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ECHOMAN
05-30-2004, 06:27 PM
How was French titled the "language of love?" Is it because of the tone of the voice, Paris, Hollywood or something?

I guess the language can have a smoothing, relaxed, romantic tone to it. But then I guess any other languages, German, English so on, can be used in a "charming" fashion.

So, where did the saying come from? Is French the language of love?

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Correction
05-30-2004, 06:28 PM
There are alot of languages that fall into the romance language category.

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Em Playa
05-30-2004, 06:29 PM
latin = romance language.

french, spanish, and english are derived from latin.

french sounds the sexiest outta them.

so french = language of love

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Correction
05-30-2004, 06:32 PM
I actually took french and it makes me want to hurl more than it turns me on, though...

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Connection Problem
05-30-2004, 06:33 PM
That's because you knew english first. English is one of the most poorly built languages ever.

Correction
05-30-2004, 06:36 PM
that's why it rox http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

no, really it's not that I knew english first. I think I just have weird taste... personally I think russian is the coolest sounding language ever. I want to learn russian so bad :O

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Do you have stairs in your house?

[This message has been edited by Correction (edited May 30, 2004).]

Connection Problem
05-30-2004, 06:38 PM
Personally, I love the language, hate the class. http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

^talking about french^

Dormouse
05-30-2004, 06:44 PM
Romance == Romans/Romanesque. Italian, Spanish, Romanian, and French. And variations thereof.

English is rather more Anglo-Saxon [same root as German], than Romance per se, but it has very strong latin/greek influences.

I think it's supposed to be the language of love because of all the kissy-faces you make when youre pronouncing it.

And yes, Russian > *
I'll be taking it again this coming term.

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[This message has been edited by Dormouse (edited May 30, 2004).]

cazor
05-30-2004, 06:45 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Connection Problem:
That's because you knew english first. English is one of the most poorly built languages ever.</font>

Hahaha. the irony.



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-Monoxide-
05-30-2004, 06:46 PM
French, a language of love? Oh I just thought It was the language of women with hairy pits.

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Member of the Minneassian Council

[This message has been edited by -Monoxide- (edited May 30, 2004).]

Pagewizard_YKS
05-30-2004, 06:58 PM
I love zee french language, especially to curse with....its like wiping your a** with silk......

[/merovingian from reloaded]

http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif



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Em Playa
05-30-2004, 06:58 PM
chicks with accents are always a good thing

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MechWarrior
05-30-2004, 07:17 PM
I typically make love in English... what... I was supposed to make it in French... WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME THIS! DAMN IT GUYS!

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&lt;MechWarrior&gt; Lets just say the part of the family tree that does fork has bossy the goat in it.

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Kieran Horn
05-30-2004, 07:19 PM
German is the sexiest of all languages

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The sooner you realize I'm right the better off you will be.

KOP_Snake
05-30-2004, 07:24 PM
I love it when Conan O'Brien goes into a German language Hitler type rant. "DAS HUTEN EIN SCHLAUSSEN HISSEN DISSEN NEIN SCHREI DEUSSEN".

Something like that, one of the funniest things ever. I have no idea what any of it means though

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"Guns don't kill people, I kill people."

Correction
05-30-2004, 07:25 PM
are you talking about his arnold impression http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif

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Do you have stairs in your house?

dalf
05-30-2004, 07:44 PM
Français.. La langue d'amour? Pourquoi pas.

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Correction
05-30-2004, 07:50 PM
Je vais vomir :x

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Do you have stairs in your house?

KOP_Snake
05-30-2004, 07:54 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Correction:
are you talking about his arnold impression http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif

</font>

No, this was like a tirade of German words animated in such a way like an old Hitler speech video. Its funny as hell.

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"Guns don't kill people, I kill people."

JJPSX
05-30-2004, 11:19 PM
Correction and I share the same tastes, obviously. I want to learn Russian too. I dislike French. I honestly think it sounds awful. Like, HORRIBLE. And I hate how it seems like half the letters in a word are silent.

