Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 207

Thread: The Force Awakens Discussion (with SPOILERS)

  1. #1

    The Force Awakens Discussion (with SPOILERS)

    'Tis the morning after and I' ve got to admit that I have mixed feelings about this movie. I loved the acting. The casting was spot on. I really liked most of the characters. But the story was severely lacking. It felt like quickly connected loose ideas with a lot forced fanservice thrown in. The search for Luke was just thrown in to have him in the story and to have a "reason" for the movie to exist. The rest had nothing to do with it. It was just yet another superweapon, which killed a bunch of planets nobody cared about, which was destroyed as quickly as it was announced. In ANH the Deathstar plans where at least the main story point, giving it a real purpose. In TFA Starkiller Base was just thrown in to have a location for awesome fight scenes.

    But I love that Kylo Ren's real name is Ben, as that is my son's name as well.
    Sorry for the lousy German

  2. #2
    If you noticed... I spilled the beans back in the original thread a while back, because pretty much the entire film was spoiled SEVERAL months ago. I can say this, I have very mixed feelings on the film as well. There were moments that I completely loved, like Rey's vision (I don't know how to use spoiler tags, so stop reading if you don't want to find out more), and a couple other, but generally... the film just felt disjointed... it felt like there was a lot of material cut from the film, I don't know how to explain it. The thing that bugged me the most, is how the film never seems to slow down, and when it does, it's right on the tip of starting to run again. I will go see it a few more times of course, just to absorb everything and get used to the pacing.

    Adam Driver is weak once he takes off the mask (he does not look evil, to me anyhow)... he's confusing. Why is he so conflicted? He has these massive fits of rage (acting like a spoiled brat) but he cries before he kills his father?

    I thought Finn was awesome, my favorite new character, and Rey did a great job too... but how the hell do you learn to reverse force mind torture without any prior training right as someone, who is very experienced, is doing said torture to you? How do you become skilled with a lightsaber, having never picked one up before? These are the parts that better have a good explanation in the next film (i.e. the knowledge was inside her already, but needed to be unlocked, or Luke was helping her through the force whatever).

    Snoke... well Snoke is weird. Is he Plaguies (hope not)? Is he a Sith? Is he a Knight of Ren? Is he Ren? What is he? Why do Leia and Han throw his name around so easily?

    The film leaves WAY TOO MANY questions unanswered, jerks you around, and sells some characters short (Captain Phasma)... but in the end... yes... it's still better than the damn prequels.
    Last edited by SF_GoldG_01; 12-17-2015 at 06:09 AM.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by SF_GoldG_01 View Post
    Adam Driver is weak once he takes off the mask (he does not look evil, to me anyhow)... he's confusing. Why is he so conflicted? He has these massive fits of rage (acting like a spoiled brat) but he cries before he kills his father?
    I loved Adam Driver as Kylo Ren. He's a wannabe, but in a good way. He really sold this idea of a guy craving the power for power's sake. Dangerous and unstable. I'm really looking forward to how he will have changed in Episode VIII.

    I thought Finn was awesome, my favorite new character, and Rey did a great job too... but how the hell do you learn to reverse force mind torture without any prior training right as someone, who is very experienced, is doing said torture to you? How do you become skilled with a lightsaber, having never picked one up before? These are the parts that better have a good explanation in the next film (i.e. the knowledge was inside her already, but needed to be unlocked, or Luke was helping her through the force whatever).
    I really didn't like how fast she got the hang of the force. Not even Anakin Skywalker learned so fast. So unless she is the real chosen one, now really really really this time, we promise, I don't see how her abilities can fit into the other movies.
    Sorry for the lousy German

  4. #4
    I'll give it a 8/10 rating.

    To put it most succinctly: It was as if J. J. Abrams had realized his own vision of a Star Wars film.

    It definitely had a Star Wars flair to it, no doubt, but I think it made me realize how much George Lucas really is in all of the previous movies (Episodes 1-6). Funnily enough, some of the setpieces reminded me of Dark Forces more than any of the other films, which may or may not be related to the whole "SW as if made by someone else" feeling it had all around.

    Not really aiming to make an in-depth (perhaps a semi-in-depth) review of the film, but yes, I liked it enough and am interested in seeing how it's gonna continue from where it left off. Should be nice.

