Massassi Forums Logo

This is the static archive of the Massassi Forums. The forums are closed indefinitely. Thanks for all the memories!

You can also download Super Old Archived Message Boards from when Massassi first started.

"View" counts are as of the day the forums were archived, and will no longer increase.

ForumsDiscussion Forum → BREAKING NEWS re: FastGamerr & modding
12
BREAKING NEWS re: FastGamerr & modding
2015-12-12, 11:40 AM #1
From the creative mind who brought us such works as TODOA and Deus Ex Nihilume

comes an epic realization of one of the greatest modding visions of our time

enter a world where dreams from the past

become today's reality

embark on a journey where what could have been

becomes that which is

enter

THROUGH THE STARGATE...





That's right. He's going to be "messing around with it just for kicks". We all know what that means. Hello finished Stargate SG-1 mod! Better late than never, eh? This to me is more exciting than the new Star Wars!
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2015-12-12, 11:45 AM #2
Stargaters is the show with Popeye, right?
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2015-12-12, 5:09 PM #3
12 years too late, or is it longer? Yes its a different world, of 7zip compression and fast connections.
Let me know when you want to download it, and I'll clear room on my dropbox.
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2015-12-12, 6:20 PM #4
It's just a real shame that there's no one left on Massassi that knows anything about cog.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2015-12-12, 7:31 PM #5
Originally posted by gbk:
It's just a real shame that there's no one left on Massassi that knows anything about cog.


agreed
2015-12-12, 11:14 PM #6
Originally posted by Ruthven:
12 years too late, or is it longer? Yes its a different world, of 7zip compression and fast connections.
Let me know when you want to download it, and I'll clear room on my dropbox.


I'm open.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2015-12-13, 9:08 AM #7
Alternatively, I can create a shared folder on my Dropbox account for you, so you don't have to remove anything from your own (I've got plenty of free space on mine).
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2015-12-13, 3:45 PM #8
theres tons of stuff that works already. I learned to cog from GBK and experimenting. I'm proud of my weapon cogs, but GBK said they were awful. He just hatin' my leet skills. (srsly my code is messy af)

Its just a question of throwing stuff around. theres gobs in the jed exodus folder, i think thats the stuff that makes it work.

Its open season: 1.1 gigs
Have fun fellas

https://www.dropbox.com/s/073hz8bmhjeopmw/JKSG1Ruthven.7z?dl=0
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2015-12-13, 5:10 PM #9
Originally posted by Ruthven:
I'm proud of my weapon cogs, but GBK said they were awful.

Wait, I actually said that? Kak damn, I'm a monster.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2015-12-13, 11:28 PM #10
Quote:
Kak damn


Implying that Kak is god?
2015-12-13, 11:40 PM #11
Cheers, Ruthven!

After all these years.. ;')
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2015-12-14, 12:10 AM #12
Originally posted by gbk:
It's just a real shame that there's no one left on Massassi that knows anything about cog.

If the reference material is decent & well-organized, how hard can it be? At a glance it appears that anyone familiar with C would be nearly at home with COG.
? :)
2015-12-14, 2:11 AM #13
I probably could have learned about COGs when I first got here if I wasn't busy being retarded with Jedi Outcast.
2015-12-14, 2:59 AM #14
I've read this thread and I still don't know whether this is a joke or not.
Magrucko Daines and the Crypt of Crola (2007)
Magrucko Daines and the Dark Youth (2010)
Magrucko Daines and the Vertical City (2016)
2015-12-14, 3:17 AM #15
Originally posted by Goit:
I've read this thread and I still don't know whether this is a joke or not.


Jokedile was being kroktastic when he interpreted my words of "I really might end up messing around with it just for kicks." as "I'm gonna take a shot at editing this!" for the sake of this thread.

For that matter, I've already ended up messing around with it just for kicks. For instance, going to the level directories, adding some "missing" levels to the episode.jk, compiling the GOB and checking those levels out. And boy do I adore Ruthven's version of DFLT.mat. :D

(Not gonna lie, though, the thought "you know, what if I took this build that has most of the new guns working, disabled the ones that don't - same with the "Force Powers", take some of the levels (more or less the most coherent and lively ones, perhaps even one of the Stargater base ones as well), wrap them up somehow in a DM pack and/or use the resources for a custom Stargateish FGR map etc." did cross my mind.)
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2015-12-14, 11:46 AM #16
Well, I think I've looked through most of the main levels and GOB files (including plethora of new guns etc.).