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Daeron the Nerfherder
05-31-2004, 12:47 AM
I love the way that the Senegalese, Somalians, and Algerians pronounce their French. It loses most of it's finesse and immediately it becomes almost indecipherable.

fishstickz
05-31-2004, 12:48 AM
I always liked french canadian myself, it has sort of that "everyman" sound that you dont get while in France.

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"Just remember -- No matter how bad things get, Northern Minnesota will always be there"
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Flexor
05-31-2004, 01:36 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dormouse:
English is rather more Anglo-Saxon [same root as German], than Romance per se, but it has very strong latin/greek influences.
</font>

Indeed. I think it's safe to say that english is a bunch of butchered up languages put together with no rules. The hardest difficulty I encountered while learning english is having to get used to mis-pronouncing and misspelling french words and write them in a certain way even though the rules that determine that you're supposed to write the word that way didn't apply. O_o

They say french is a romantic language because of it's poetic complexity. Like someone mentioned earlier, half the letters in a word are silent.. but yet they all serve a purpose.

Personally, I like it because of how you can chain up cusswords in a sentence to no end. http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif

Also, I think spanish sounds more romantic. http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Jon`C
05-31-2004, 01:43 AM
All of the people who are saying that English is the worst language just don't know what they're talking about. English has roots as an artificial language which combines French (what the nobles spoke) with several common Englishes. Queen's English was developed because the inconsistency between *villages* was injuring the ability to communicate.

Since then it's become the primary language for the storage of information, if only because it's so verbose - there's a word for literally everything, and generally several. And if an English word or idiom won't do, you can borrow one from another language without breaking any rules.

French is just a mutated version of Latin.

fishstickz
05-31-2004, 01:46 AM
The words of English are quite good, its the syntax and grammar rules that need work

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"Just remember -- No matter how bad things get, Northern Minnesota will always be there"
-- Garrison Keeler

Mort-Hog
05-31-2004, 02:40 AM
German is the language of rock music.

Seb
05-31-2004, 05:02 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by -Monoxide-:
French, a language of love? Oh I just thought It was the language of women with hairy pits.

</font>

Obviously you haven't ever been in Montreal, or in Quebec altogheter for that matter, we have the finest ladies, and the best version of french ever.

Oh, and Flex has the right idea, Quebec French has an endless chain of cussword possibilities, one can really tell if something's bugging you.

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I'm walking towards dead end, and I'm walking all alone. Two steps ago I passed insanity - Aleksi Laiho

[This message has been edited by Seb (edited May 31, 2004).]

Connection Problem
05-31-2004, 08:27 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cazor:
Hahaha. the irony.
</font>

????

Technically, even if there is a grammatical error, that isn't ironic... http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=irony

Nikumubeki
05-31-2004, 08:30 AM
French doesn't sound so interesting.

And English isn't IMO poorly built, it can sound cool... but then the words don't mean a thing.

Like Naval Forced Eredicator System to Unleash The Exterminal Power Atmosphere.

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&lt;landfish&gt; FastGamerr &gt; Satan

cazor
05-31-2004, 08:32 AM
english wuz here.

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[This message has been edited by Cazor (edited May 31, 2004).]

Kieran Horn
05-31-2004, 08:47 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">All of the people who are saying that English is the worst language just don't know what they're talking about.
</font>English is a horrible language because of the numerous exceptions to any given rule and the difficulty of learning it if it isn't your native tongue. Other than that, it's fine.

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The sooner you realize I'm right the better off you will be.

Sats
05-31-2004, 08:58 AM
French is a cool language, such a relaxing and soft touch.

J'aime parler le francais beaucoup http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif

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/fluffle

DMC87
05-31-2004, 09:40 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JJPSX:
Correction and I share the same tastes, obviously. I want to learn Russian too. I dislike French. I honestly think it sounds awful. Like, HORRIBLE. And I hate how it seems like half the letters in a word are silent.

