I found an honest politican
A man I can't deprave
With no signs of stray ambition
I walked right past his grave

So are you posting your poems in segments now? I mean, honestly, was this worth its own thread?

That is the whole poem you s***stain.

Show me where law says poems have to be atleast 'ye' long.

You really are dense huh?

I really hate to hop on the SAJN-poem-hating bandwagon, and that is in no way my intention. However, I feel that I should give my honest opinion of this poem. It can be summed up thusly:

Hurr hurrr :downs:

You got me figured out.

But you obviously couldn't figure out what I was trying to imply (rather indiscreetly may I add) in my post.

LOOK FOR THE HIDDEN MEANING POETRY MASTER

The meaning isnt hidden. It's pretty obvious. The only politician you can trust is a dead one.

It's clever. It isn't mind changing.

It kind of.. wasn't clever at all?

The fact that you just called your own poem clever (when it isn't) is why i felt the need to comment in my previous post.

No, trust me, it's blaringly obvious your skills at poetry are horrid. There's no hidden meaning, in fact there's no meaning except for a vague "**** the government" sentimentality which might have had some validation if it was more than 20 words.

I'm talking about my post SAJN.

Once again, however, basic english is over your head.

Micropoetry or doggerelism? We'll never know.

Yoshi, have you ever contributed anything positive to massassi at all? Seriously, go drink bleach.

Ludwig Mies van der Rohe must be rolling in his grave to every time his ideology of "less is more" gets abused. Because the design of the poem is reduced to essentially embodying one message in one way in the quickest amount of words possible, it doesn't get points of being raw or pure. The shortness of your poem doesn't allow it to manifest any idea in a interesting profound way but instead it builds up to nothing. Once you essentially understand the idea of (good politician = dead), there is essentially no point to read the writing again, which is a bad quality because a poem so short should easily lend itself to second readings.

Here's an idea. If you going to write such a short poem, at least take the time to write a much longer one and play with the fundamentals to what you are saying until you can establish a composition that require less words but loses no message. Trying to shoot for a "short poem" and essentially attempting to jam as much of your ideas in such a small, limited context does not allow you any creative growth (just another experience of adapting to a shallow overhead). And here's another idea consider: stop posting your work. Instead, why not not make a personal, private collection of your writings and let them settle onto you until even you grow tired of their presence. Refer to each other and string a network of influence with each piece so you establish a growth overall of your writing. I assume even time you post a poem, you just say to yourself "oh, that's good!" and don't bother looking into it again after you aborted to the internet.

If you took a page of Ludwig Mies van der Rohe's playbook, aka "Mr. Less is More", he overdesigned his works until he could take whatever intriguing elements he discovered and focused upon them.

But it doesn't matter because my post will probably get ignored.

Pretty much a more thorough breakdown of my post(s). Just because it's not what you want to hear SAJN doesn't mean that it's not true.

A lot of well established poets (usually poetry slam artists, def poetry entrants, et al) and even musical artists will throw their **** together time and time again with multiple strings of influences and allusions so that you get the message not necessarily through just the words of the poem itself, but through discovering the allusions and the influences therein. See: Sage Francis primarily, Mos Def is a great example as well, hell just watch Def Poetry Jam until your eyes are glazed and your mind numbed (I estimate approximately 3.82 seconds, as it seems that's how you write your poetry) and learn from it. If you want to grow as an artist and want to find your voice truly, it helps more than anything else to look to other peoples' works.

In essence: thank you Echoman for summating my ideas in a much nicer, more presentable and more cogent argument.

You're post isn't ignored, but it's to each his own. I write long poems people complain they are too long, I write serious poems and people complain that my poems are too deep, and then I write comedic poems and people complain that poetry shouldn't be silly. As for the brevity of it, I'm not looking for people to read it over and over. I don't care about that. It's meant to be amusing, and then that's it. You move on with your day. It's not a masterpiece, it's not a limerick, but it's more like a limerick than anything. I'm so sick and tired of hearing what 'poetry' is supposed to be. Poetry is about expression, and I spend a lot of time on my poems, I don't just s*** them out like an Irish woman having kids. But I do post a lot of them in a short time period, because I wait until I have a lot of them ready and then I release them.

The other reason I don't take a lot of massassi's opinions seriously, is that it's always the same few jokers being pricks, and just f***ing off anything I post. I post on plenty of other forums where people enjoy and look forward to my poems. These aren't little kids, these aren't brain dead people. Other people understand that poetry is personal, and as long as it's what the writer is feeling, its genuine, and that's all a person can ask for. I've read poems at various open mics and events, and people enjoy them. People laugh, people applaude, people come up to me after I read to tell me they enjoyed it.

I write because I feel compelled to. It isn't about being artsy, it isn't about being cool. I write because I write. That's it. I post my work here because I post my work everywhere, and I like to get varied opinions. I'm not looking for all positive reviews on my work, but when I come here it's the same two or three people just having a s*** fest and making stupid, ignorant, and useless comments.

You guys also act like I don't read any poetry. I own about 40 poetry books, and I am constantly taking more out from my library. I live on this stuff.

As for waiting a while and letting my poetry 'stew'. I do that. I've written a lot over the years that I end up hating later. But I still realize that at the time I wrote those poems they were what I was feeling, so I still respect them, even if I've outgrown certain aspects of them. I think I've written about 70 poems over the past two years, looking back, maybe 30 of them are poems I'd still read at events. But it's just writing in general, that I love. And a bunch of immature comments aimed at just being cruel, hateful, and nothing but garbage, aren't going to stop me from writing when myself along with so many others enjoy what I do.

