Guy: What’s your opinion on today’s society?

BSG: That's a vague and generalized question

Guy: On how everything is fucking governed by rich snots and pompous teenagers

BSG: Don't generalize. "Everything" is certainly not fucked up.

Guy: I’m talking about trash MTV shows like Laguna Beach

BSG: So you don't like Laguna Beach?  Neither do I.  This is our opinion.

Guy: I’m just curious the massassian community has enlightened and evolved me for years. ya in some ways I am still immature

BSG: I think, instead of being offended, angry, or upset with the things we dislike, we should instead help things we like prosper.  That way we can hopefully encourage more people to understand it.

Guy: What I’m trying to do is spread enlightenment. Unbrainwash society

BSG: Laguna Beach is a horrifyingly shallow show full of stupidity, and sub reality of a tiny demographic of humankind.

Guy: and 78% of my country is obsessed with it and try to emulate it

Guy: Finally, Someone agrees with me

BSG: BUT YOU are not the person to define enlightenment.  That's the thing.

Guy: True

BSG: However enlightened you and I may feel, we aren't the ones who decide what is "right" for people.

Guy: Only God knows true enlightenment which none of us will ever accomplish in this life time

Guy: I still believe we can fight though

BSG: I can find a far better cause to talk about than my country watching the OC.

BSG: LB and the OC aren't the problem here:  It's our consumer society, and our lack of scope.

Guy: I’m so sick of seeing preps and people in high positions abuse others because there different

Guy: I’m targeting LB and the OC because there both an influence

BSG: Nope. Influence is NOT the word.  They're products.

Guy: Me and my [friends] (and here comes my immaturity part) have been leading an incursion on Laguna Beach via myspace. We phished latterly the entire fucking fan base 

BSG: You have to remember:  Boys don't rape girls because they think women are inferior:  They're a product of their growing up "knowing" that women are weaker than men. [A note:  That isn’t to say that it makes them right:  I’m saying that, if you’re looking for the cause, don’t look to their personal opinions.]

Guy: ya

BSG: Our society isn't affected by the OC. If anything, it's perpetuated.  The OC is a PRODUCT of our society.  The OC isn't bad, our society is.  The OC itself is harmless.

Guy: then what is societies influence besides money

Guy: well Laguna Beach the show is offensive in my opinion

BSG: Horribly!  But it's harmless.  It's no more powerful than Grand Theft Auto is

Guy: That’s a damn awesome game

BSG: The problem is what these things come from.

Guy: But Laguna Beach has its followers

Guy: and sadly, that’s a good percent of this country

BSG: But these "followers" would follow anything. Our ability to follow is the problem, not the show. The show doesn't preach, or control, or even threaten.  The show does nothing to people, and only shows a stupid life of stupid rich kids.  People that subject themselves to it and like to think that they're supposed to look like that are the problem

Guy: In my opinion I think the show is the problem. Society must have an inspiration and anything that’s popular like MTV seems to be it. And sadly school is no longer about education anymore

BSG: The show NEVER forces anything on anyone

Guy: true

BSG: But think about it, were it not the OC and LB, what would it be?  In every situation, we have to look to the source, not the cause.

Guy: But it’s still offensive. These rich kids have arrogance they think they have drama when in reality there’s children starving in 3rd world countries.

BSG: And you're sitting on your internet in your suburb with your 50 dollar mouse. The difference is that you're conscience of it, they're not.

BSG: Again, you're blaming the show, not the people.  If we were aware of our privilege, the OC would be a perfectly fine show to watch.

Guy: then what should I blame

BSG: You're looking for someone to blame is your first problem.

Guy: there has to be at least SOMEONE responsible for society being as brain washed as it is

BSG: Blame doesn't help solve the problem.  If you have to blame anyone, blame it all.  Everything plays a part, and to claim one single thing is a problem is silly.  This is not a microcosmic problem. This isn't perpetuated by one or two things.  Don't worry about people who aren't thinking about third world countries:  WORRY ABOUT THE THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES.  If we spend all of our time trying to change people, we won't do a thing.

Guy: you have a point

BSG: Your little phishing scam could have instead been e-mails relating the OC and LB to our lack of awareness, and how we take our privilege for granted.  Guilt is a horrible thing:  We shouldn't feel guilty that we can do what we want.  We should know our privilege, and ask if we need everything we have.  How can we help others?

Guy: and even if me and my [friends] manage to destroy MTV and its propaganda it will always have something to take the place and fill the void. But sometimes in my opinion we do need to worry about our own people since they are the future of this country. Change the way they think.

BSG: What will shape the future more:  Pissed off American kids that think people are trying to blame them for 3rd world hunger, or a nation where 70% of young people go on a trip to 3rd world countries to help build homes?