</font>

I agree...

Hate French
Love Russian

SAJN
05-31-2004, 09:43 AM
I like Russian and German. German is a sexy language.

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Yecti
05-31-2004, 09:51 AM
Japanese is an eloquent language. But if you want to make a girl laugh while trying to make your move, speak Tai http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

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Dormouse
05-31-2004, 10:12 AM
The issue with French, and English to a lesser degree, is they are totally not suited to the Roman alphabet. And nobody is at all willing to consider [or even it being possible anymore] updating or making a new symbology.

French is mutated latin, yes, but it's mutated lower-class illiterate *******ized outpost-soldier-latin further corrupted and modified by the native Gaulish [Gaulic?] of where they were stationed. Like all those liasions and elisions are pretty literally etymologically "y'all" and "us'ns" and that sort of concept.

This for instance is the source of their ridiculous numbering system. The Gauls had a base-20 system, the Romans had decimal obviously, so the Gauls wound up using decimal because of the enforcement of their overlords, except when the numbers got big and they reverted. For those who don't know, French French counts normally through sixty, then it goes sixty-ten through sixty-nineteen, four-twenty through four-twenty-nine, and finally four-twenty-ten through four-twenty-nineteen before reaching 100. To my knowledge, most everywhere else that speaks French however simply goes soixante septante octante nonante cent.

But alphabetically, the Latin alphabet [which the Romans in turn stole from the Latines along with their language http://forums.massassi.net/html/redface.gif] tends to be very precise distinct phonetic and so forth, however when applied to French [or English as above, though lesser], it somewhat breaks down. This is why you have phonemes which are 3-5 letters long which /should/ be able to be expressed as a single distinct character. Just right off the top i can think of words like Beaucoup, or Queue [spelling that word out loud in French btw is hilarious].

The other main issue i have with French at least is that there's such a freaking lot of words which are pronounced identically, like ses sais c'est or the like. As well, you just simply do not pronounce any final letter unless it is c r f or l, or if the next word starts with a vowel, though those liasons themselves follow somewhat complicated and arbitraryish rules. Or that 5 of their 7 bloody conjugations sound utterly identical, which makes it a totally no-pro-drop language, that is virtually any time you have a verb you must must have a pronoun or else you don't know whom the verb refers to.

However, French French being French French, is incredibly intolerant and dissmissive of linguistic change or the possibility of a revised or new symbology, i mean they have a bleeding bureau in their government to preserve their linguistic integrity. Hence things such as it's not 'email' its 'courielle electronique', at least for any sort of official or government function.

Though that's not to say it's a language utterly without merit, one of my friends and i who took the course are fairly comfortable just conversing in French on campus about whatever, so it's not that i just didn't get it or couldn't learn it, i just found it a bit frustrating or annoying or linguistically un-aesthetic or whatever. Probably especially because the language i'd learned right before it was Russian, which has an artificial alphabet which is almost entirely phonetic and crafted specifically for the language [qod bless St Cyril], and has one of the most totally distinct and coherent inflection-patterns of any language i've ever seen aside from Latin perhaps. That is, every conjugation, every tense, every agreement, are almost all entirely distinct to the ear, there were very few times i ran into one word sounding exactly like 5 other words. It is utterly a pro-drop language because of this, as with Latin most of the time you simply leave off pronouns except for clarity or emphasis. And for that matter, the to-be verb is left out as well the majority of the time, unless youre using past or future [bijt' or budet'. i may have those backwards though]. Now admittedly there's rather more importance placed on syllabic stress , which isn't something i really encountered in French, but overall: mne ochen' nravit'sya russkij bol'she chem' frantsuszkij.

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"If all those usefull inventions that are lyable to abuse, should therefore be concealed, there is not any Art or Science, which might be lawfully profest."
-John Wilkins, Mercury, or the Secret and Swift messenger, shewing how a man may with privacy and speed Communicate his thoughts to a Friend at any distance (London, 1641)
[i]NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

[This message has been edited by Dormouse (edited May 31, 2004).]