    So the rest of my thoughts in miscellaneous order:
    • Why didn't they just call their new planet-destroying superweapon the Sun Crusher? Visually (or even technically) similar to the one in the books or not, it would have been a perfect reference.
    • Snoke? Come on now, really? THIS GUY LOOKS SNAKEISH AND HIS NAME IS SNOKE.
    • I'm somewhat surprised that "Han Solo's and Leia's son turns evil" is now a part of SW canon. Didn't really expect that. Also, I liked how the Kylo Ren/Ben (Solo) character really seemed like he was trying too hard ("I will be just like you, grandarth Vader!") whereas there was some really normal (and British) looking guy beneath the mask.
    • I was also surprised that they went with the "Han Solo dies" thing after all, it was more or less one of the only then-rumors that I had read from anywhere. Also, I thought there was really no chance for Kylo to turn GOOD on the spot since the snow forest battle scene hadn't taken place yet. (Granted that there were plenty of other scenes from the trailers that didn't appear exactly as such in the movie, like Kylo actually holding Vader's mask, but still)
    • Snoke? Really?
    • Some fo the scenes really felt like contrived coincidences (which, in-universe could be attributed to the Force acting oh-so-mysteriously) like: "Hey! The Falcon's there! Hey! Han and Chewie are here! Hey! I found my father's(?) lightsaber in a garagethe storage and that makes me a Jedi!". On the other hand, some scenes just really dragged on for too long.
    • The random mention of "why not use the Clone Army" near the beginning made me wonder if it was an intentional reference to the prequels (as in: "Yes, they're canon, don't complain") and/or if they were referring to the same Kaminoan clone troopers after all.
    • Snoke!? f'n really!?
    • On the other hand, I thought that the scenes where Evil Redhead and Kylo Ren were interacting with the Supreme Slitnose were way more reminiscent of TODOA than ESB >_> <_<
    • Yes, the scenes where Han and Leia were reunited and classic songs from the OT soundtracks were played warmed my heart, but it also made me realize that even though the trailer had music that did instantly impress me instead of the going-all-over-the-place orchestra stuff in the prequels - I can't really remember any tracks from this film either. I think Kylo Ren had some kind of a leitmotif because it sounded familiar to me at some point, but eh.
    • Funny how in the old SWEU, Chewie was the one to die and Han survived whereas in the current Canon, it's the other way around. Poor Chewie.
    • Where was Jar-Jar?

    I do remember actually having some other thoughts as well, but those are the ones I currently remember.


    I didn't stay in the theatre to wait and see if there was a post-credits scene. Perhaps I'll go see it a second time, but unlike The Dark Knight which I just HAD TO SEE A SECOND TIME since I was quite confused by it, this one was pretty straightforward.

  5. #5
    ALL GLORY TO THE CONTEST WINNER

    Posts
    17,915
    I really liked it, all the new characters were brilliant.

    That said, it was basically a remake of ANH and you could see Han dying for a mile off but that just had my heart racing with OMG DON'T KILL HAN SOLO.

  6. #6
    ALL GLORY TO THE CONTEST WINNER

    Posts
    17,915
    Oh yeah, the problem with unmasked Adam Driver for me was all I could think was "Oh look it's Adam from Girls".

  7. #7
    It's Stuart, Martha Stuart
    Posts
    7,853
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikumubeki View Post
    I'll give it a 8/10 rating.

    • I was also surprised that they went with the "Han Solo dies" thing after all, it was more or less one of the only then-rumors that I had read from anywhere. Also, I thought there was really no chance for Kylo to turn GOOD on the spot since the snow forest battle scene hadn't taken place yet. (Granted that there were plenty of other scenes from the trailers that didn't appear exactly as such in the movie, like Kylo actually holding Vader's mask, but still)

    That was a given for non-plot reasons unfortunately. Harrison Ford has been uninterested in acting for a while, saying that does it strictly for the money, and it took quite a lot of convincing to get him to come back for this one.

  8. #8
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
    LAWL

    Posts
    10,289
    I enjoyed it immensely. It is a Star Wars movie through and through, and a very good one.

