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Thread: Star Wars: Attack Squadrons (New Space Sim!!)

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    I started boycotting EA a long time before Battlefield 3 came out, so idk for sure. They probably wanted people to be able to launch games from their ~GAMER SOCIAL NETWORK~. Web browsers don't allow webapps to run arbitrary programs on the host computer, for obvious reasons, so you need some sort of plugin to do it. ofc you also want to do a bang-up job securing that plugin, otherwise someone else could embed it in their website and use it to hijack your users' computers.
    Yeah they did implement some horrible social network **** into BF3/4. You can go onto other players page and give a Facebook-style "Hooah!" (like) for each item a player unlocks, and comment on people buying expansions and whatnot.

    I have a hard time understanding the mind of the project leader who thinks that social media is so revolutionary that it needs to be stuffed into every product in the most hamfisted ways.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark__Knight View Post
    Well, I got into the beta. What was strange is that they sent me the message that I got into the beta, and I only had that same day to try testing it out. I got home from work and tried it. I was initially pretty bummed about it being a web-browser based launching game, but the graphics were decent enough (however the settings were completely uncustomizable and anti-aliasing couldn't be enabled).

    The controls, like that guy said in his review, were strange. Overall they were what you'd expect using a mouse and keyboard for a flight sim. However, there was no explanation of what the controls were anywhere, so for the first 5 minutes or so I was literally just pressing every key on my keyboard to see what it would do. Also, unless I somehow missed a key, there was no way to switch into a cockpit view, which I found pretty annoying.

    The three ships you could select between operated fairly different, as you would expect them to - (X-wing, Y-wing, and Tie Interceptor). However, they all had the exact same loadout availabilities, which seemed odd to me (proton torpedoes and homing missiles).

    The gameplay was fun, but got old pretty quickly. I guess I suppose this was due to a lack of any real objectives. The only gamemode that was available was team deathmatch, which was simply a timed skirmish where the team with the most kills at the end of the round wins. I didn't really try the customizing, as I really couldn't even figure it out. I tried messing with it for a couple of minutes and couldn't find anything to spend my in-game credits on, so I gave up and went back to playing.

    That's really all of the comments I have. Overall the game was fine, but only having three ships, one single map to play on, and only one gamemode really hurt the experience. Not to mention a very unpolished menu. I'm sure most of these points will be addressed by the time this is released, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
    Terrible. It has like 3% of the functionality that TIE Fighter did.
    "it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Freelancer View Post
    Terrible. It has like 3% of the functionality that TIE Fighter did.
    Ah, but 3333% of the 'necessary' love and care was devoted to developing TIE Fighter. I mean, why try at anything in life once you realize it's all about milking your customers for all they're worth?

    Ah, the days when people thought they had to actually try hard at x, y, or z to accomplish p.

    No, my friends, Lucas Disney has us by the balls! And he it won't let go....

  4. #44
    Not trying to resurrect and old thread, even though this may not qualify as an old thread some years ago, but I'm wondering if anyone here still plays this? I got into beta as well and I'm finding it very odd that at only at certain hours (around 4pm to 11pm UTC-6), do I find anyone playing, and always on the same map. I've noticed that none of the game's social pages have been updated recently. Has it died before it even launched? Chat doesn't seem to work, or I don't know how to make it work. So far I've been playing for a couple of weeks on and off, with an x-wing and tie trainer (can't afford anything better, and you gain so little money from each match). I also can't find any significant difference in the mods placed on a ship, except for the number of torpedoes I can carry.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SF_GoldG_01 View Post
    Not trying to resurrect and old thread, even though this may not qualify as an old thread some years ago, but I'm wondering if anyone here still plays this?
    I still log in every now and then but as you said it seems like the progress on the game has come to a halt. I'm not sure if that's just because anything else they're working on will not be rolled out until it is officially released, or if they're just ready to give up at this point.

    Either way, the excitement I initially had for the game is lost. I'm not saying it doesn't have any potential, but at the same time it really hasn't shown any promise either.