BSG: You. Cannot. Change. The. Way. People. Think.  Stop trying to. You'll never succeed, I promise.

Guy: You have a point

BSG: You simply make your ideas known, and make them successful, and make them work.  If you're successful with your ideas, more people will be interested.  Hell, look at recycling:  Worst cause in American history.  Has cost us billions of dollars, and has contributed to our world's level of pollution:  But EVERYONE thinks recycling is the best thing ever.  Why?

Guy: because it has a point to it

BSG: Because blue bins, school causes, and a lack of forcing it on people made it "the easy and right thing to do"

BSG: If every single high school raised money, not to go to the state fair every year, but to instead to Indonesia?

Guy: then this would be a better place

BSG: If there was a consistent, easily accessible, simple means of going to a different country and helping out:  Would people do it?  BSG: Do you think that Laguna Beach kids would do it?  Never mind what they'd think

Guy: but sadly things are hardly like that only few strive for that

Guy: Doubt it

BSG: I think you'd be surprised

Guy: I’ve been in there email accounts there’s only one who has been. And that’s dieter. Except his charity goes out to suicidal teens

BSG: I think you'd be VERY surprised. Think about it: Easy access, everyone's doing it, and it's "the right thing to do."  These kids want to be popular, be considered good people, and want to pretend like they care about little people.  I don't care what their attitude is:  If they're on a bus to build houses in Africa:  They're useful 2 legs and hands.

Guy: Popular is irrelevant in my opinion

BSG: In your opinion.  Stop thinking that matters to anyone else. That sounds cold, but no one cares.  People are about themselves.  Popularity matters to our society. Call that good or bad:  It does.  If we have to use that flaw to do good things:  So be it.



-Extra stuff about religion-



BSG: We're too caught up in this meta-life.

Guy: meta-life??

BSG: Meta Life.  How much of what you do or need is useful?

Guy: not much.  I’m more after spiritual enlightenment

BSG: Were we just a little more conservative, in that we need to use everything we have to it's fullest, not waste ideas, objects, or resources and mostly, not waste EACHOTHER; We'd be a lot better off

Guy: heh I can easily agree with that.  Everything today has become so fucking regulated

BSG: Let me ask you this:  The company owner that goes with the brand name shoes that are a penny cheaper to make because they're made in a penny cheaper sweat shop:  Does he go home and pinch a penny out of each and everything he owns?  Does he drink slightly soured milk to save money?  Does he use the cheapest products he can find? No. He's frugal with his business, but throws money away daily. We say things like:  It'd cost SO much to send food over seas. Then we say that we're running out of food. You know WHY we're “running out of food?” Because I threw away half of 3 meals today

Guy: Because people conserve it for themselves and yea we’ve become wasteful

BSG: Because I'm feeling sort of sick I bought far more food than I needed today.

A very large piece of pizza (That I told the lady was too big, and I'd waste it).  A large plate of nachos and cheese and salsa and lots of little dips:  I ate half of it, and because it was soggy, threw it away. We're wasteful people:  Each one of us.

Guy: were all flawed as humans. That’s what makes us human

BSG: But the problem isn't us.  It's our society.  It's what we have.

Guy: I’m sort of proud of being flawed to be honest

BSG: We cook an entire pizza because we found that it's best to have food already to go for delivery than to have to make the whole thing before delivering it:  People like it fast, and they like it convenient.

Guy: I confess to ordering pizzas and sometimes hardly ever finish the whole box

BSG: We buy more than we need because we want to have exactly how much we want.  We won't settle for "Eh, I could've eaten another half of a piece."  We get 2 pieces.  Because we have the money, we spend it. We're raised to think that, because we have it, we can spend it. And we CAN, but does that mean we SHOULD!? You shouldn't feel bad about not spending money, either.

Guy: I wouldn’t know to be honest. 

BSG: I know people, myself included, that can justify some pretty stupid things because we can afford it.

Guy: finally someone has over enlightened me. I’m already feeling like I’ve taken a brainload haven’t had that feeling in along time but that’s very good

BSG: Heh, Glad I could make you think. Don't call it enlightenment, though: Ideas change.

Guy: what should I call it then?

