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Thread: This Isn't the Petition Response You're Looking For

  1. #1

    This Isn't the Petition Response You're Looking For

    Interesting way for citizens and government officials to spend their time.

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    Official White House Response to Secure resources and funding, and begin construction of a Death Star by 2016.

    This Isn't the Petition Response You're Looking For

    By Paul Shawcross
    The Administration shares your desire for job creation and a strong national defense, but a Death Star isn't on the horizon. Here are a few reasons:

    • The construction of the Death Star has been estimated to cost more than $850,000,000,000,000,000. We're working hard to reduce the deficit, not expand it.
    • The Administration does not support blowing up planets.
    • Why would we spend countless taxpayer dollars on a Death Star with a fundamental flaw that can be exploited by a one-man starship?

    However, look carefully (here's how) and you'll notice something already floating in the sky -- that's no Moon, it's a Space Station! Yes, we already have a giant, football field-sized International Space Station in orbit around the Earth that's helping us learn how humans can live and thrive in space for long durations. The Space Station has six astronauts -- American, Russian, and Canadian -- living in it right now, conducting research, learning how to live and work in space over long periods of time, routinely welcoming visiting spacecraft and repairing onboard garbage mashers, etc. We've also got two robot science labs -- one wielding a laser -- roving around Mars, looking at whether life ever existed on the Red Planet.
    Keep in mind, space is no longer just government-only. Private American companies, through NASA's Commercial Crew and Cargo Program Office (C3PO), are ferrying cargo -- and soon, crew -- to space for NASA, and are pursuing human missions to the Moon this decade.
    Even though the United States doesn't have anything that can do the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs, we've got two spacecraft leaving the Solar System and we're building a probe that will fly to the exterior layers of the Sun. We are discovering hundreds of new planets in other star systems and building a much more powerful successor to the Hubble Space Telescope that will see back to the early days of the universe.
    We don't have a Death Star, but we do have floating robot assistants on the Space Station, a President who knows his way around a light saber and advanced (marshmallow) cannon, and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which is supporting research on building Luke's arm, floating droids, and quadruped walkers.
    We are living in the future! Enjoy it. Or better yet, help build it by pursuing a career in a science, technology, engineering or math-related field. The President has held the first-ever White House science fairs and Astronomy Night on the South Lawn because he knows these domains are critical to our country's future, and to ensuring the United States continues leading the world in doing big things.
    If you do pursue a career in a science, technology, engineering or math-related field, the Force will be with us! Remember, the Death Star's power to destroy a planet, or even a whole star system, is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
    Paul Shawcross is Chief of the Science and Space Branch at the White House Office of Management and Budget

  2. #2
    DOMO ARIGATO MR. ROBOTO
    COUCHMAN IS BACK BABY

  3. #3
    Admiral of Awesome
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    Or better yet, help build it by pursuing a career in a science, technology, engineering or math-related field. The President has held the first-ever White House science fairs and Astronomy Night on the South Lawn because he knows these domains are critical to our country's future, and to ensuring the United States continues leading the world in doing big things.
    President Obama knows science is critical to America's future. That's why President Obama and all of his ambitious friends have JDs.

  4. #4
    Admiral of Awesome
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    Personally, I don't see a problem here. If America's demand for STEM graduates is greater than the supply it'll increase the median price of labour in the short term, which will cause a long-term return to equilibrium once more STEM graduates enter the labour market.

    I don't know why Obama doesn't have any faith in the free market. He must be a socialist. Either that or, lol, the market demand for STEM graduates is a pure fiction designed to make the American people believe that the problem is with them and not with an unholy pairing of government and industry that is so hilariously wasteful and corrupt that America no longer has any possible future as a world power, but what are the chances of that?

  5. #5
    THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. ROBOTO
    FOR DOING THE JOBS NOBODY WANTS TO DO
    COUCHMAN IS BACK BABY

  6. #6
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
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    THANKS OBAMA!
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    Personally, I don't see a problem here. If America's demand for STEM graduates is greater than the supply it'll increase the median price of labour in the short term, which will cause a long-term return to equilibrium once more STEM graduates enter the labour market.

    I don't know why Obama doesn't have any faith in the free market. He must be a socialist. Either that or, lol, the market demand for STEM graduates is a pure fiction designed to make the American people believe that the problem is with them and not with an unholy pairing of government and industry that is so hilariously wasteful and corrupt that America no longer has any possible future as a world power, but what are the chances of that?
    can you substantiate these claims?