    Oh well, I'm sure we'll get a plethora of new games once these new movies come out. Hopefully at least a quarter of them will be decent.
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  6. #46
    Ah yes, this reminds me:

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...1313-Trademark

    Option A: Good riddance
    Option B: All that potential is now lost ... in time. Like tears... in ... rain. Time to die. It's too bad this game won't live... but then again, who does?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr View Post
    Ah yes, this reminds me:

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...1313-Trademark

    Option A: Good riddance
    Option B: All that potential is now lost ... in time. Like tears... in ... rain. Time to die. It's too bad this game won't live... but then again, who does?
    Yeah, they abandoned it, but who's to say the assets won't be used in future development, or at least concepts. Look at Star Wars Battlefront 3 - that died off years ago after it was probably nearing completion, and now we have a new Battlefront game being developed by DICE.

    I'm just saying, despite looking forward to 1313 myself, I'd rather just have the confirmation that it's done and that new projects are in route rather than wondering about its pending existence.
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  8. #48
    Once everyone found out this game was a goddamn microtransaction money maker everyone stopped caring. It was guaranteed not to be a fun game at that point.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Matty View Post
    Once everyone found out this game was a goddamn microtransaction money maker everyone stopped caring. It was guaranteed not to be a fun game at that point.
    I think this is kind of an ignorant statement. I've played plenty of games that are free, or require a small initial investment but no subscription afterward and some of them are delightful.

    I'm not saying this is the end-all-be-all system that some idiots make it out to be, because it's not. However, if done correctly it can actually make for a pretty fun game, and a great revenue opportunity for the publisher as well.

    Some games continue to thrive solely off of their free to play (+ micro-transaction) platform, Guild Wars 2 and War Thunder just to name a pair of games that I have enjoyed on this model.

    I know that it can also be a huge disappointment and failure as well though, as I originally played SWTOR before it went down the F2P road and the game crash and burned once that came around - although the game was meeting its own demise at that time anyway, this merely just accelerated the process.

    Long story short, you can't say this is what turned people away from the game. What unsold people is that this lacked any innovation and seemed like a watered-down version of the PC games that preceded it over a decade ago.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr View Post
    Ah yes, this reminds me:

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...1313-Trademark

    Option A: Good riddance
    Option B: All that potential is now lost ... in time. Like tears... in ... rain. Time to die. It's too bad this game won't live... but then again, who does?
    It's kinda disturbing that 3 Star Wars games have gone off track now, 4 if you include BF3.

    Like the Darth Maul video game:

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/04/...arth-maul-game
    Nothing to see here, move along.

  11. #51
    Thing is, this game has almost no backing. That might cut it for a mobile game, but it definitely isn't for a more desktop-oriented game. Besides, your examples were terrible ones. Guild Wars is paid for up-front and has no real server-side infrastructure.

    If you really wanted to shoot me down, you should have mentioned TF2.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Matty View Post
    Besides, your examples were terrible ones. Guild Wars is paid for up-front and has no real server-side infrastructure.

    If you really wanted to shoot me down, you should have mentioned TF2.
    They were just two examples from my personal experience to challenge that if it's F2P and micro-transaction based that it's doomed to fail upfront. There are probably better examples out there, and I haven't played TF2 in years (which technically required a purchase initially anyway).

    And I understand that Guild Wars / GW2 are not technically "Free to play" in that you cannot play the game without making an initial purchase, but it is a marginal cost in comparison to the MMOs that require a subscription. Guild Wars was way ahead of its time when it tried this formula years ago with the first installment.
    Last edited by Dark__Knight; 04-22-2014 at 05:01 PM.
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  13. #53
    That's because technically Guild Wars isn't an MMO. It's about as MMO-like as Starcraft.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.[1] MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.

    MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Guild Wars 2 is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game developed by ArenaNet and published by NCsoft. Set in the fantasy world of Tyria, the game follows the re-emergence of Destiny's Edge, a disbanded guild dedicated to fighting the Elder Dragons, a Lovecraftian species that has seized control of Tyria in the time since the original Guild Wars. The game takes place in a persistent world with a story that progresses in instanced environments.[3]


    As a sequel to Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2 features the same lack of subscription fees that distinguished its predecessor from other commercially developed online games of the time, though a purchase is still required to install the game.[9] As reported by NCsoft and ArenaNet, by September 13 (about 2 weeks after launch), despite temporarily halting first-party sales, the game has sold over 2 million copies.[10][11] The game's peak concurrency exceeds 400,000 players.[12] By January 2013, over 3 million copies of the game have been sold.[13] By August 2013 the sales have shifted 3.5 million copies,[14] peak concurrency at 460,000.[14]
    I apologize for using Wikipedia as a source due to lack of time for this argument, but it's clearly evident that GW2 is an MMO by definition. I fail to see the relation of your analogy.
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  15. #55
    Then they should fix it, because by Wikipedia's own definition it's not.