DogSRoOL
05-31-2004, 10:27 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MechWarrior:
I typically make love in English... what... I was supposed to make it in French... WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME THIS! DAMN IT GUYS!

</font>

Ne vous rappelez-vous pas cette nuit où nous avons passée ensemble? Je vous ai donné un massage d'huile.

Remember?

[This message has been edited by DogSRoOL (edited May 31, 2004).]

Flexor
05-31-2004, 11:26 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dormouse:
For those who don't know, French French counts normally through sixty, then it goes sixty-ten through sixty-nineteen, four-twenty through four-twenty-nine, and finally four-twenty-ten through four-twenty-nineteen before reaching 100. To my knowledge, most everywhere else that speaks French however simply goes soixante septante octante nonante cent.</font>

Where did you hear that? I've never even -heard- of septante/octante/nonate? O_o

No, we all say sixty-ten, four-twenty, four-twenty-ten, etc. For instance, if you want to say "ninety thousand and ninety nine", you'd have to say "Four-twenty-ten thousand four-twenty-ten-nine". http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif But it's really not that hard to learn, you just have to try and see 'quatre-vingt-dix' as being one word meaning ninety rather than quatre, vingt, and dix. http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
This is why you have phonemes which are 3-5 letters long which /should/ be able to be expressed as a single distinct character. Just right off the top i can think of words like Beaucoup, or Queue [spelling that word out loud in French btw is hilarious].</font>

Well, okay, beaucoup is a weird word, but I don't see any useless characters in queue, unless you count that rule in the french language that says a Q must -always- be followed by a U.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
The other main issue i have with French at least is that there's such a freaking lot of words which are pronounced identically, like ses sais c'est or the like. As well, you just simply do not pronounce any final letter unless it is c r f or l, or if the next word starts with a vowel, though those liasons themselves follow somewhat complicated and arbitraryish rules. Or that 5 of their 7 bloody conjugations sound utterly identical, which makes it a totally no-pro-drop language, that is virtually any time you have a verb you must must have a pronoun or else you don't know whom the verb refers to.</font>

It's the useless insane complexity of it that makes it beautiful. http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
However, French French being French French, is incredibly intolerant and dissmissive of linguistic change or the possibility of a revised or new symbology, i mean they have a bleeding bureau in their government to preserve their linguistic integrity. Hence things such as it's not 'email' its 'courielle electronique', at least for any sort of official or government function.
</font>

Ironically, of all places on earth where french is spoken, it's in france that people use english words the most. grille pain -&gt; toaster, stationnement -&gt; parking, etc.. http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Probably especially because the language i'd learned right before it was Russian</font>

Well there you go. You can't compare french to russian, because russian is godly http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif


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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Flexor
05-31-2004, 11:30 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Ne te rapelles tu pas de cette nuit que nous avons passée ensemble? Je t' ai donné un massage d'huile.
</font>

typically you don't adress someone to whom you just gave an oil massage the same way as you'd adress your boss. http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

[This message has been edited by Flexor (edited May 31, 2004).]

Roach
05-31-2004, 11:38 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Flexor:
typically you don't adress someone to whom you just gave an oil massage the same way as you'd adress your boss. http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

</font>


Depends on your profession...

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Roach - Caught in the war of hemispheres.
0 of 14.

Martyn
05-31-2004, 12:31 PM
Someone teaching me french told me the french word for "mug" (what you drink tea out of) is "mug".

That made me smile.

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Mort-Hog
05-31-2004, 12:47 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Well, okay, beaucoup is a weird word, but I don't see any useless characters in queue, unless you count that rule in the french language that says a Q must -always- be followed by a U.
</font>

What he's saying is that in the word 'queue' there are two phonemes, and so logically there should be two characters. Let's say the character 'õ' represents the 'yoo' sound, the word 'queue' would be transliterated as 'kõ'. Such an alphabet would make a lot more sense.