    If you don't like it, I honestly feel sorry for you, because you either have a really bizarre and grandiose view of what Star Wars actually is as a movie series, or you just hate things that are fun.
    >>untie shoes

  9. #9
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
    LAWL

    Posts
    10,289
    Also: sf_gold's film comprehension and critique stills are still comically awful.
    >>untie shoes

  10. #10
    Finn held his own surprisingly well using a lightsaber against a trained dark jedi... considering his only training would have been with blasters and sewers
    eat right, exercise, die anyway

  11. #11
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
    LAWL

    Posts
    10,289
    Is there a garbage chute? Trash compactor?
    >>untie shoes

  12. #12
    The Force Awakens did feel an awful like A New Hope 2.0, which in the grand scheme of things, isn't terrible. They played it mostly safe, and it worked well enough. I enjoyed the movie quite a lot: it had some AMAZING visual setups, the new characters felt mostly compelling and the old ones felt welcomed. Han in particular gave some good Han-y moments, and his death was touching despite its predictability -- that arguably made it more touching in a way.

    There were some jokes that felt too "modern" ("Is this the part where you interrogate me?" for example), though some were hilarious ("That's not how you use the Force!"). I had a difficult time understanding the political backdrop and how The First Order/Resistance/New Republic came out of the Rebellion/Empire; the transition between Republic and Empire was far easier to grasp. Snoke (yeah, that seems awkward to say to say the least) seems an odd piece too, though the actual scenes with him were interesting enough.

    The music I also agree wasn't 'memorable' like in most of the other movies. Maybe the prequels were too bombastic, but at least it was memorable and drove the emotions. Admittedly, that may largely be because the theme of this movie was largely more subdued, which was nice. Seeing 'whimsy' and liveliness in certain scenes without throwing so much CG crap also gave it a lot of welcomed "Star Wars" character to it.

    I also felt Finn and Rey had odd skill sets. Finn held his own well against Kylo Ren a little better than I thought he should, and Rey's powers seem a bit too powerful for someone who isn't a 'chosen one' or the like.

    I REALLY liked Kylo Ren and the actor's talent for him. As mentioned earlier, he does "power hungry wannabe" in a good way, and it's enjoyable to watch.

    Also, Luke keeps on a lot of weight for someone living on a tiny island for so many years.
    The Plothole: a home for amateur, inclusive, collaborative stories
    http://forums.theplothole.net

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconfish View Post
    Oh yeah, the problem with unmasked Adam Driver for me was all I could think was "Oh look it's Adam from Girls".
    No, its SAJN.



    Alright, its Star Wars through a different lens, going a different way, and shot a helluva lot better than the prequels were.

    - What the hell was Finn's childhood like if he retained THAT much personality?
    - British Space Nazis!
    - I wish they had said the new evil weapon was a friggin planet, you couldn't tell until the Falcon lands on it. The shot when Kylo returns initially to the base made me think he went to a different location entirely.
    - This movie is a Han Solo Adventures book from a side character's perspective. IV through VI was the Luke version, I through III was Obiwan's.
    - The Falcon must have been just about to blast off based on the supplies and how ready to go it was. Is that what the junkdealer was collecting crap for? Fixing that bucket of bolts?
    - Hell, the Falcon is like a Mustang or Camaro that a guy has in his garage and its three weeks before the car show.
    - Kylo Ren looks like SAJN. I can't unsee it.
    - The Force Vision was cool and perfectly executed.
    - Kylo's freakouts were perfect for conveying how unstable he is.
    - Snoke has a metric ton of hubris for the size of that projection, bet he's undersized and not a Force user
    - I knew Harrison Ford wasn't going to stand to make three movies with all the BS he puts up with.
    - Chewie was alright.
    - Dialogue was shoddy.
    - Fanservice all over.
    - No Mandos, I'm alright with that. Clone Wars screwed them up long ago and if they aren't Karen Traviss Mandos, I don't want them. I can see them coming in for hunting Luke down.
    - The YOUR FATHER, HAN SOLO, bit was crap. ruins the reveal they could have had LATER when Han sees Leia and says he saw their son that would've been a better emotional tie rather than some self hate scene and heavy handed explanation by Snoke, some dude we don't have any connection with yet.
    - The Poe character is completely useless outside of getting the X-wing movie a step up and fanservice to the people that love X-wing scenes.
    - No X-wing cockpit deaths. You have no idea who died this time.
    - Losing two X-wings apparently means you lost half your fleet. Didn't like, 7 X-wings leave with the Falcon?
    - MAX VON SYDOW
    - What the hell planet(s)/moons did the Starkiller destroy? Was the Resistance base on a moon? A different planet in the system? Was that Coruscant? Why did we learn only one planet name within the movie?
    - Its like when a new author comes into a comic or book series and they rummage around and use what they want.
    - I didn't LOVE it, its okay, I'll see where it leads.



