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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Vaping
12
Vaping
2015-07-31, 9:03 AM #1
Vaping has been becoming more popular. It has even created new hobbyist that build their own "Mods" (atomizers). I wanted to check the Massassi pulse on what their thoughts are on the vaping industry is, especially any concerns. I know we have some smokers on here, so have any of you switched to vaping? I don't personally vape, but I found a few people in the local area who does and one person who already had her own e-liquid line. We re-branded her line and started a new company with the intent to primarily sell wholesale, but we do have an online store setup for those who want to buy direct. If anyone wants to check it out, follow the link below. There's a FB contest and a BOGO deal going on right now for those who vape and are interested. Thoughts? Any input is welcomed.

http://www.temptingvapes.com/


2015-07-31, 9:11 AM #2
Massassi isn't really a good place to advertise for your friend's business. There's only like 15 people here.
2015-07-31, 9:34 AM #3
I wasn't really advertising. Just starting a discussion about vaping in general.
2015-07-31, 9:37 AM #4
Hmm ok. Well, like you, I don't vape. Don't have much of an opinion about it, except that I don't like it when someone assumes they can blow vape clouds inside my car because it's not smoke.
2015-07-31, 3:26 PM #5
I used to smoke lots of cigarettes. I have a vaporizer now. I enjoy it because I don't smell like smoke anymore, and it's more economically feasible.

I despise the term "vape".
>>untie shoes
2015-07-31, 4:05 PM #6
How do you refer to it?
2015-07-31, 4:35 PM #7
I generally don't refer to it at all.
>>untie shoes
2015-07-31, 9:00 PM #8
I agree with Antony on the term "vape" (and "vaping"). I am sympathetic towards people that are using it for smoking cessation but annoyed by those that seem to suck more than a baby on a teet and wear them around their necks like jewelry. But I'm old so whatever.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2015-07-31, 9:36 PM #9
Yeah, that's just about the only reason I ever started doing it. It's worked out alright. I haven't had a real cigarette in quite a while.

And I'm with you on the people who do it non-stop, too. I might take a few hits off of it between races on Project Cars or whatever, but otherwise I generally leave it be.

On the other hand, driving to/from work, or writing code: I burn that ************ down like I need it to survive.
>>untie shoes
2015-08-01, 4:59 AM #10
I tried an e-cig before I "stopped" smoking but it gave me about the same sensation that I get from chewing on an ink pen. I don't care enough about the subject to research whether or not it actually helps people stop smoking, but if it does, more power to those of you that make the transition. However, if you're one of those people that whip that **** out in an enclosed public space, I hope you impale yourself with it.
? :)
2015-08-01, 6:48 AM #11
Agreed on that as well. I don't use the damned thing anywhere that I wouldn't have lit a cigarette. The people who simply take it up because now they can pretty much smoke wherever they want are *******s. It's really not that hard to make an attempt to be respectful to other people. I don't care if it's water vapor or whatever. If people wanted to breathe the ****, they'd buy one.
>>untie shoes
2015-08-01, 8:45 PM #12
I used to smoke a pack a day, now I puff a tank a day. (I say puff instead of vape) It's definitely helped with not putting holes in my lungs. :eek:
-Hell Raiser
2015-08-02, 9:53 AM #13
It really amazes me how much easier it is to breathe now. And how you aren't constantly blowing brown **** out of your nose.

I generally go through two tanks per day, though, since I decided to be a cheapskate and buy the Atlantis with the smallest tank. I need to rectify that at some point.
>>untie shoes
2015-08-02, 12:13 PM #14
What are your thoughts on liquids in terms of clear vs color. What types of flavors do you prefer?
2015-08-02, 12:34 PM #15
I dunno about color, but I prefer minty flavors, some cinnamon, Cherry, vanilla.... None of the Berry stuff though. As long as it has nicotine I'm happy, lol. :)
-Hell Raiser
2015-08-02, 2:37 PM #16
My boss has started smoking one of those e-cigs that looks like a tiny clarinet.

He looks like something from the cantina band.
nope.
2015-08-03, 9:22 AM #17
so he uh.

he looks like this?

[http://williambeem.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Bith-Bomb.jpg]
2015-08-03, 8:26 PM #18
I am really interested in vaping as a means to quit smoking. The part that scares me, however, is that people say it is harder to quit vaping than smoking, and others keep telling me that its even worse for your health (citing some websites). Any thoughts?
Nothing to see here, move along.
2015-08-03, 8:37 PM #19
I VAPE WEED *****
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2015-08-03, 8:40 PM #20
Originally posted by SF_GoldG_01:
I am really interested in vaping as a means to quit smoking. The part that scares me, however, is that people say it is harder to quit vaping than smoking, and others keep telling me that its even worse for your health (citing some websites). Any thoughts?


I've had people tell me that eating genetically modified food is bad for your health (citing some websites).

Also, I use a pipe tobacco flavor. It is usually brown, but when it's new it's clear for some reason. I think it tastes better when it's brown, but I'm not sure if that's an actual thing or not.
>>untie shoes
2015-08-04, 5:48 AM #21
I've had friends quit smoking that attempted to make the switch to ease themselves off it and none of them enjoyed it.