[This message has been edited by Mort-Hog (edited May 31, 2004).]

Morfildor
05-31-2004, 12:53 PM
Personally, I wouldn't mind learning Italian or Japanese.

Italian because I prefer it over French (which I already know a fair amount of anyways). Besides, isn't Italian considered a romance language also?

Japanese in case I ever want to try working abroad. In such a case, I'd probably go to Japan.

Mort-Hog
05-31-2004, 01:11 PM
Japanese is a fairly straight-forward language, they don't conjugate and the grammar rules seem to be pretty rigid with the verb always going to the end of the sentence. They do miss out a lot of words in conversational Japanese which confuses me, as I tend to read sentences grammatically and not contextually.

Martyn
05-31-2004, 01:13 PM
Verbs to the end of the sentence go? Then like Yoda and all of germany you will speak!

http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif


(EDIT: Or should that be will you speak...? http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif)
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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

[This message has been edited by Martyn (edited May 31, 2004).]

Flexor
05-31-2004, 01:35 PM
Around the hostages, a perimeter create!

(man, that was weak)

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Vornskr
05-31-2004, 02:15 PM
I would just like to point out that just because a language lacks a lot of synthetic complexity (e.g. elaborate conjugation schemes, nominal declensions, etc.) does not mean it's a simple language. English is inordinately complex once you get into syntax, especially in terms of verbal aspects and more complicated constructions.

In terms of how difficult it is to learn to speak a language, I think that has a lot more to do with how similar that language is to your own, and not with how 'complex' it is, because every language has its own irregularities and strange rules. As far as writing English goes, it's really no worse than any language like Chinese or Japanese that has thousands of unique characters, each representing a single syllable/word.

About language families: Romance languages are defined as languages derived from Latin. Thus, Spanish, Italian, French, Rumanian, Catalan, Occitan, Romantsch, and Portuguese are all Romance languages. Latin, however, is not derived from itself and is considered an Italic language, along with Umbrian and Oscan. English, despite having borrowed many words from Latin and French, is derived from Germanic ancestry, and will always be classified as a Germanic language. It is the biological child, so to speak, of Proto-German, and no matter how long it lives with its foster parents, that will never change.

And, finally, on the topic of reforming English's spelling: I doubt that it will ever be possible. First of all, you have the difficulty that fluent English speakers will never want to give up fluency in reading and writing their languagee halfway through their lives; we read and write whole words at a time, and going to a more phonetic scheme would require sounding out every word. If you make the change gradually enough, this may not be a problem, but this requires a strict obedience to a plan over at least a hundred years (during which time the language itself will evolve) across many governments all over the world.

If that isn't problem enough, you face the further difficulty that, because there is so much regionalism in the pronunciation of English, there will never be a system that is truly phonetic for everyone. If we were to adapt English spelling to my dialect, both 'caught' and 'cot' would be spelled the same, because I use the same vowel for both. But for many other people, the same letter now might mean either one of two different vowels. The easy solution is to pick one dialect and force everyone to learn that. But which dialect will that be? Would the United States government agree to adopt a British dialect, or vice versa? We can't even agree on whether it's 'color' or 'colour'.

So that's my language rant, which no one read because it got too long. http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif

Flexor
05-31-2004, 02:21 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Vornskr:

In terms of how difficult it is to learn to speak a language, I think that has a lot more to do with how similar that language is to your own...
</font>

That would seem logical, but if it were true, then it would be as difficult for someone who speaks french to learn english as it is for someone who speaks english to learn french. No, english is probably not the most basic of languages out there, but in terms of complexity, french (and most other popular languages) have it beat by a long run.



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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Martyn
05-31-2004, 03:00 PM
You pronounce 'cot' and 'caught' the same? Where's that accent from? I can only think of Irish!