    "Large number of players simultaneously" != "a handful of players in instanced worlds".

    Like I said, it's basically like Starcraft, Diablo 3, or whatever at that point. You have a giant lobby (aka, the "city"), you find players, you join a game, you play with that group by themselves. Hardly qualifies as a true MMO.

  16. #56
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    You're referring to Guild Wars 1, which was much more like Diablo in that sense. Guild Wars 2 is not instanced, you choose a server and play on it and anyone on your server can be seen anywhere outside of specific dungeons that are party-driven.
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark__Knight View Post
    You're referring to Guild Wars 1, which was much more like Diablo in that sense. Guild Wars 2 is not instanced, you choose a server and play on it and anyone on your server can be seen anywhere outside of specific dungeons that are party-driven.
    Just about every mmo has instancing/zoning of some type and of some magnitude so as to not over tax the server and clients. Imagine a zone with 500 players, each client will receive 499 position packets of all surrounding players roughly some 30 times per second. That means a server would roughly be sending out 85.66MB a second of JUST movement packets. Now imagine the added load of chat packets, inventory queries, attack packets, etc...

    (MATH for those interested)
    Update packet is roughly 12bytes (3 floats, not including headers)
    Each player receives 499 update packets 30 times a second
    There are 500 players to update

    89820000 bytes a second.

    Each player would be downloading roughly 175KB a second.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SF_GoldG_01 View Post
    Just about every mmo has instancing/zoning of some type and of some magnitude so as to not over tax the server and clients. Imagine a zone with 500 players, each client will receive 499 position packets of all surrounding players roughly some 30 times per second. That means a server would roughly be sending out 85.66MB a second of JUST movement packets. Now imagine the added load of chat packets, inventory queries, attack packets, etc...

    (MATH for those interested)
    Update packet is roughly 12bytes (3 floats, not including headers)
    Each player receives 499 update packets 30 times a second
    There are 500 players to update

    89820000 bytes a second.

    Each player would be downloading roughly 175KB a second.
    MMOs never update at 30 snapshots per second. More like 10. Sometimes more like 1. And they use techniques to trim down the data they send, like taking advantage of the client PVS (networking "LOD").

    Zoning isn't remotely necessary, it's just a lot more difficult.

  19. #59
    Client-side interpolation is why multiplayer worked in XvT, they couldn't send massive amounts of data to the host and back out several times a second over 56k. It's also why in-game replays (XvT, War Thunder) can sometime have odd playbacks, since every time you watch the replay it's re-interpolating possible movement updates before the next packet is received.
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  20. #60
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    I wouldn't say multiplayer "worked" in XvT. The XvT netcode GDmag article was basically one long "HAIL SATAN":




    I can't figure out how to update the game state if snapshots aren't delivered in order and in lock-step! We have to use TCP!

    TCP's too slow! Better use UDP!

    UDP's too unreliable! Better send every snapshot twice just in case one of them got lost!

    Our customers keep complaining about rubber-banding and being threatened with network timeouts, things which basically never happen in any other game ever! THE INTERNET SUCKS, IT IS INTERNET FAULT.

  21. #61
    I'd love a link to that article Jon`C

    And Darkjedibob: you should read up this article: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...8_network_.php Also known as "Why XvT shouldn't have had that sort of problems".

  22. #62
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    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...i_.php?print=1

    "The Internet Sucks: Or, What I Learned Coding X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter".

    Right in the title, so you know he isn't ****ing around. Ave gloriosa in nomine satanas.

  23. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    MMOs never update at 30 snapshots per second. More like 10. Sometimes more like 1. And they use techniques to trim down the data they send, like taking advantage of the client PVS (networking "LOD").