  8. #8
    Admiral of Awesome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    can you substantiate these claims?
    What claims? It's a logical argument.

    - If Obama believes that American capitalism is effective, then he must believe in the economic equilibrium of the price and supply of labour. (P=>Q)
    - If Obama believes he has to beg for an increase of the supply of labour, then he must not believe in the economic equilibrium of the price and supply of labour. (R=>~Q)
    - Obama believes he has to beg for an increase of the supply of labour. (R)
    -------------------------------------------------
    Obama believes that American capitalism is ineffective. (R. R=>~Q, therefore ~Q. P=>Q contrapos. is ~Q=>~P, therefore ~P.)

    What does this mean? It means Obama believes that the American economy is not able to effectively answer the three basic economic questions: what to produce, who produces it, and who receives it. In other words, Obama believes that the American economy is completely broken (or has never worked in the first place). We could spend a long time speculating on exactly why he thinks so, but it might be more efficient to wait until 2016 and just ask him.

    or...

    If Obama believes that American capitalism is effective, he must believe in the economic equilibrium of the price and supply of labour. Thus, he understands that if you increase the supply of labour, you decrease the price of labour. Therefore, since Obama wants to increase the supply of STEM labour, he therefore means to decrease the price of STEM labour. In other words, eliminate the last holdouts of the middle class.

    Pick your poison.

    Unless you were talking about the whole regulatory capture thing. I dunno. I think it's pretty obvious that the US government is structured to oppress small businesses that operate outside of the service industry, what with inventing egregious opportunity costs for innovation and some of the highest (non-salary) costs of employment in the entire world (tho I think that's mostly through complete incompetence).
    Last edited by Jon`C; 01-14-2013 at 11:40 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    What claims? It's a logical argument.

    - If Obama believes that American capitalism is effective, then he must believe in the economic equilibrium of the price and supply of labour. (P=>Q)
    - If Obama believes he has to beg for an increase of the supply of labour, then he must not believe in the economic equilibrium of the price and supply of labour. (R=>~Q)
    - Obama believes he has to beg for an increase of the supply of labour. (R)
    -------------------------------------------------
    Obama believes that American capitalism is ineffective. (R. R=>~Q, therefore ~Q. P=>Q contrapos. is ~Q=>~P, therefore ~P.)

    What does this mean? It means Obama believes that the American economy is not able to effectively answer the three basic economic questions: what to produce, who produces it, and who receives it. In other words, Obama believes that the American economy is completely broken (or has never worked in the first place). We could spend a long time speculating on exactly why he thinks so, but it might be more efficient to wait until 2016 and just ask him.

    or...

    If Obama believes that American capitalism is effective, he must believe in the economic equilibrium of the price and supply of labour. Thus, he understands that if you increase the supply of labour, you decrease the price of labour. Therefore, since Obama wants to increase the supply of STEM labour, he therefore means to decrease the price of STEM labour. In other words, eliminate the last holdouts of the middle class.

    Pick your poison.

    Unless you were talking about the whole regulatory capture thing. I dunno. I think it's pretty obvious that the US government is structured to oppress small businesses that operate outside of the service industry, what with inventing egregious opportunity costs for innovation and some of the highest (non-salary) costs of employment in the entire world (tho I think that's mostly through complete incompetence).
    What's their given reason for wanting STEM majors?

  10. #10
    Admiral of Awesome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    What's their given reason for wanting STEM majors?
    because STEM Jobs Help America Win the Future(tm).



    ...



    Because the demand for STEM workers is growing 7.2% faster than the aggregate. They want to bring down the labour cost so that American technological innovation remains price competitive against foreign firms.

  11. #11
    MY HEART IS HUMAN
    MY BLOOD IS BOILING
    MY BRAIN FGR

  12. #12
    Admiral of Awesome
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    "33% of degrees earned in the United States are in STEM fields, but only 5.5% of the labour force works in STEM occupations. That's why the United States needs more STEM graduates."

    I'm not ****ting you, this is literally the explanation the White House gives on their own website.

    Companies used to manage labour costs with the H1B program but it stopped working. The reason it stopped working is because nobody wants to live there anymore. (Sorry guys, but it's true. Living in the United States is a pretty raw deal compared to what we're getting in our own countries.)