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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Dormouse
05-31-2004, 03:02 PM
How would you not pronounce them the same? At least i've never thought of a difference..

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[Blue Mink Bifocals ! (http://dor.nullmind.org/)] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/ (http://deadkittyp.com/)] [&lt;!-- kalimonster --&gt; (http://kalimonster.net/)] [Capite Terram (http://villainsupply.com/)]
"If all those usefull inventions that are lyable to abuse, should therefore be concealed, there is not any Art or Science, which might be lawfully profest."
-John Wilkins, Mercury, or the Secret and Swift messenger, shewing how a man may with privacy and speed Communicate his thoughts to a Friend at any distance (London, 1641)
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

Martyn
05-31-2004, 03:31 PM
Like the difference between Dot, spot, lot, and say bought, court, fought. The 'o' is short, rather than the elongated ones in the second set. (I wish my friend Saf was here, she's doing a linguistics degree and could explain it so much better than me!)

But my accent's wierd anyways. I'm just curious! http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Dormouse
05-31-2004, 03:46 PM
All of those except court i pronounce the same....

And court is like cork with a t.

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[Blue Mink Bifocals ! (http://dor.nullmind.org/)] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/ (http://deadkittyp.com/)] [&lt;!-- kalimonster --&gt; (http://kalimonster.net/)] [Capite Terram (http://villainsupply.com/)]
"If all those usefull inventions that are lyable to abuse, should therefore be concealed, there is not any Art or Science, which might be lawfully profest."
-John Wilkins, Mercury, or the Secret and Swift messenger, shewing how a man may with privacy and speed Communicate his thoughts to a Friend at any distance (London, 1641)
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

Cloud
05-31-2004, 03:59 PM
I would like to learn Japanese or Russian, but I have to stick with Spanish (only went up to level III) since my school only offers that, German, and French.

DogSRoOL
05-31-2004, 05:19 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Flexor:
typically you don't adress someone to whom you just gave an oil massage the same way as you'd adress your boss. http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

</font>

Hey... SHUT UP! http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif
Babel fish can only do so much.
I might've changed it if I remembered how to conjugate verbs.

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Genesis 22:2-5 - And God said unto Abraham "You must kill your son, Isaac." And Abraham said "What? I can't hear you! You'll have to speak into the microphone." And God said "Check, check, check, check. Jerry, can you pull the high end out. I'm getting some hiss up here."
Valuable Life Lesson: Frog + Potato Gun = Blindness (http://www.local6.com/news/2116865/detail.html)
Catalog of Electronic Components (http://www.chipcatalog.com) - Complete IC data sheets
National Electrical Code® (NEC®) Online (http://www.mikeholt.com) - Legal requirements for wiring projects.

Master Tonberry
05-31-2004, 06:32 PM
All I can do in Russian is swear.

Vornskr
05-31-2004, 06:49 PM
About the cot/caught issue, I'm from lower Michigan, and I like to think that my dialect is pretty close to standard American. Then again, I've got friends who've also lived here their entire lives and do make the distinction. So maybe I'm just weird.

At least I don't say 'melk' for 'milk' like everyone else in this state. http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif

stat
05-31-2004, 08:16 PM
Yiddish is the language of love. The ladies love words that begin with "sh" and they swoon when you cover them with saliva and mucus with a throaty "kh" sound.

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Superstition brings bad luck.
-Raymond Smullyan, 5000B.C.

darthslaw
05-31-2004, 09:54 PM
Although there is a word for just about every farking thing, it's also a downside; who in the heck uses these words on a regular basis? Most people I know personally use "basic" english and avoid bombastic speech that would make amiable people go bad.

