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View Full Version : Things we need for JO that would make me feel a lot better



Rogue12
03-31-2002, 10:00 AM
Alright, here is a short list of things that somebody ought to make for JO to make me feel at home with it.
1. Jed-style editor (Raven, you're a great person I'm sure, your editor will certainly be great, but I'll still be sad if it's nothing like Jed)
2. New-and-improved Patch Commander with JO-patching capabilities
3. JO-compatible ConMan
4. MatMaster-type converter for JO skin editing
5. Some of those classic JK levels/mods that would be even greater in JO: JHS, Drazen Isle, Bar and Grill, Baron's Hed, the grappling hook mod, War, Sub's super weapons, etc.

Well, this is just my personal opinion. Some of these things may not even be necessayr, I'm just saying I'd feel more at home with JO if it kept more aspects of my good ol' friend JK. All this new stuff that I'll have to learn makes me nervous, and if it was more like the good old days, I'd feel better.

Thrawn[numbarz]
03-31-2002, 10:04 AM
Yeah, some of it isn't necessary.

1. Yeah, you're right.
2. We don't need one, JO already has a mod-activating thingummy http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif
3. Nope, pk3's are really zips in disquise.
4. JO uses tgas and jpegs, so we shouldn't need one.
5. YES! http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

Rogue12
03-31-2002, 10:09 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Thrawn42689:
Yeah, some of it isn't necessary.

1. Yeah, you're right.
2. We don't need one, JO already has a mod-activating thingummy http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif
3. Nope, pk3's are really zips in disquise.
4. JO uses tgas and jpegs, so we shouldn't need one.
5. YES! http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif</font>

3&4. Interesting, and you're right...well, that'll save time and energy.

Home_Sliced
03-31-2002, 10:57 AM
1. Prepare for disappointment (Radiant isn't that hard to learn, don't worry)
5. Up to the authors of the levels...I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a few remakes

moneyobie
03-31-2002, 11:08 AM
Get PakScape; it works as a compiler/extractor for pk3 format.

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Cease, and Decease.

Kenshin_shadow
03-31-2002, 11:40 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Home_Sliced:
1. Prepare for disappointment (Radiant isn't that hard to learn, don't worry)
5. Up to the authors of the levels...I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a few remakes</font>

where do you get Radiant? i wanna start learning how to do level editing for JO

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A martial artist must be willing to risk it all...
but why this battle?! and why do they have to risk it all?!

bradsh
03-31-2002, 12:25 PM
IT IS NOT OUT YET

Ron1jed
03-31-2002, 01:29 PM
dranzel isle!

DaSalvador
03-31-2002, 03:14 PM
Actually, as far as a Con Man equivalent there is PakScape which will allow you to explore PK3 files.

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http://members.aol.com/DaSalvador/dssiggie.jpg

JM
03-31-2002, 04:18 PM
Or you could use... Winzip! Gasp!

Roger Spruce
03-31-2002, 06:59 PM
Raven. Isn't. A person.

JASRCC_Uber0010
04-01-2002, 05:01 AM
What?! Are you sure? Well then WHO made the game?

lightside
04-01-2002, 09:29 AM
I'm sorry, but this is one funny-@$$ post. I laughed so freakin' hard when I read it at first. http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

Rogue, you must learn how to edit the Q3 engine....get a little knowledge of it, then you won't have to worry about wanting all of the things you asked for.

Aglar
04-01-2002, 09:49 AM
CONSPIRACY!

Is_907
04-01-2002, 01:22 PM
to whoever started this thread:
YOU CAN NOT USE A JED STYLE EDITOR ON A BRUSH BASED ENGINE! =)
JED worked in JK because JK's engine is vertex-based whereas most next-gen engines (q3ta) is brush-based rendering.

so quit complaining about a new editor and thank the Radiant gods for a wonderful program =P

Rogue12
04-01-2002, 01:41 PM
I'd like to point out that I know very little of this new level editor (as in who's making it...all I heard was "radiant's making a level editor for it, should be out within a week or two" once so it's reasonable to assume it's some fellow from the JK community much as how Jed was made). The "raven" instead of "radiant" was an error from the fact that I have very little knowledge of this upcoming editor. Also, as far as saying you couldn't make a Jed-style editor for it: as I've already made clear, I DON'T KNOW MUCH OF ANYTHING ON HOW IT WORKS OR I WOULD BE MAKING AN EDITOR OF MY OWN. "Brush based engine"...of course, a brush based engine! If I had any knowledge whatsoever of how JO ran I'd be making an editor myself, as already stated....back off. Additionally, I'd like to say that mostly my desire for a JO editor more like Jed stems from my distaste for the massive hype around Quake and its sequels, and the games themselves. Basically, I wish JO ran on its own engine and not someone else's so that all the Quake people I know can't rub it in my face. I appreciated JK more because it was wholly its own game with its own independent system that I was familiar and comfortable with, and not another spawn of Quake or Tribes or some other games that, while having their own merit, aren't my kind of games. I prefer less focus on simple exploding guts and gore (though I'm all about occasional guts and gore) and more focus on a thoroughly developed environment in a galaxy far, far away. I started out as a Star Wars fan, not a FPS fan. To date, FPSs are my second-least favorite genre of games. Finally, I'll say that my reason my main reason for being apprehensive of a Q3-style editor is that I've already tried getting into Unreal Tournament and Q3 and Tribes editing, and their editors (while perhaps being simpler to learn) didn't feel like home to me. So depending on the editor when it comes out, I may or may not decide to stick back with JK editing while the rest of you move on to this new, gorgeous JO.