    - Favorite moment is the Troopers that just walk away from Kylo flipping out.
    Last edited by genk; 12-18-2015 at 01:13 AM.
    Holy soap opera Batman. - FGR
    DARWIN WILL PREVENT THE DOWNFALL OF OUR RACE. - Rob
    Free Jin!

  14. #14
    ALL GLORY TO THE CONTEST WINNER

    Posts
    17,915
    Oh yeah, the lightsaber.

    Is it like, the one Luke lost along with his hand on Bespin then?

  15. #15
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
    LAWL

    Posts
    10,289
    Yes

  16. #16
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
    LAWL

    Posts
    10,289
    How did she get it? We don't know.

    And that's fine. It's just fine.

    I cannot emphasize that point enough. The last three Star Wars movies we got where nothing but arbitrary exposition of every single mundane detail in the entire goddamn universe.

    Wanna know where C3PO came from? You figured he was just a protocol droid that they encountered at some point? Hahaha. Hell no. Anakin built him.

    How about R2D2? Yep, it turns out he just happened to be the R2 unit that saved Anakin's future wife's escaping ship, and then they immediately landed on Anakin's home planet where he meets C3PO.

    Later on, after Anakin left home, 3PO accompanied his mom to the Lars homestead, where he served her new husband and stepchildren, Owen and Beru, who will later have no recollection of ever having owned a protocol droid, and will specifically say that they have absolutely no need for one.

    Wanna know where Boba Fett came from? He happens to be the genetically identical son of the guy the people who made all of the stormtroopers who later won't actually be the stormtroopers used to make the clones that they gave to the Republic despite absolutely no one in the republic having authorized such an order.

    Wanna know how the force works? It's little blood parasites! No further explanation needed.

    Wanna know why 3PO doesn't remember any of this? Leia's foster-father arbitrarily instructs his memory to be wiped.

    We sat through three movies of having things painfully explained in the dumbest ways possible, with fans *****ing about it saying that the force was better when it was a mystery, and that Boba Fett was better when he was a mystery, and that all this stuff was better when it was just vague mysticism. We said how we didn't need to know where Boba Fett came from. He was just a badass looking dude who was there for a bit. That's enough. No backstory or character development needed. We said we didn't need all the political intrigue and incessant explanations of all the layers of the plot, because it was good enough to just have the bad guys trying to do bad things and have the good guys stop them. It was good enough to just have characters that you like fighting to beat characters you hate.

    On and on and on and on, we talked about all the things that are wrong with the prequels in comparison to the original trilogy, and then JJ Abrams comes along and makes a movie that is almost to a staggering degree the exact thing the fans had said they wanted all along. The force is mysterious again.

    How did Rey do the things she did? Damn. We don't know, but I bet we'll find out.
    Remember that time that Luke was able to just shoot a torpedo from the hip into a tiny exhaust vent, and no one spoon-fed the reason why to you? Yeah. You accepted it because The Force, god dammit.

    Who is Kylo Ren and why is he the way he is? Well, he's Han and Leia's son, but we don't know why he is the way he is. I bet we'll find out.
    Remember that time that we didn't know a damned thing about Darth Vader other than "he betrayed and murdered your father" and that he has a penchant for choking people who annoy him? Yeah, you accepted that because he's badass, god dammit.

    Why did they make such a big deal out of Captain Phasma if she was only going to be onscreen for a few minutes, say a few lines, be treated like she's a badass even though we never see her do anything badass, and then get put on a bus in a comical fashion?
    I don't know. Why did you make such a big deal out of Boba Fett when he was only onscreen for a few minutes, said a few lines, was treated like he's a badass even though we never see him do anything badass, and then gets put on a bus in a comical fashion?

