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Thread: Music or No Music?

  1. #1

    Music or No Music?

    Hey

    So I play jedi knight with the disc and have been putting music cues in my cutscene scripts, however if most people don't have the CD anymore I guess I will have to convert the music to .wav and have it play that way (of course if you die it doesn't play anymore and that's a problem). Just want to know how many people still play with the CD.



    Related note: This should probably go in the editing forum, but could it be possible to have the music .wav playing from a thing? that way if you die it won't stop. Maybe.

  2. #2
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    I don't still play at all (regularly, I mean... I think I played through the campaign a year or two ago), but if I did, I certainly wouldn't use a CD. Not even sure where those things live these days, or what condition they are in.

  3. #3
    I used the CD rarely, if at all, back when I extensively played it -- I doubt that would change if and when I picked it back up again.
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  4. #4
    For a good time, call 555-3985
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    I think the GOG version plays music. Not sure how they handle it though.
    If you want to play JK join the JK Chat on IRC @ irc.gamesurge.net Channel #jk I am the new Admin there! (JKLE_Cougar)

  5. #5
    GOG version plays the music via OGG, so if anyone wants to play the games with the original soundtrack, it's the best version.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goit
    But could it be possible to have the music .wav playing from a thing? that way if you die it won't stop.
    You have to go the TODOA TC "no savegames but checkpoints only*" way for that to make it as smooth as possible.
    * = Haven't tested (and won't test) TODOA TC with savegames enabled, so I can't fully comment on that

  6. #6
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    Last edited by Reid; 08-05-2015 at 01:57 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    even if it is John "Literally Copy-Pastes Music For Every Movie" Williams
    Ever heard of a guy named Hans Zimmer?
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  8. #8
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    Uuuuughhhh Hans Zimmer

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    JK is hardly as cool without the music, even if it is John "Literally Copy-Pastes Music For Every Movie" Williams
    Agreed. The music is significant.
    ? :)

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    Last edited by Reid; 08-05-2015 at 01:57 AM.

  11. #11
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    Last edited by Reid; 08-05-2015 at 01:58 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    it's almost impossible to be truly creative within the 12-note, equal temperaments we use today.
    I'd be very interested to hear more about this. How does one become "truly creative" in ways that past composers haven't?

    That's why you get John Williams straight taking pieces from other composers, for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IXMpUhuBMs&t=15m25s
    That's neat.

    Here are a few more:

    Star Wars, Main Theme: taken from the score of King's Row.

    Battle for Yavin: seems to be inspired by the Mars movement of Holst's Planets symphony.

    Not really
    That's impressive. I guess I'm just a pleb, but it surprises me that someone with an interest in music hasn't heard of Hans Zimmer. Personally, I don't understand how somebody can watch Gladiator and not look the guy up.

    As for his 'borrowing': Remember the part in The Lion King, where Mufasa dies? The music played in the aftermath is based on Mozart's Ave Corpus Verum (and what a beautiful piece to pilfer!).

    As for his self-copying: the music played just before Mufasa dies was re-hashed for Gladiator, and later for Pirates of the Caribbean. Some also say that the intro to the intro section to Gladiator's main theme is a re-working of Vangelis' Conquest of Paradise theme. The rest of the piece is heavily inspired with the Mars movement of Holst's Planets (just the same as with Williams).

    There is also Zimmer's theme for The Rock, which sounds very similar to the rest of his stuff. In turn, I think the guy who did the Rogue Spear soundtrack was heavily inspired by it (which makes since, seeing the similar themes of the two productions).

    Anyway, I don't have a problem with any of this. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts--a mash-up! Also, if the 'perpetrating' composer really does in fact venerate his antecedent, it might simply be a gesture of respect to leave the borrowed portion largely unchanged, rather than muck it up.

    I'll leave the last word to Brahms. In response to accusations that parts of his First Symphony resembled the chorale theme of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, his retort was that "any ass can see that".
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 04-10-2015 at 10:04 PM.

  13. #13
    Almost every aspect of human culture builds on antecedents. Virtually every great artist became inspired only after absorbing the works of a prior master. And (perhaps most importantly), anybody who's lived long enough to absorb the culture is predisposed to view a new piece of art through the lens of previously consumed works. Great artists steal.

    Whether or not that artist can be considered to be creative or not is an entirely different question.

  14. #14

  15. #15
    One of these days, Reid and Reverend Jones will accidentally combine themselves into a being named Reverend Reid Jones - Philosopher Extraordinary.

  16. #16
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    can't wait

  17. #17
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    Funny , I got used to play JK listening to music in general.
    JK's soundtrack seems too generic to me :p

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    As for his self-copying: the music played just before Mufasa dies was re-hashed for Gladiator, and later for Pirates of the Caribbean.
    It bears mentioning that the themes for Gladiator and Pirates of the Caribbean were both composed by Klaus Badelt - not Zimmer.
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  19. #19
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    Last edited by Reid; 08-05-2015 at 01:58 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    There's not alot anyone really can do. The music scale we're used to is 12 notes divided between octaves on a logarithmic scale, each note's frequency is a ratio of the starting frequency; the starting frequency itself is p. much arbitrary (which is why A=432hz people are idiots). So unless you're in some kind of classical tuning method, from an abstract perspective key is meaningless, but that does change in actual application because each instrument's specific intonation will affect each key's timbre.