Jeez, it's hard to write a sentence with bloated and sententious language.

therefore,
machine language &gt; *

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for(i = 0; i &lt; 00; i = i + 1) Print("massassi is good");
PrintInt(i); //print the integer value of infinity

Mort-Hog
06-01-2004, 02:17 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
As far as writing English goes, it's really no worse than any language like Chinese or Japanese that has thousands of unique characters, each representing a single syllable/word.
</font>

Chinese has pictographs, but Japanese has an alphabet. In fact, it has two, one for writing in English and one for writing in Japanese. Japanese does use some Chinese pictographs for proper nouns and things, but mostly they use an alphabet. In Chinese, though, you only use the pictographs, and I think that this concept makes a lot more sense. If you were trying to explain something to a stranger, the easiest way would be to draw them a picture, and it is from the cave-man origins that the Chinese characters come from. A lot of the characters have been developed and changed by the CCP, in order to make them easier and quicker to write, so actually seeing the original pictures is difficult or impossible, but some remain the same.
For example,
http://morto.dyndns.org/chinesetree.jpg This character means 'tree'. If you were called 'Mr. Wood' then you would use this character to mean your name.
http://morto.dyndns.org/chinesemountain.jpg This character means 'mountain', with the three peaks.

When these characters are used to represent abstract concepts, they become quite interesting.
http://morto.dyndns.org/chineselove.jpg
This character represents 'love' and is supposed to depict a mother and her child.

Similarly, when depicting modern ideas or concepts, the Chinese have to be inventive, as 'psychology' is made up of three characters, mind+body+logic. Some words, though, become almost like sentences when depicting complicated concepts.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
In terms of how difficult it is to learn to speak a language, I think that has a lot more to do with how similar that language is to your own, and not with how 'complex' it is, because every language has its own irregularities and strange rules.
</font>

Hmm, to an extent, I guess so. It's certainly a lot easier to remember the words that sound the same as the English ones.
But when it comes to grammar, I think that follows a different thought process.

When speaking Latin (as you do), you have to think about:
Whether the noun is singular or plural;
Whether the verb is referring to a singular or plural subject;
Which case the clause is in;
Whether the verb should go to the end or not;
Whether you should ommit the subject or not;
Which declension the noun follows;
Which declension the verb follows;

The last two are a real pain.

Old English is even worse, in that there are up to nine different cases and five different declensions. and a whole host of different dialects to boot.

Japanese grammar is much easier as I don't have to think about verb conjugation, genders, or declensions.
It does, however, have one peculiarity, in that is has particles that define whether a word is a subject or an object (whereas in English, the word order and/or conjugation does this)

For example,
|watashi wa | Mort | des |
|I | Mort | am |

'wa' has no meaning by itself, but shows that 'watashi' is the subject. I guess this makes it considerably easier when listening to Japanese. I don't really know complicated Japanese so I don't know how things are with adverbs or subjunctives or imperatives. But Japanese does at least have simple foundations, and so there's less to think about at a fundemental level.

Ooh, something that I find fantastic about Mandarin grammar is 'ma'.
If I say 'wo he cha' it means 'I drink tea'.
'ni he cha' means 'you drink tea'. 'ni he cha ma' means 'Do you drink tea?'. Just adding that word to end makes it a question! That amazes me, for some reason.


On English...

I think American English has tried to simplify English spelling, and I agree with some of it. The use of 'z' instead of 's' makes sense, I think, in words like 'standardization'. That is a definite 'z' sound, in contrast to, say, 'sensation'. Even in an RP accent, you can't avoid the 'z' sound.
Others, I disagree with, like 'color'. In the word 'colour' the two vowel sounds are not the same. 'cull-eeuh'. You don't say 'coll-orrr'. Getting rid of the 'o' and making it 'colur' would make more sense. 'coleur' makes the most sense, though.

BobTheMasher
06-01-2004, 02:34 AM
I love language. Just think about the little details you are all discussing. It's beautiful.

For the record, though, I very much dislike the sound of romantic languages. I'm a germanic-type.

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WOOSH|-----@% (http://forums.massassi.net/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Lord+Kael)

stat
06-01-2004, 07:47 AM
You barbarian.

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Superstition brings bad luck.
-Raymond Smullyan, 5000B.C.