    Years ago a company like Microsoft would bring in a super-smart Indian on an H1B visa, and when the visa expired he'd apply for citizenship and it would permanently increase the supply of labour. Now, everybody wants to stay home to start their own business. American companies have to leave America to chase after the foreign talent they can no longer bring in. Since immigration is no longer a viable option for controlling the price of knowledge workers, they have to resort to programs and legislation designed to artificially inflate the domestic supply.


  13. #13
    I like how we've gotten to the point where Jon`C makes serious points and we all reply with non sequiturs.

    Time like this I wish I wasn't incredibly thick-headed when it comes to learning about politics, law, medicine, mathematics, sciences, foreign languages, programming, or just about any useful skill-set. It's hard to be proud of the relevance of the few arts and other humanities-related skills I have when those other skill sets literally save lives.
    The Plothole: a home for amateur, inclusive, collaborative stories
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    "33% of degrees earned in the United States are in STEM fields, but only 5.5% of the labour force works in STEM occupations. That's why the United States needs more STEM graduates."

    I'm not ****ting you, this is literally the explanation the White House gives on their own website.

    Companies used to manage labour costs with the H1B program but it stopped working. The reason it stopped working is because nobody wants to live there anymore. (Sorry guys, but it's true. Living in the United States is a pretty raw deal compared to what we're getting in our own countries.)

    Years ago a company like Microsoft would bring in a super-smart Indian on an H1B visa, and when the visa expired he'd apply for citizenship and it would permanently increase the supply of labour. Now, everybody wants to stay home to start their own business. American companies have to leave America to chase after the foreign talent they can no longer bring in. Since immigration is no longer a viable option for controlling the price of knowledge workers, they have to resort to programs and legislation designed to artificially inflate the domestic supply.

    Well what do you think should be done?

  15. #15
    Admiral of Awesome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    Well what do you think should be done?
    dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed
    well.. okay

  17. #17
    It's Stuart, Martha Stuart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post

    Companies used to manage labour costs with the H1B program but it stopped working. The reason it stopped working is because nobody wants to live there anymore. (Sorry guys, but it's true. Living in the United States is a pretty raw deal compared to what we're getting in our own countries.)
    I don't see what you mean. There was a slight dip in H1B enthusiasm during the recession, but it's picking back, up and there hasn't yet been a year in which the cap was not reached.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_vi...of_the_Program

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obi_Kwiet View Post
    I don't see what you mean. There was a slight dip in H1B enthusiasm during the recession, but it's picking back, up and there hasn't yet been a year in which the cap was not reached.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_vi...of_the_Program
    The reason the H1B is dual-use is so that American businesses and government can permanently aggregate a stream of talented foreigners. That's not happening. What's happening is a flat increase to the supply of labour, and then time-served workers return to their own countries and use American money and training to profit without contributing anything back to the United States. This is incredibly harmful to the United States in the long term.

    This, by the way, is why MS pushes the family **** so hard at their foreign recruiting events. They want you to think that Seattle is a great place to squeeze out kids because you're more likely to stick around longer if you do. Which is lol as ****. Better hope your wife doesn't tear anything or else you'll be living in a cardboard box and/or debtor's prison for the rest of your life.
    Last edited by Jon`C; 01-14-2013 at 10:35 PM.

  19. #19
    It's Stuart, Martha Stuart
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    Do you have any numbers on this? The numbers of H1Bs seem pretty small compared to the economy.

    Also, I'd like to see the number on the percentage of H1Bs with out health insurance. They don't get paid competitively, but I'd be surprised if very many of them didn't have health insurance. H1Bs seem like a pretty poor deal for applicants, especially if you don't plan to follow up with citizenship. Uncompetitive wages, if you loose your jobs you get put at the back of the line, ect. There's a lot of ways to get screwed over.

  20. #20
    Admiral of Awesome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    well.. okay
    In truth:

    The solution is to let American labour float and race China to the bottom.

    Basically Obama's idea is to cede the unskilled labour and manufacturing markets to China, and transition into the world's supplier of intellectual property. The problem with this plan is that it's not going to work (also that it's unspeakably racist). You need to recognize that white engineers aren't inherently smarter than Chinese engineers, and that the quality of your universities will only hold out as long as the money does. You really need to recognize that the sun is setting on America's role as a net exporter of invention and culture. You'll need to compete on your own merits if you want to succeed in a global economy.