Honestly put, at the very least (coming from a CheapGamerr such as myself) one could take certain single player maps, add in some (Jaffa) enemies, possibly a bit of new archi to keep things tight and an excuse plot of "oh no, enemies in the facility! restore power, get to floor X, activate the stargate and GET OUT" and you'd have an incredibly short doze of single player action (in the vein of TODOA 2: Duel at Belga Jer, in fact - except better) that would showcase the wonderfully detailed and refined Ruthven archi and gameplay, and still be a relatively nicely playable SP mod (without having to skim through all the project files to pick out the fleshier parts).

This way you'd have more or less the quickest, shortest and possibly most stable SP version of the material available of this mod..... but, of course, it would really have nothing to do with the mod's original planned storyline and gameplay - not to mention be barely related to Stargate at all (for instance, I've only seen the pilot episode and that was way back in 2007).

To make things more interesting, you might be able to add some of the new weapons to still keep the mod relatively stable, and seem more like a TC rather than just a JK mod. Yet trying to implement all the new weapons available (or even include those from 2008 that I couldn't find from any of the GOB files and wouldn't probably know how to implement in-game anyhow even if I found them) would need a lot of hard work and troubleshooting (COGs, static.jkl, etc.). Not to mention trying to implement the new gameplay mechanics (e.g. abilities as replacements for Force powers)... of course, if one went with my "ultra-quick" method, there would really be no need for those gameplay mechanics.

(Addendum to the strikethrough'd part: I found those 2008-made guns after all. Woo! In fact, I think I prefer them to the 2004-2006 ones ;))

And then we have this outdoor level. Once again, in theory you could sort out a semi-interesting DM Duel map out of it (probably not include in the single player scenario I mentioned earlier, since it would clash with the Stargate bunker maps). No idea if it's related to my computer&/Windows 10&/the TODOA TC patch that I'm using, but I couldn't really get it to work that smoothly on my computer (seemed like there were a lot of 3DOs overlapping with multiple sectors et al, so a lot of things were just disappearing... and the trees' transparency textures were weird).

tl;dr: You could get something playable out of the material available with relatively minimal work, especially if you only focus on the levels and maybe a few weapons.

But all in all, I can't help but be impressed that all of this was made for JK by one guy, and it'd certainly be a fantastic mod if it got to 100% completion. Not to mention it also shows that Ruthven's talents are way beyond JK and he shouldn't let JK drag him down ever again. ;)

At any rate, I'm thankful that after all these years, I could check this project out. Thanks, Ruthven!
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2015-12-14, 12:25 PM #17
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
And then we have this outdoor level.

I'm ashamed that my only contribution to that thread was to suggest that it would never be released. This should have been my post:

HOLY ****ING **** THAT'S INCREDIBLE HOW THE HELL IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE IN JK RUTHY IS SOME KIND OF GOD OR GENIE OR SOMETHING KAK DAMN I THINK MY MIND IS BLOWN IS THIS REALLY HAPPENING WHY AM I BLEEDING FROM MY EARS AND WHAT'S THAT SMELL JESUS CHRIST I THINK I JUST **** MYSELF ****ING HELL I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I'M LOOKING AT I CAN'T TRUST MY EYES ANYMORE MAYBE SANTA CLAUSE REALLY DOES EXIST AND WHAT ABOUT THE TOOTH FAIRY IF THIS **** IS POSSIBLE ALL BETS ARE OFF MAYBE I COULD EVEN FIND AN ATTRACTIVE WOMAN THAT WOULD BE INTERESTED IN ME WAIT NO THAT'S TAKING IT TOO FAR BUT HOLY **** THIS LEVEL AND THAT BUSH ****ING HELL RUTHY THAT BUSH IS INCREDIBLE HOW THE HELL DID YOU DO THAT IS IT KEYFRAME BASED I THINK I MIGHT BE IN LOVE WITH YOU WILL YOU MARRY ME AND BEAR MY RUTHYCHILDREN I CAN'T AFFORD A BIG WEDDING AND I'M NOT ACTUALLY GAY BUT YOU TOTALLY WON ME OVER WITH THAT RINGS TRANSPORTER EFFECT AND THAT GLIDER SHADOW IS PERFECT AND THE VEGETATION IS THE BEST I'VE EVER SEEN IN JK AND THE TREES IN THE BACKGROUND ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE A FOREST AND THIS IS ALL ACTUALLY INGAME AND PLAYABLE I KNOW IT'S A TC SO IT PROBABLY WON'T EVER GET RELEASED BUT HOLY **** IT MAKES ME WANT TO BELIEVE IN THE IMPOSSIBLE AND HOLY ****ING **** THAT'S INCREDIBLE HOW THE HELL IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE IN JK...