    I suppose experimenting with divisions into 13, 16, or some other arbitrary amount of notes between octaves would be a way to experiment. Personally I'm fine with 12-note just intonation if it can be worked into a piece, as justly intonated anything sounds purely amazing, even if it's weird at first. The human ear is very good at hearing pitch to within a few cent, and really likes the sound of basic fractions (e.g. major third = 5/4 the frequency of your key), and I think for a major third equal temperament is about 14 cents off.

    In any case, you can justly intonate an instrument, but it's only justly intonated in the key it's intonated in. This is why you can buy a "C" or an "E" harmonica.
    This is all fascinating. I've listened to justly intonated recordings on Youtube before. In one video the author claims that Bach wrote for "pure harmony", and was limited by keyboard technology of the day, but that those limitations can be removed by modern computer synthesis.

    However, I happen to like my instrument to be slightly out of tune. If you compare the sound of a piano with and without just intonation, the conventionally "out of tune" version actually sounds better to me. The justly intonated version seems sterile, lacking the character of a piano.

    Bach wrote for the organ, though, and not the piano. If your standard is Bach, then of course it might seem that your creativity is limited by the mathematics of the tuning situation.

    But back to the point of originality. Starting from an arbitrary key, there's not exactly a huge amount of melodies that one can create, because essentially there's only 12 notes one can ever go to. Add hundreds of years of people coming up with really good melodies, and Bach's methods of harmonizing, and you find that increasingly it's hard to make any sort of significant impact on the musical world.
    ...which brings me back to my last point: creativity =/= harmony. There's a ton more going on in music than novel use of counterpoint.

    To start, just witness this Brian Eno work, which clearly is a great piece, but the reasons for this fall far outside the scope of Bach-style harmony. The harmonies are simple, because they are not the most important part. To lament the state of musical composition because one aspect has been optimized to death is to miss all the other possibilities that spring up when you get unstuck from your local optimum, and look at other dimensions like texture, mood, and even techniques designed to evoke subjective emotional responses by triggering memories about shared culture.

    Movie soundtracks tend to sound all pretty much the same to me. They've basically codified movements into feelings and use them as not-so-subtle cues for how the audience should feel at any moment.
    Paintings tend to look all pretty much the same to me. They've basically codified images into feelings and use them as not-so-subtle cues for how the viewer should feel at any moment.
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 04-12-2015 at 01:36 PM.

  21. #21
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    It's almost like a movie's soundtrack is actually just a part of a larger thing that is meant to be enjoyed as a whole...
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  22. #22
    That's only what your deep synapses want you to think.

  23. #23
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    Oh no, FGR! Are you suggesting that there's a subconscious element at play that's causing me to intrinsically enjoy things?

    What a nightmare!
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  24. #24
    I can't even begin to fathom how it must feel to encounter and interpret stimuli and have your body react in a certain manner to it.

  25. #25
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    Last edited by Reid; 08-05-2015 at 01:58 AM.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    Eh? I know you're being rhetorical but this doesn't make much sense to me.
    I'm saying that Bach didn't "solve music", any more than the Dutch masters of the 17th century obsoleted non-realistic styles of painting. Also, what Antony said.

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    Last edited by Reid; 08-05-2015 at 01:58 AM.

  28. #28
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    Last edited by Reid; 08-05-2015 at 01:58 AM.

  29. #29
    Dear Reverend Jones,

    Welllll in that case, Reid, we are in complete agreement. Fantastic diagnosis, thanks.

    The message board is the medium. And, like its quainter cousin of the last millennium (which I'm told is a "letter"), it profusely suffers from a certain crucial flaw--a defect so insidious that nearly every participant will inexorably bury it, even before discerning its very existence. I am, of course, speaking of our undeniable, mutual, isolation. We write to each other like old friends, when in fact we are no more familiar with each other than are two IRL strangers following an hour-long conversation on a flight. Simply put, textual messages (crucially, embedded between long stretches of silence) seem to provide a great deal less Shannon entropy than that of ordinary, in-person (interactive!) dialog--that is, when it comes to providing clarification and context for basic assumptions.

    To be sure, the capacity to write messages in their entirety, at leisure, can clearly enable sophistication and detail that far outstrips the limitations of extemporaneous speech. Still, by what basis can sophistication remedy questions about its own semantic foundation? By encoding sophisticated language against the sparse network of shared language and culture? Perhaps. Nevertheless, if the goal is clarity, why not directly use this sophisticated language to directly clarify the foundations of the discussion? The answer here is clear: too much latency. The constraints of the medium seem to have dictated a single remaining option: try each different possible semantic interpretation, inventing a different hypothetical human each time, and pick the best one to respond to.

    But then, am I really writing to "you"? Or am I really addressing an "old friend" after all (myself)?

    Regards,
    Reverend Jones

  30. #30
    Child's Play CharitySon of Krokodile XVI
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    As an outsider, thanks for that discussion. I dabble in creating music on my computer, and this was all really interesting and included some stuff I didn't know or think about before.
    Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Krokodile View Post
    As an outsider, thanks for that discussion. I dabble in creating music on my computer, and this was all really interesting and included some stuff I didn't know or think about before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kroko @ #massassi - May 15th 2013
    do keep in mind, Nikumubeki, that gbk.mp3 is a mere intro to a song (which is yet to be released...)
    Still waiting, Kroksmith.

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