    Maybe that means a lot of you starve to death because the capitalist system no longer requires your services. idk.

    The solution sucks.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obi_Kwiet View Post
    Do you have any numbers on this?
    no sry, just hearsay from the industry. You don't qualify for citizenship until after your H1B expires so even if USCIS tracks this information I'm not sure how they would represent it.

    The numbers of H1Bs seem pretty small compared to the economy.
    Yes, but they have high impact. They are skilled workers who are brought in by companies to drive innovation and perform tasks that (ostensibly) Americans are not qualified to do. They are ambitious and willing to take risks (such as move to a foreign country with possibly as little as 48 hours notice to leave). They are exactly the sorts of people who you want to stick around.

    Also, I'd like to see the number on the percentage of H1Bs with out health insurance. They don't get paid competitively, but I'd be surprised if very many of them didn't have health insurance.
    3/4 of Americans who are bankrupted by medical costs had insurance.

    H1Bs seem like a pretty poor deal for applicants, especially if you don't plan to follow up with citizenship. Uncompetitive wages, if you loose your jobs you get put at the back of the line, ect. There's a lot of ways to get screwed over.
    The wages are competitive. Employers are required to pay the greater of either the average company salary for the position, or the average salary as calculated by the United States government. But, yes, if you lose your job you are gone.

    Not sure how it would be a worse deal if you didn't plan to apply for citizenship, though. What, exactly, are the benefits of citizenship at this point?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    In truth:

    The solution is to let American labour float and race China to the bottom.

    Basically Obama's idea is to cede the unskilled labour and manufacturing markets to China, and transition into the world's supplier of intellectual property. The problem with this plan is that it's not going to work (also that it's unspeakably racist). You need to recognize that white engineers aren't inherently smarter than Chinese engineers, and that the quality of your universities will only hold out as long as the money does. You really need to recognize that the sun is setting on America's role as a net exporter of invention and culture. You'll need to compete on your own merits if you want to succeed in a global economy.

    Maybe that means a lot of you starve to death because the capitalist system no longer requires your services. idk.

    The solution sucks.
    no good career options in america it seems

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    no good career options in america it seems
    Well, you can still become a doctor.

    -- a lawyer
    If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.

  24. #24
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael MacFarlane View Post
    Well, you can still become a doctor.

    -- a lawyer
    Hurricanes create a need for both! God bless global warming!
    >>untie shoes

  25. #25
    The only way out of this mess is to pay each citizen an income for the productivity of automated processes. Probably wouldn't be a full income at first, but a supplement to our really ****ty wages currently. Then as technology makes more of us redundant, this wage should be increased.
    Last edited by Freelancer; 01-19-2013 at 11:36 PM.
    "it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009

  26. #26
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    the only way out of this mess is anarchist upheavals into a communist revolution

  27. #27
    Admiral of Awesome
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    hi, bump with permission from CM

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    The reason the H1B is dual-use is so that American businesses and government can permanently aggregate a stream of talented foreigners. That's not happening.
    Here's a figure for whoever was curious: only 3% of H1B workers applies for permanent residence. 97% were, apparently, not thrilled by their experiences in the land of freedom and opportunity.

  28. #28
    Child's Play CharityRibberium Mempyre!

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    land of **** and other kinds of ****

  29. #29
    Government caused the problem. I'm thrilled to see Jon'C isn't suggesting more government to fix it.

  30. #30
    Human Computer
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    I had avoided this thread because I assumed that it was only going to be a discussion about the silly death-star petition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    Sorry guys, but it's true. Living in the United States is a pretty raw deal compared to what we're getting in our own countries.
    As a U.S. citizen that's now living in Paris, I find the lack of getting ass-raped by various industries (e.g. healthcare) to be disturbing. I often feel guilty about being rewarded with a decent standard of living for my hard work. I felt so dirty the other day when a doctor came to our home within 15 minutes of calling to care for my daughter. I try not to drink the water because I hear it's high in socialism.
    Last edited by Mentat; 02-23-2013 at 11:16 AM.
    ? :)

  31. #31
    Boneless Chicken Wings
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    this thread sucks more dick than a device whose sole purpose is to suck dick
    error; function{getsig} returns 'null'

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