And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2015-12-14, 12:53 PM #18
You weren't wrong.
2015-12-14, 1:02 PM #19
Originally posted by Jon`C:
You weren't wrong.

I really wish I was, though. The best things in life happen when pessimists are wrong.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2015-12-14, 2:55 PM #20
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
And then we have this outdoor level.!


Oh my Zed... those screencaps! They bring back such a rush, so many memories of jerking off to 1% finished projects. So many bittersweet memories of firing up JK to run around aborted attempts to create an actual level that isn't just a box with high resolution 16-bit MATS.
2015-12-14, 6:49 PM #21
tbh I think i managed about 40% of the entire single player levels.
There was 3-4 levels in sg1 base.
Then there were 3 outdoor levels (waterfall, market, offworld base)
And then there was the hatakh level.

I dont really remember the story line.
It would be many hours to get it working, the weapons are worth playing with. and the jaffa used to work. the firefights were pretty intense.
But the engine just would let me load everything. memory issues.

I carried on my habit of making unfinishable projects.
I helped create skywind, the morrowind remake, but after 5000 assets (3000 ish models) i ran out of steam.
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2015-12-14, 8:21 PM #22
Originally posted by Ruthven:
But the engine just would let me load everything.

It couldn't handle your extreme awesomeness.

[http://www.abrsm.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif]
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2015-12-16, 3:40 PM #23
I've been reviewing COG with the little reference that is still online, and I think I could code stuff in it for a project, but I don't have a way to test any of it, I lost my copy of JK a long time ago, plus, I would probably be asking quite a few questions here and there, i.e. from the reference I have found, COG doesn't have arrays? I have yet to see examples of concatenation? Are there 2D drawing commands for the viewport? and others...

EDIT: Just found how to concatenate...
Nothing to see here, move along.
2015-12-16, 4:07 PM #24
Originally posted by SF_GoldG_01:
.e. from the reference I have found, COG doesn't have arrays? I have yet to see examples of concatenation? Are there 2D drawing commands for the viewport? and others...

EDIT: Just found how to concatenate...


You appear to be under the impression that COG is useful for making any computer program that is not Jedi Knight.
2015-12-17, 2:32 AM #25
Originally posted by SF_GoldG_01:
I lost my copy of JK a long time ago.

Steam has JKDF2 for 6€. However, the Steam Holiday sale should begin shortly, & you'll probably be able to grab the entire Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series for that price.
? :)
2015-12-17, 3:13 AM #26
No, but previous to looking things up, I thought you had basic things such as arrays, structs, maybe even classes? After all, it is supposed to be C like... but all I can see in common with C are curly brackets. Anyhow, it looks like it will be great fun using this to do things that were not possible before. I'd still have to see how it works, I always had an idea for a JK map where people had to run a maze, and another player was opening and closing doors from a control room, activating traps, etc (lots of switches), and whoever got to the room would become the next control room king.
Nothing to see here, move along.
2015-12-17, 4:47 AM #27
Originally posted by SF_GoldG_01:
...

There's a work-around for arrays. C doesn't have classes either.

Quote:
COG
The rest of this article focuses on the language problems and solutions that we used in creating the 3D action-adventure game JEDI KNIGHT: DARK FORCES 2 for the PC.

For the JEDI KNIGHT language, christened COG by the designers, we chose to implement a custom, compiled language that closely resembled the syntax of C. Using the C syntax as a starting point, we removed most of the obscure keywords and constructs and even removed some fairly major portions of the language dealing with function declarations and switch statements because they were significantly more complex to parse and execute than the rest of the language. We chose the C language as a starting point because of its familiarity and the wealth of books and tutorials available teach the language to nonprogrammers.

Just as in C, the syntax of the COG language is less important than library of functions at its disposal. The COG library provides about a hundred different functions to the author, ranging from environment manipulation commands to information queries. The author uses these functions to control the game environment while using the language syntax to provide branching and looping control.