    Zoning isn't remotely necessary, it's just a lot more difficult.
    You're correct, assuming that we're talking about your average everyday turn based mmo, where you can conserve packets in several situations (i.e. if the player is not moving, don't send movement packets).

    However I was thinking about a hypothetical mmofps, where the number of updates each client would receive would be considerably higher in a highly populated region of the game with lots of ongoing action. Perhaps not 30 movement packets per second, maybe around 15-20? Perhaps it could vary depending on how many people are populating a region, and even then you could still save bandwidth with techniques like the one I mentioned.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

  24. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by SF_GoldG_01 View Post
    It's kinda disturbing that 3 Star Wars games have gone off track now, 4 if you include BF3.

    Like the Darth Maul video game:

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/04/...arth-maul-game
    It's been happening since forever. And the ones that do get released are always so obscure. Has there ever been a truly popular Star Wars game? Battlefront 2, maybe? Star Wars Galaxies at its peak?

    Okay, okay, Kotor.. I'll give you that. And I guess SWTOR..
    Last edited by Freelancer; 04-23-2014 at 03:11 AM.
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  25. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Freelancer View Post
    Has there ever been a truly popular Star Wars game?
    Rebel Assault
    Everyone bought a CD ROM drive just to play that game.
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  26. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Freelancer View Post
    It's been happening since forever. And the ones that do get released are always so obscure. Has there ever been a truly popular Star Wars game? Battlefront 2, maybe? Star Wars Galaxies at its peak?

    Okay, okay, Kotor.. I'll give you that. And I guess SWTOR..
    The Force Unleashed was pretty popular, most of my friends who aren't star wars fans, but own an xbox, also own TFU.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

  27. #67
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    I know we've switched subjects, but Quake Live was a decent browser-based game (via a plug-in), before it was stand-alone (haven't played since it wasn't). I like how they handled subscription fees--opening up more content (maps, "hosting" options, etc.)--instead of the usual crap that's associated with these games.
    ? :)

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    MMOs never update at 30 snapshots per second. More like 10. Sometimes more like 1. And they use techniques to trim down the data they send, like taking advantage of the client PVS (networking "LOD").

    Zoning isn't remotely necessary, it's just a lot more difficult.
    Also, just because there are 500 other clients around doesn't mean the server will actually tell you about them. Your client may be aware of a lot less than that (well under a 100), even if you theoretically should be able to see them around you.


    Zoning/Instancing can help reduce cost though, especially client side if you are a console MMO.

  29. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by SithGhost View Post
    Also, just because there are 500 other clients around doesn't mean the server will actually tell you about them. Your client may be aware of a lot less than that (well under a 100), even if you theoretically should be able to see them around you.


    Zoning/Instancing can help reduce cost though, especially client side if you are a console MMO.
    Exactly. I don't have any faith in console MMO's though, I just don't see their technical limitations allowing people to expand or develop an MMO without considerably more difficulties.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by SF_GoldG_01 View Post
    Exactly. I don't have any faith in console MMO's though, I just don't see their technical limitations allowing people to expand or develop an MMO without considerably more difficulties.
    I don't know if that's really fair. DCUO can be a bit rough around the edges but does have a pretty dedicated PS3 fan base, and also regularly releases updates and DLC.

  31. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by SF_GoldG_01 View Post
    Exactly. I don't have any faith in console MMO's though, I just don't see their technical limitations allowing people to expand or develop an MMO without considerably more difficulties.
    Final Fantasy 11 was very​ successful on console.

  32. #72
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    The challenging parts of MMO are on the server, not on the client. Also, ps4 and xbone are pretty much just PCs.

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    The challenging parts of MMO are on the server, not on the client. Also, ps4 and xbone are pretty much just PCs.
    MMO Clients can actually have a lot of interesting problems, particularly if they are on a console toward the end of that console's life cycle and your MMO also runs on PC. To stay competitive you want to keep offering new and pretty features to your PC players, but everything you add to the console version needs more love as time progresses. I would agree with you that current generation consoles, being very new, have time before they hit that quite as bad as I experienced it on a PS3/PC MMO.