...

there was a kid called sajn master
he was a poem writing home wrecking disaster
his governmental rants
"are great!" he chants
the kid couldnt post any faster

first poem i ever rote

No, because you miss it still. The point is, you're ****ting up the showcase forums with, and I count, 3 ****ing poem threads within 2 weeks. Now, why can't you just, at the least, make one thread and keep updating it? Even when I try to give a true crit you just brush it off as me "being an ***". Which, don't get me wrong, I am trying to get you to either shut it or stop cluttering the showcase (where there's other stuff WORTH looking at).

Also, you keep talking about kids wanting to see your poetry and looking forward to it but I'm yet to see it. In general, people don't give a **** about GOOD poetry, because people like you throw it around like it's something deep and personal and "nobody understands you" (not a quote from you), but in reality it's just a ****ty, misbegotten form of self-expression and art that's been violated over the centuries. Much like how most abstract art is just white noise on paper/canvas.

Now, if you think it's great and you love it, that's fine. But we don't need to hear about it everytime you come up with something you think is great. If there's anyone who really cares, I'm sure they'll take the time to rifle through your own personal thread. As for me, I consider myself a fairly accomplished poet (and though I've posted it on here before, trust me, it's nowhere near a tenth of the volume of poetry floating around in my head), and I think it's horrible. I've never once seen anyone describe your poetry as "too deep" because there is no such thing. If it were deep we wouldn't be bashing it in the first place. However, I can guarantee you you'd get about 2000% less criticism if you, at the very least, didn't diarrhea it all over the showcase thread like it was your personal livejournal.

how does one clutter an empty forum?

ask the op

his cryptic depths are too much for this poster to take in

Seriously doubt this.

Thanks for that rousing intelectual comment Rob. It added a lot to the thread, and you should feel pretty good about that comment. It gave off a good vibe. Don't you think? Yeah. Awesome!

SAJN, the open mics you've been to, did they have people playing music too?

At any of the poetry open mics I've been to, your work would've been mildly applauded as one of the many "I made this poem for class" readers. At any of our slams, you may have barely made it into the second round, but likely would've only got to read a single poem.

You read that 5 paragraph essay Echoman posted for you? He's absolutely, 100% correct. You ignored his entire post, giving half-robbed reasons why you know all of that. For some reason, you seem to think that because people attack you, that their entire opinion is invalidated. Because only 3 or 4 people (bother) to show you that your poetry isn't as "clever" or "insightful" as you think it is, they're 'just trying to get to you.'

When it comes right down to it, you should probably just stop pretending to be a poet. You're good at form, and that's about it. If you were willing to grow and expand as a poet, join a writing circle, accept criticism, you might be able to develop a voice. I doubt it.

You sound like my writing students who complain when I offer criticism "I can write whatever I want. Isn't poetry what you make it? I think this is poetry, so it must be poetry!" It's a common cry of bad poets. "I don't know how to write good poetry, so whenever someone criticizes me, I'm going to cry artistic merit."

Thanks for the rousing fit of internet wahhh, it added alot to the value of your poopsock poetry.

Ludwig Mies Van Der Rohe

Now you're the cool silent type artist. I get it.

Wow bitterness. I bet you all wouldn't be that way if he had terminal cancer. Would that make him a better artist? lol

No. I don't think even terminal cancer would make him a better artist.

Dead horse.

Am I an ******* because F-Body reminded me of someone?

I think that's what he was going for.

This.

SAJN, your poetry really is bad. You're arrogant and blinded by your own self-indulgence. Get over yourself.

My poetry really isn't bad. There isn't any blind following or arrogance. People enjoy my poetry, and even if they didn't I would continue to write. Good isn't defined by you elitist few. I take the opinions of my poetry, english, and writing teachers over you. And I take the opinions of complete strangers who walk up to me just to let me know they deeply enjoyed my poems over you. You have a track record of being an elitist jerk, why should I be taking your advice?

Teachers aren't going to tell you that you suck. Unless it's a poetry class at a university, and even then, most probably don't care enough to tell you. Not to mention that most high school English teachers are hardly experts on poetry. Most don't even have degrees in English. Take a 500 level poetry or creative writing class in college and see how you hold up there.


This is your problem. You are judging our comments based on our personality and not based on content.

I haven't provided any real feedback to you in a long time because you have a serious track record of ignoring it, plugging your ears and yelling "NANANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."

Why do you keep coming here and defending yourself if you know your poetry isn't bad? They don't like it; if you're not going to listen to their criticism, let it go.

I major in video/screenwriting and I minor in English.

And? Your merits don't match your marks. Your poetry teachers are being nice, are likely saturated with all of the horrible poetry, or are simply unfamiliar with the modern poetry scene.

Youtube "Poetry Slam." Youtube "Billy Collins." I'll copy paste some poems for you when I get back from a party. If you can genuinely claim that you have the same grasp on poetry as people who are at the top of the poetry food chain (or are just widely accepted as high poetry), then your eyes and ears are closed to criticism.

Really, if you just started accepting our criticism, and were willing to attempt becoming a better writer, you might suddenly be amazed at what magical doors will open. When you can look at your own writing, can see a point that someone (even someone you don't like) makes, and can recognize how to improve the way your writing is perceived, you have become a true poet, even if you still don't write excellent stuff.

Right now you try to claim that writing itself makes you a good writer. Your poetry has to prove it to us, not what your friends say about it.

Giving serious thought to criticism that you first instincts tell you is bull**** can really only help you.

A month or two ago at a mid-project review in Architecture studio, I got some negative responses to some design decisions, responses which I thought were unfounded, but because I was willing to at least think about it, I ended up reconsidering several important things and making serious changes for the better. Even if the comments I got were crap, they led to me improving the design. All I'm saying is, maybe Emon and Kirby are being douchewagglers, and maybe not, but either way, they've given you a decent opportunity to scrutinize some aspects of your writing. You might be pleased at the results of changes you consider :).