The game engine executes the scripts in an event-driven manner. For example, when two objects collide with each other in the physics engine, any COG scripts linked to either object receive a "touched" event. This event contains parameters that allow the script to identify which objects were involved in the event and the type of event that occurred. Based on this information, the script can manipulate the game state in whatever manner it wishes, or can simply ignore the event. COG scripts can also contain links to each other, which enable them to exchange messages. These events make up the primary interface between the engine and the language system.
[TABLE="width: 480, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, colspan: 2, align: center"] TABLE 1. Sample COG event messages
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 123, bgcolor: #ccc999"] Messages
[/TD]
[TD="width: 357, bgcolor: #ccc999"] Description
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 123"]Touched
[/TD]
[TD="width: 357, colspan: 2"]An object or surface was touched by another object. References to both collision participants can be retrieved.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 123"]Entered
[/TD]
[TD="width: 357"]For sectors, called each time a new object enters the sector[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 123"]Damaged
[/TD]
[TD="width: 357"]Called whenever the object would take damage from weapons or explosions. References to the cause of the damage and the type of damage are provided to the handler.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 123"]Created
[/TD]
[TD="width: 357"]Called on a new object when it if first created[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 123"]Killed
[/TD]
[TD="width: 357"]Called when the object is about to be removed from the game[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 123"]Crossed
[/TD]
[TD="width: 357, colspan: 2"]Called for an adjoin plane whenever an object crosses it[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 123"]Arrived
[/TD]
[TD="width: 357, colspan: 2"]Called when a moving object reaches its destination[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 123"]Timer
[/TD]
[TD="width: 357"]A timer event set by the script has expired[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 123"]Sighted
[/TD]
[TD="width: 357"]An object is seen by the player for the first time[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

There are additional messages that are delivered directly to the COG script rather than through the objects to which a COG script is linked. A startup message is sent to each COG script at the start of a level, and a respawn message is sent each time the local player dies. Each game object also has the ability to set a repeating pulse event or a one-time timer event to be delivered at some point in the future. This allows a combination of event-driven and scheduled execution.

Because we removed the standard C syntax for function declarations from our language for simplicity, each script is organized much like a large switch statement. The entry points into the code for various types of events are labeled using the standard C label syntax. Also, because COG expanded on the standard C variable types with the addition of game-specific resource variables (sector, thing, sound, and so on), the script variables are declared in a special header. The level editor (LEIA, shown in Figure 2) also reads this header so it can display the symbols to the designers and allow them to view edit the symbol values.




http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131641/adding_languages_to_game_engines.php


? :)
2015-12-17, 8:19 AM #28
Originally posted by SF_GoldG_01:
No, but previous to looking things up, I thought you had basic things such as arrays, structs, maybe even classes? After all, it is supposed to be C like... but all I can see in common with C are curly brackets. Anyhow, it looks like it will be great fun using this to do things that were not possible before. I'd still have to see how it works, I always had an idea for a JK map where people had to run a maze, and another player was opening and closing doors from a control room, activating traps, etc (lots of switches), and whoever got to the room would become the next control room king.


That level is possible with JK.
2015-12-17, 10:43 AM #29
I think what people are saying here is: if you don't have something you want to finish for JK, don't start editing it now or EVER.

(That's what I'm saying. In fact, that's what I said)
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2015-12-17, 11:03 AM #30
I'm gonna start a new JK project tonight just to defy you, Nikumubeki.


Originally posted by SF_GoldG_01:
No, but previous to looking things up, I thought you had basic things such as arrays, structs, maybe even classes?


I actually laughed out loud when I read this. No, no, COG is extremely limited in functionality. Something that we call arrays is possible, but the rest definitely aren't. There are multiple "data types" but they're all represented by doubles internally (IIRC).
I distinctly remember the time between the announcement of Jedi Outcast and the release, desperately hoping that it would include a new, complex scripting language to replace the broken dog that is COG. We were sadly disappointed.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2015-12-17, 11:46 AM #31
You mean COG isn't a mid-level language?
>>untie shoes
2015-12-17, 1:10 PM #32
COG is a domain specific language for creating a game called Jedi Knight.
2015-12-17, 2:19 PM #33
Originally posted by Mentat:
There's a work-around for arrays. C doesn't have classes either.