    That being said though, having worked at a few AAA studios now with both console and PC builds, it can still take a lot of work to get something that runs fairly well on a decent PC to run just as well on even a new console (new generation included). I would hesitate to call them "pretty much just PC's."
    Last edited by SithGhost; 04-28-2014 at 09:34 PM.

  34. #74
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    ps4 and bone might be underpowered compared to a modern desktop but they are both based on the same commodity AMD x86 SoC, they are both little endian, they are both SMP, they are both OoO superscalar, with the same branch prediction and prefetching and all those other nice things we have on a modern desktop.

    They aren't space alien architectures like earlier consoles. They aren't might-as-well-be-VLIW in-order superscalar. They don't have impossible to program asynchronous stream coprocessors. They aren't two consoles glued together driving different screens. They don't use a repurposed character mode for graphics and you don't have to fit your draw calls between scanlines. Consoles are stupid and have always been stupid. So yes, ps4 and xbone are pretty much just PCs.

  35. #75
    i have no idea what you just said but i think it was computers
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  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    ps4 and bone might be underpowered compared to a modern desktop but they are both based on the same commodity AMD x86 SoC, they are both little endian, they are both SMP, they are both OoO superscalar, with the same branch prediction and prefetching and all those other nice things we have on a modern desktop.

    They aren't space alien architectures like earlier consoles. They aren't might-as-well-be-VLIW in-order superscalar. They don't have impossible to program asynchronous stream coprocessors. They aren't two consoles glued together driving different screens. They don't use a repurposed character mode for graphics and you don't have to fit your draw calls between scanlines. Consoles are stupid and have always been stupid. So yes, ps4 and xbone are pretty much just PCs.
    I hope this commonality will pave the way for getting a more low level API on the PC side of things.

  37. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    ps4 and bone might be underpowered compared to a modern desktop but they are both based on the same commodity AMD x86 SoC, they are both little endian, they are both SMP, they are both OoO superscalar, with the same branch prediction and prefetching and all those other nice things we have on a modern desktop.

    They aren't space alien architectures like earlier consoles. They aren't might-as-well-be-VLIW in-order superscalar. They don't have impossible to program asynchronous stream coprocessors. They aren't two consoles glued together driving different screens. They don't use a repurposed character mode for graphics and you don't have to fit your draw calls between scanlines. Consoles are stupid and have always been stupid. So yes, ps4 and xbone are pretty much just PCs.
    The first paragraph is extremely general hardware characteristics. And definitely because you can cite some of the crazy things people used to have to do, means developing for it is the same. :p In your experience, you have found developing for PS4 and Xbone to be the same as developing for PC?

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SithGhost View Post
    The first paragraph is extremely general hardware characteristics. And definitely because you can cite some of the crazy things people used to have to do, means developing for it is the same. :p
    I didn't say developing for them is the same, but that's a software choice. Outside of workflow and APIs they are literally PCs containing literal PC hardware.

    The first paragraph is a list of extremely specific developer-friendly microarchitecture features which the PS3 and Xbox 360 didn't have, but the PS4 and Xbone do because they use COTS PC hardware. That's the point. And the second paragraph isn't citing a list of crazy things people "used" to have to do; a scant few months ago these problems were seen on the cutting edge consoles, and still are today on handhelds.

    By what standard do you say that the PS4 and Xbone aren't basically PCs? Because, and I hate to say this again, they contain actual PC hardware. The tricky bits like vectorization, locking and fences are all going to carry over to your Windows build without any changes. I'm guessing you've mostly dealt with things at the gameplay level.

    In your experience, you have found developing for PS4 and Xbone to be the same as developing for PC?
    I work on your dev tools, not games. If you've worked on AAA games you've probably used something I've worked on.

    something something crunch time, layoffs, lousy pay, the worst customers in the entire software industry
    Last edited by Jon`C; 04-30-2014 at 10:16 PM.

  39. #79
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    So, in short, you haven't developed an MMO or on a console, but still know the difficulty/ease of doing either based on hardware specs and gamasutra articles?

  40. #80
    Sorry for going on topic... but if you still play this game, post your in-game name, mine is Tom_Hoot.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

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