Then again, they all smoke rollies so that might make a difference.
nope.
2015-08-04, 7:49 AM #22
Originally posted by SF_GoldG_01:
I am really interested in vaping as a means to quit smoking. The part that scares me, however, is that people say it is harder to quit vaping than smoking, and others keep telling me that its even worse for your health (citing some websites). Any thoughts?


E-Liquids primarily consist of 2 chemicals. PG (Propylene Glycol) and VG (Vegetable Glycerin). You can get these in different ratios. The more PG the more like smoking or what they call a "throat hit" you'll have. The more VG the more vape/cloud that will be produced. Most "Drippers" prefer a very high VG (85% to 100%). My understanding of the only "real" issue that has been put forward is in the use of PG. If the PG is heated to around 600 degrees F, then it will convert to formaldehyde, which (even though it is an organic compound) may be harmful. This was recently brought up on Dr. Oz's show. The problem with this claim is that it only produces very small doses of it but more importantly none of the atomizers are heating the PG to anywhere close to 600 degrees F. All of the chemicals used are food grade. Now, that doesn't mean that they're necessarily safe to inhale and research is underway to try and determine any harmful effects. Ultimately, it's just going to take time for people to use it and report the effects. If you are concerned, then get 100% VG.

Here's my take:
If you're not a smoker, then don't start vaping/dripping. If you are a smoker, here's something that allows you to still go through the motion and have a similar (or better) taste. We also know that cigarettes contain ingredients that cause cancer and numerous other negative health effects. Smoking also negatively impacts your medical insurance premiums. While we don't have enough research to determine the long-term effects of vaping/dripping (and I'm sure the big tobacco industry will do their own funded studies), we can take a pretty educated guess that they aren't going to be as bad as smoking.
2015-08-04, 8:15 AM #23
Originally posted by Alco:
If the PG is heated to around 600 degrees F, then it will convert to formaldehyde, which (even though it is an organic compound) may be harmful.


It is known to be extremely harmful, allergenic and carcinogenic in low concentrations, it is corrosive and causes extreme tissue damage. The reason you go blind when you drink rubbing alcohol is because of formaldehyde. Exposure levels are highly regulated everywhere.

Are you telling me that people are maybe huffing formaldehyde on purpose to make their throats burn? And they don't know that it's straight up one of the worst things you can possibly ingest?
2015-08-04, 9:49 AM #24
From what I understand about the claim, formaldehyde is only theoretical in the discussion because the PG in E-Liquids are only heated to maybe 1/3 of what would be required to even form any formaldehyde at all. Also, cigarettes are already known to contain formaldehyde. So even if there is formaldehyde present, it's one additional harmful chemical vs that plus numerous other known harmful chemicals that they're already ingesting. Obviously in both scenarios they're ingesting nicotine, which isn't healthy. I guess the real debate is if vaping/dripping is a healthier alternative to smoking and can it help at least some people stop smoking if it is healthier. Bearing in mind that you can reduce the amount of nicotine per bottle of E-Liquid that you purchase to slowly wing yourself off. That isn't even an option with cigarettes.
2015-08-04, 11:50 PM #25
Originally posted by Alco:
Bearing in mind that you can reduce the amount of nicotine per bottle of E-Liquid that you purchase to slowly wing yourself off. That isn't even an option with cigarettes.

Couldn't you just remove a bit of the tobacco from a cigarette to reduce the amount of nicotine? Maybe even replace the discarded bit with something more worthwhile, like hashish?
? :)
2015-08-05, 8:09 AM #26
Originally posted by Mentat:
Couldn't you just remove a bit of the tobacco from a cigarette to reduce the amount of nicotine? Maybe even replace the discarded bit with something more worthwhile, like hashish?


I'm sure you could, but who is going to put in the effort to do that? Most people want things ready to go off the shelf. E-Liquids come per-bottled at different mg levels of nicotine.
2015-08-05, 7:19 PM #27
I thought pseudointellectual racial paternalism would be the most insufferable thing I read on Massassi this week but then "vaping"
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2015-08-05, 9:46 PM #28
Originally posted by Michael MacFarlane:
I thought pseudointellectual racial paternalism would be the most insufferable thing I read on Massassi this week but then "vaping"
You can't spell eugenics without ick.
2015-08-06, 12:58 PM #29
Interesting. So the people I see that look like idiots with large billowing clouds of vapor around them are actually the ones smart enough to not be huffing anti-freeze. Hmm.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2015-09-01, 12:41 PM #30
Wacky British Idea: Why Not Tell The Truth About E-Cigarettes?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2015/08/27/wacky-british-idea-why-not-tell-the-truth-about-e-cigarettes/

"PHE’s position should not be controversial. It is indisputable that vaping, which does not involve tobacco or combustion, is much safer than smoking, and it logically follows that smokers can dramatically reduce the health risks they face by switching. Yet public health agencies and anti-smoking organizations in the United States, unlike their counterparts in the U.K., are strangely reluctant to acknowledge these points, implausibly portraying e-cigarettes as a threat rather than an opportunity."
2015-09-01, 12:52 PM #31
Yeah, why shouldn't public health agencies and anti-smoking organizations help promote an addictive inhalant known to cause heart disease?
2015-09-01, 12:59 PM #32
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Yeah, why shouldn't public health agencies and anti-smoking organizations help promote an addictive inhalant known to cause heart disease?