Quite right, C doesn't have classes. I have a question regarding those arrays:

If I understand it correctly, what you're doing here is simply selecting the variable that is offset [n] declarations from the identifier? Since all variables must be declared in the symbols header, you can't create new ones on the fly, forcing you to have your arrays always being fixed length, so I can imagine this led to situations where you had enormous pseudo arrays just in case you ran out of space.


Originally posted by Jon`C:
That level is possible with JK.

Originally posted by gbk:
I'm gonna start a new JK project tonight just to defy you, Nikumubeki.

Make the MP level I described above!
Nothing to see here, move along.
2015-12-17, 3:10 PM #34
And then let sf_gold take credit for it.
>>untie shoes
2015-12-17, 5:16 PM #35
Originally posted by SF_GoldG_01:
Quite right, C doesn't have classes. I have a question regarding those arrays:

If I understand it correctly, what you're doing here is simply selecting the variable that is offset [n] declarations from the identifier? Since all variables must be declared in the symbols header, you can't create new ones on the fly, forcing you to have your arrays always being fixed length, so I can imagine this led to situations where you had enormous pseudo arrays just in case you ran out of space.


Yes to the former, no to the latter.

There is a hard limit on the number of variables you can have. This is because JK never needed many variables, and COG is a domain specific language for creating JK.

If a modder needed variable length arrays they would use the heap verbs. But these verbs were never used in JK and may not work right, because JK never needed variable length arrays, and COG is a domain specific language for creating JK.

Note that I am an authority on COG. To date I have written three interpreters for the language and a static analyzer. All of which actually work and have been used to play through all of the levels.

Trust me when I tell you this: approaching COG like it is a real language is a mistake. Missing features is just the start; COG has subtly broken versions of a lot of things you take for granted in other languages, and almost no diagnostics to tell you where something went wrong. It is very normal for an experienced software developer to write a COG that is broken without even realizing what they have done. COG is a poorly designed language and it is best to avoid using it whenever possible.

Go learn unity or something.
2015-12-17, 6:46 PM #36
What little cog I did helped me with fortran code classes in University, just barely, and only in terms of logic/structure.
Anyway, the cogs mostly work. maybe one or 2 fixes would create more working levels but mostly its the size limit and engine that was the issue.

I'm hoping someone gets parts of it working, then records it and uploads it to youtube so i can relive my nerdy virgin teens.

As a soppy side note, for those who were encouraging towards me back in the day with the mod, thank you.
Although i was pushed into astrophysics, in the end i left, and pursued 3d art, my main passion. Didnt start till I was 25 properly, now at 31 I have worked my arse off and love my job. And it all started here, making mods for star wars to avoid the stresses of unhappy school life and broken home :D

ps. ps.
Totally pissed they cancelled SGU. I thought it was outstanding.
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2015-12-17, 9:03 PM #37
Originally posted by Ruthven:
ps. ps.
Totally pissed they cancelled SGU. I thought it was outstanding.

Same here, but that might only be because I had a huge crush on Elyse Levesque.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2015-12-18, 12:08 AM #38
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Go learn unity or something.

This. Even if you create the coolest effin' mod in JK history, about 25 people will play it, & that's being generous. I think it's great that people that have been around for awhile still toy with JK, but to start effin' with it now, is masochism. Don't let nostalgia & romanticism trick your brain into thinking that editing JK is a good decision. Unity & UE4 have active editing communities with a high volume of quality tutorials. Hell, with Blueprints & Marketplace for UE4, you can probably get a prototype up & running with very little knowledge of programming.
? :)
2015-12-18, 5:29 PM #39
Originally posted by SF_GoldG_01:
I'd still have to see how it works, I always had an idea for a JK map where people had to run a maze, and another player was opening and closing doors from a control room, activating traps, etc (lots of switches), and whoever got to the room would become the next control room king.


You are going to like the last puzzle in the Galactopticon JK mod...
Cordially,
Lord Tiberius Grismath
1473 for '1337' posts.
2015-12-19, 10:55 AM #40
Speaking of Stargate, here's a strategy mod

http://www.moddb.com/mods/stargate-empire-at-war

Compare this model from that mod

[http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/9/8387/Units_Goauld_Serpent_Guard_Render.jpg]

To the one made by Ruthven about 10 years ago

[http://jkhub.net/project/screens/project-56-xHmlmvF9ws.jpg]

Ahead of his time, that clan ruthervain was!
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
12

↑ Up to the top!