BSG: Thinking. I made you think. Even if I changed you:  YOU own the changes, no me. And to say that it's towards the "Right" way to think is assuming a correct path. And if there's a correct path, that assumes we're all the same

Guy: When I feel a brainload that means by brain is expanding. The more it expands the better. I’ve been looking up to astronomy compared to the endless universe to the size of the earth all of us are irrelevant

BSG: And that's ludicrous

Guy: I’ve been getting into stuff related as that ^^^^^^

BSG: Just look at learning as a way to test the water. If you get in, you're not getting into the water the same way I do.  You're playing in the pool differently than me. Yeah, I convinced you to test the water, but you're jumping in for your own reasons.  And to say "It's hot, so being in the pool is enlightenment for hot people.  Being in the pool for any other reason than cooling down isn't enlightenment." Is silly

Guy: oh I thought enlightenment was really trying to figure out the purpose of life and I already have my own opinion that this life is just a trial. Gods way of filtering out the bad to see who’s worthy that’s why I really don’t fear death  Guy: So in life do you fight society or go with it or be reclusive?

BSG: You don't fight anything but your own tides, I think. The only tides you should fight that aren't your own are when someone asks you to help them fight their own tides. So, “Do you fight society?”  For yourself:  Yes.  From what you've told me, YOU want to fight society. For anyone else:  No.  That's offensive.

Guy: Ya, I want to fight society even if it’s immature or not

BSG: It doesn't come down to maturity.

Guy: Laguna Beach pisses me off so much.......

BSG: It comes down to what good it'll do. Futility.

Guy: Society in general

BSG: It's Futile to "fix" Laguna Beach.  The show isn't causing the problem.

Guy: Pisses me off so much. Bleh I'd rather put an end to it rather than fix it

BSG: That's selfish.

Guy: And more than LB I'd like to put an end to our growing dystopian society

BSG: And doesn't help the people that you claim the show controls. And that, too, is selfish. We live in a world of choice. For you to say these things is to tie your own noose. Were everyone given the power you want to have, we'd have anarchy. To assume yourself enlightened is frightening. YOU are not the person who should judge Laguna Beach.

Guy: I’m no where NEAR enlightened

BSG: But you're saying that you're smart enough to know what's good for other people. That you know that Laguna Beach isn't good for people.

Guy: the fact that I am striking against people I don’t know is wrong and I don’t. I may think I do but I don’t. Okay I THINK it’s not good for people and I have a lot of belief in that

BSG: Neither do I. I think it's a stupid show that speaks about .000000001% of the WORLDS population. And I think its prejudice. Pure prejudice. What we call prejudice today is just something that offends us. And that's silly. People like the KKK are TRYING to offend you. That isn't racism:  That's attention whoring.

Guy: I think the whole concept of lower middle upper-class is pure racism, and how people judge one another because of it. Oh and believe it or not, most of the teens on the show live in middle class families. We’ve made "Alliances" with a few of them

BSG: Laguna Beach is prejudice because it shows the perfect lifestyle to be white, born into a rich family, living in a paradise, and defines success as these things. But guess what?

BSG: Laguna Beach is a television show.  It doesn't spend money.  It doesn't consume and consume and consume.  It doesn't waste everything that it's given.  It doesn't live off of the backs of Africa and Asia.  It's a television show. You're fighting the wrong cause if you want to make change. Want Laguna Beach to stop being aired?  Give people better awareness about where their clothes come from.

Guy: Maybe but I want to still continue to fight it off of my own emotion

BSG: Help people understand a different definition of success

Guy: Ill do that as well

BSG: Define a different set of morals

BSG: Guess what? You do that:  More than just the OC and LB will go away. And you'll have helped solve the problem, not further your jealousy for bad TV. And it's jealousy.  Whether you want to admit it:  It's jealousy that such a stupid and unthoughtful idea that preaches hate and prejudice is on television. To see something that ISN'T your idea is on TV. Jealousy isn't a bad thing always.  What I'm saying is that acting on jealousy is ignoring the problem at hand. Jealousy can be very unhealthy if it's the foundation to an argument:  It won't hold up, and it won't solve anything. Jealousy promotes elitism. And terrorism.

Guy: Ya wow....... Well out of my Jealousy and anger I want to see the show and the people on it come down

BSG: And that's silly, irrational, self centered and very American of you.

Guy: very human of me. I’m flawed I realize it. 

BSG: Your domination complex is no different than that of the kids on the show.  They feel just as justified as you do in what they do. No.  Humanity does not dominate.  That isn't a human flaw:  Stop using that as an excuse.

Guy: I don’t want to dominate anything I just want to destroy it and get on with my life

BSG: It bothers me listening to you repeatedly justify your actions with the "Whelp, I'm flawed."

Guy: I’m also doing this for other personal reasons

BSG: That's arrogance, and makes you no better than the people you dislike.

Guy: Hell yeah I know what I’m doing is wrong, but I’m going to do it anyway

BSG: THAT'S stupidity. And you're showing what kind of a person you are. Which is a part of this problem to begin with.

Guy: well then I’m stupid in that case!

BSG: You're being arrogant, egotistical, and hateful. And it's a waste of my time. Goodnight.

Guy: night this has gotten me think though