What "addictive inhalant" are you referring to? If you are referring to E-Cigs, then can you provide a citation? If you are referring to the nicotine, because reports have shown that nicotine may increase risks for heart disease, the public health agencies and anti-smoking orgs have no problems supporting nicotine patches, nicotine gum, nicotine pills, and other stop-smoking aids. It's a lot like the pot calling the kettle black don't you think?

BTW, drinking coffee also carries the risk of heart disease, rheumatoid arthritis, stroke, and more. You don't see the FDC coming out against coffee...
2015-09-01, 2:35 PM #33
Antifreeze makes you go blind, nicotine is bad for your heart. Apparently I'm just posting all kinds of controversial things in this thread.

Driving stoned is better than driving drunk, yet you don't see MADD promoting it as a safer alternative. Lol what a bunch of hypocrites.
2015-09-01, 4:14 PM #34
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Antifreeze makes you go blind, nicotine is bad for your heart. Apparently I'm just posting all kinds of controversial things in this thread.

Driving stoned is better than driving drunk, yet you don't see MADD promoting it as a safer alternative. Lol what a bunch of hypocrites.


Anything in large doses will make you sick and yet you can't admit that if you are a smoker, vaping e-cigs is a significantly better choice over smoking regular cigs?

The fact that the US Governmental Agencies (lobbied by big tobacco), the Media (puppets for the government and hasn't done any real journalism since the 70s), and even researchers (sponsored by big tobacco) are trying to convince everyone that e-cigs are just as bad as regular cigs was just a side note. In 5 years when big tobacco has a strong hold in the e-cig industry (like they are with other stop-smoking products), how much do you want to bet they'll start singing a different tune? Convenient don't you think?
2015-09-01, 5:26 PM #35
I'm not saying that e-cigs are worse for you than regular ones. I'm a cigar smoker. I know the risks and my preferences and I don't personally care what you or anybody else puts in their lungs. I'm sure e-cigs are much better for you, and if you smoke regular ones you'd be much better off switching, but all said you'd be even better off quitting or never starting.

There isnt some big conspiracy here. The people who have been public opponents of smoking are not hypocritical just because they also oppose something else bad for you, even if it's less bad. This line of thought is stupid and crazy.
2015-09-01, 5:52 PM #36
Originally posted by Jon`C:
There isnt some big conspiracy here. The people who have been public opponents of smoking are not hypocritical just because they also oppose something else bad for you, even if it's less bad. This line of thought is stupid and crazy.


...except that a lot of these same people support nicotine gum, nicotine patches, etc all of which are still just as bad as e-cigs. The funny thing is that many of these same people were opposed to it prior to big tobacco buying in to the companies producing those products. So, yes, there is a conspiracy and yes they are being hypocrites. Not that this is anything new with big business and US policies. I mean mj is a gateway drug but cigs are not?

For the record, I don't smoke at all. But I did feel the same way about vaping until about 2 months ago when I decided to actually educate myself on the topic.
2015-09-01, 6:09 PM #37
Except nicotine patches and gum are designed to be quitting aides when used correctly. Among other things, they are graduated. E-cigarettes are designed to be cigarette alternatives.

Doctors and the government promote the use of methadone, too. By your argument, they'd be hypocrites for opposing recreational codeine because it is a safer alternative to fentanyl.
2015-09-01, 6:21 PM #38
Did you ever stop to consider what e-cig proponents want to get out of having the government admit they're safer?

lil hint it has to do with being allowed to smoke in public places again.
2015-09-01, 8:15 PM #39
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Did you ever stop to consider what e-cig proponents want to get out of having the government admit they're safer?

lil hint it has to do with being allowed to smoke in public places again.


Some of them, admittedly, probably do want that. Though I don't support it. I'd personally like to see an admission from the government that it's safer to help smokers who switch to e-cigs reduce their medical insurance premiums. Right now because the government still calls e-cigs a tobacco product, they are not able to get any relief in their premiums. The other reason I want them to admit that it is safer is so that 45% of the population doesn't still falsely believe that they are just as bad as regular cigs. X-Rays of the lungs of users who have switched from reg cigs to e-cigs is dramatic after just 3 months. The short and long term health benefits of switching are just undeniable. It is unconscionable that government agencies would continue to decieve the public as they are doing.
2015-09-01, 8:51 PM #40
What is hair-splitting here meant to accomplish? It's not like the raised premiums actually cover the extra healthcare costs associated with smoking anyway; they're punitive fees for taking known and avoidable risks with your life, and e-cigarettes certainly qualify as that. The US government is already playing it fast and loose with the definition of 'smoker', I can't imagine them successfully codifying any differences between an e-cig smoker and a regular one.

* Note that smokers technically require less life-long care than non-smokers because they die young, avoiding all of the expensive and invasive end-of-life care. However, unlike end-of-life care, private insurance bears the brunt of the costs.
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