Bounty Hunter 4 hire
06-01-2004, 09:45 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dormouse:
Gaulish [Gaulic?]</font>It'd be Gallic - pertaining to the (mostly celtic) tribes of France collectively called the Gauls. Not to be confused with Gaelic-pertaining to the Gaels of Ireland which the Romans refered to as Hibernia.

I like the celtic languages, though most tend to sound a little rough.

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

[This message has been edited by Bounty Hunter 4 hire (edited June 01, 2004).]

Vornskr
06-01-2004, 12:06 PM
Mort, I'll admit I don't know that much about either Japanese or Chinese (I just say Chinese for simplicity, since my cluelessness is equal for Mandarin, Cantonese, and anything else...), but I was under the impression that, in Japanese, kanji are used for just about everything. (I'm assuming that by the two alphabets, you mean hiragana and katakana, and by the pictographs you mean kanji, right?)

About the grammar, what I meant is this:
If you spoke Old English, and were used to declining nouns into nine different cases, it wouldn't be bad at all for you to learn how to do basically the same thing in another language like Latin.

On the other hand, starting with a language like that where almost all the grammatical information is an obvious part of the word, it's more difficult to learn to infer all of that information just from how the words are arranged.

Basically, it's easier to do grammatical tasks that you do in your own language than to train your brain to perform completely new ones.


To get a little closer back to the real topic of the thread, I personally agree with everyone who says German sounds way better than French. Never understood why anyone would like the latter. http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif

I think the reason why it's called the 'language of love' has something to do with how it was the language of many of the medieval Romances, which included stories of courtly love. That's what I've been told before, anyway.

Mort-Hog
06-01-2004, 03:02 PM
I think if you spoke Old English or Latin, learning any other European language would a lot easier.
Remembering all the declensions and getting used to conjugating is totally harder than remebering that there aren't any declensions and that you don't conjugate. :-)

On Japanese:
Katakana is generally used for foreign names, borrowed words, company names, and new Japanese words

Hiragana is generally used for simple words, conjugations, dictionaries, most books, and for showing how to pronounce kanji.

Both of the above are phonetic alphabets.

Kanji is generally used for place names, names of people, and verb and adjective stems. A lot of the Japanese kanji are simplified versions of the Chinese.

Okay, I may have underestimated the use of Kanji, but Hiragana is more used, I believe.


Also, I think French has a certain... je ne ce pas.

Dormouse
06-01-2004, 11:07 PM
I think you meant 'a certain je ne sais quoi' http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif

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[Blue Mink Bifocals ! (http://dor.nullmind.org/)] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/ (http://deadkittyp.com/)] [&lt;!-- kalimonster --&gt; (http://kalimonster.net/)] [Capite Terram (http://villainsupply.com/)]
"If all those usefull inventions that are lyable to abuse, should therefore be concealed, there is not any Art or Science, which might be lawfully profest."
-John Wilkins, Mercury, or the Secret and Swift messenger, shewing how a man may with privacy and speed Communicate his thoughts to a Friend at any distance (London, 1641)
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

Flexor
06-01-2004, 11:27 PM
actually, both work http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Mort-Hog
06-02-2004, 02:17 AM
I meant 'shut up' &gt;:

Mort-Hog
06-02-2004, 07:03 AM
Also, I read in Mother Tongue that English is the only language that has thesauruses (thesauri?).

Flexor
06-02-2004, 07:31 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
Also, I read in Mother Tongue that English is the only language that has thesauruses (thesauri?).</font>

nuh-uh.


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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Bounty Hunter 4 hire
06-02-2004, 09:05 AM
Greek is the only language more verbose than English that I know of. And that is because it has dozens of semi-synonyms for certain words, each conveying a slightly different meaning or connotation.

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

Flexor
06-02-2004, 10:27 AM
I don't see english as having all that many words. In fact, I can think of several french words that have no equivalent in english.

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!