Is_907
04-01-2002, 01:58 PM
hehe... gotta love flaming the newbies =D

Rogue12
04-01-2002, 02:13 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Is_907:
hehe... gotta love flaming the newbies =D</font>

Newbies...bah...I've been editing JK since, oh, before you were born. Well, not that long, but it's been two years. So strip me of your respect for me, strip me of my self confidence, but don't think I haven't been doing this for two years, and coming to Massassi daily for at least a year. I just haven't learned anything while I'm here. More appropriately, I haven't acquired any real knowledge on anything besides JK, not even JO.

JM
04-01-2002, 02:20 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">to whoever started this thread:
YOU CAN NOT USE A JED STYLE EDITOR ON A BRUSH BASED ENGINE! =)
JED worked in JK because JK's engine is vertex-based whereas most next-gen engines (q3ta) is brush-based rendering.
so quit complaining about a new editor and thank the Radiant gods for a wonderful program =P

</font>

What the hell is a vertex based engine?

That said, When you talk about sectors and brushes, the actually rendering process is amazingly similiar. The big difference is in how it's built and stored in the file.
Q3 uses bsp clusters and portals. It doesn't render brushes, it renders triangles. JK uses sectors and portals. It doesn't render sectors, it renders triangles. A sector is a collection of faces. A bsp cluster is a collection of faces.

Odd, isn't it?

Is_907
04-01-2002, 05:34 PM
hehe... before I was born, eh?
well, i've been in the community and editing JK since 1998. =)

anyways, Radiant is a VERY easy editor to learn... i've been using it on and off lately and it's pretty easy to pick up. just put your mind to it.

and about the "flaming newbies" comment... don't take it seriously. it's just what all the "old wise men" of the gaming communities do to the "young, inexperienced ones" =D

Matthew Pate
04-02-2002, 07:50 AM
Oh yeah!? Well you'll never guess how big [i]mine[i/] is!

Is_907
04-02-2002, 05:43 PM
haha JM, thanks for clarifying that for all the n00bs... I was gone for the weekend and wasn't able to check this thread.

(btw, I meant to say sector based not vertex... but it's been FOREVER since I was editing JK)

Midget Basher
04-04-2002, 05:30 PM
Rogue12:
You said that you would make your own editor if you knew something about the engine. I find that to be quite humorous. You apparently believe that the only knowled required to create a fully functional editor is a basic knowledge of how the files are stored? If you really posessed the capabilities to create a fully functional level editor, I would be very surprised. If you really posessed the full capability to create a level editor, with the exception of knowing the file format that the levels are saved in, then you've got a pretty pathetic excuse. At least stick with something more traditional like "I'm too lazy" or "I don't have the time."

JM:
There actually is a big difference in how things are rendered in a brush based engine than in a sector based engine. In a sector based engine, all the surfaces in a sector, even the ones that are "adjoined" to another sector are rendered. The surfaces that are "adjoined" are rendered in a manner similar to a runtime updated texture, in that the color passed as the texel color comes from a rendering of the sector beyond, and not a texture file. In a brush based engine, BSP trees are used to determine both visibility and collisions. They map what is viewable from particular segments of space. You are therefore wrong, the fact that they both render triangles is a superficial similarity. There are major differences between the two types of rendering engines.

frequent
04-05-2002, 05:18 PM
Generaly the Q3 Engine is powerfull. U can make anykind of athmosphere! "Not only killing scenes" Ok, i must say the editing is harder! And many Commands are un-commented!! - I try to re-make old tools like ConMan, MatEdit, so people see that the old times not dies! but I can`t remake JED!!! this is to haaaaaaaard!!!. http://forums.massassi.net/html/redface.gif I tell you about my remakes soon!!!! http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif

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Spend your free time with Bowling!!! If not download JED ;)

Admiral Mouse
04-06-2002, 01:28 AM
Radiant is easy to learn. I've used alot of game editors over the years (Build, UnrealED, JED, WorldCraft, Serious Editor, etc) and I can honestly say that Radiant is the easiest. It's the MS Paint of editors for ease-of-use, and the Adobe Photoshop of editors for power and features -does that make any sense?

People who walk away from Radiant saying "I don't like it, it's too difficult", shouldn't even be trying to use such a tool.

It seems daunting at first, when I loaded up Radiant for the first time I thought "oh my god, you must be joking", but just follow a few tutorials through and you'll feel right at home.

I'm adamant that a Q3-powered title is the best thing to ever happen to the JK series.

When we finally get our hands on JORadiant we're gonna see some absolutely amazing maps made from it. I can't wait, http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif

UGG
04-06-2002, 02:38 AM
1. Never going to happen. Maybe the other Quake editors (probably Quark) will support Outcast, but for now you're stuck with Radiant. Cheer up! It's not that bad. http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif

2. I'll see if I can work this into my custom launcher, but like Thrawn said, Outcast has a good "mod-activating thingummy" already. http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif

3. Maybe, but there are already heaps of PK3 editors, as well as WinZip and PKZip.

4. I think dr0id's plugin can convert MAT to TGA, and JKPaint will soon support TGA and JPG.

BTW, what happened to OutpostD34? It and dr0id's site are gone! http://forums.massassi.net/html/eek.gif

5. Maybe, but they had better spend some time making new 24-bit textures. Otherwise, it will look cheap and nasty next to the Outcast textures.