    George Lucas made three movies to exactly his imagination, explaining everything you'd ever wanted to know about the characters and the world, and it practically ruined the entire thing. JJ Abrams made a movie that has likable characters painted in broad strokes regarding a galaxy in turmoil with a hapless jackass, an orphaned outcast, and an ace fighter pilot acting as the heroes. The orphaned outcast's mentor is killed in front of her, decides to devote her life to some justice, and seeks out a long-forgotten Jedi master to train in the ways of the force.

    I'm sorry. I really am.

    If you don't like this movie: You don't like Star Wars. You like what you've convinced yourself Star Wars is, which is something that it never was.

    This movie is a Star Wars movie, and it's a good one. It's the first of either we've had in 33 years.
    >>untie shoes

  17. #17
    It's Stuart, Martha Stuart
    Posts
    7,853
    Quote Originally Posted by genk View Post
    - Kylo's freakouts were perfect for conveying how unstable he is.
    These were really interesting actually. He was shown to have the restraint not to kill underlings if things didn't work out for them. While this is kind of a humorous reference to Vader in ESB, it also shows a new level of pragmatism in the villains. He still has enough control to lash out at objects instead of people. I wonder if the lashing out is a technique to help him embrace the dark side while retaining control of himself?

    - The Poe character is completely useless outside of getting the X-wing movie a step up and fanservice to the people that love X-wing scenes.
    Yeah, I wish he'd fit in to the plot better. But he's a fun character, and he will be needed to balance out the angst of the other two main charters. I get the feeling that it was written by a Wedge fan.


    - Losing two X-wings apparently means you lost half your fleet. Didn't like, 7 X-wings leave with the Falcon?
    They aren't going to show every X-wing destruction on screen. The purpose of this scene is to tell the audience how the battle is going without showing the entire thing.


    - What the hell planet(s)/moons did the Starkiller destroy? Was the Resistance base on a moon? A different planet in the system? Was that Coruscant? Why did we learn only one planet name within the movie?

    The was extremely confusing. I know star wars isn't hard sci-fi, nor does it attempt to deal with relativity in any significant way, but the visual we saw there wasn't coherent. The star-killer base is supposed to be in another star system, yet we see it travel relatively slowly across it's own system. They we see it destroy a planet and some moons from the surface of another planet, which must be in the same star system, I guess? I don't expect hard sci-fi here, but it should at least make intuitive sense compared to our experience with the night sky, otherwise we can't understand what is going on. We can't see mars's moons with the naked eye, so adjacent plant feels wrong. Were they on another further moon? They couldn't have been in another star system, because that makes no intuitive sense at all. This was just kind of a mess.

    Finn held his own surprisingly well using a lightsaber against a trained dark jedi... considering his only training would have been with blasters and sewers


    It makes sense that they would have been given hand to hand combat training. I think a person who is conditioned as a soldier from a child would probably be pretty handy. We know Ren was injured. Ultimately I think his performance gives us important insight into his character. He's trying to fill shoes that he knows are too big for him. He asks for training that his master has been holding back from him, because he knows he is still a bit of an amateur. He has some talent, but he lacks confidence, and as soon as he looses the backing of his troops, we see him for the kid that he is, not the bad-ass he is trying to be. I think that's one of the better aspects of the movie.

  18. #18
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
    LAWL

    Posts
    10,289
    Quote Originally Posted by Obi_Kwiet View Post
    as soon as he looses the backing of his troops, we see him for the kid that he is, not the bad-ass he is trying to be. I think that's one of the better aspects of the movie.
    Yes
    >>untie shoes

  19. #19

    "Has it won yet?"

    Posts
    17,117
    I enjoyed the movie. It was a well-paced Sci-Fi action movie without any real cringe-worthy stuff.

    I liked the characters on the hero side, especially Poe. I think Finn, Ray and even Han was interesting. Harrison Ford seemed to put in some more energy for this role than usual of late, so he didn't come across as lethargic. A bit tired, but not lethargic.

    My favorite character of the villains was General Hux. I liked his fanaticism for the First Order but also his struggles to retain power, especially in the face of things that represent awesome power (Starkiller, the Dark Side). He's a good contrast to Tarkin's cool, calculating demeanor.

    But I didn't like Supreme Leader Snoke. I couldn't enjoy the screentime with the character, and that's besides my feeling that I'm looking at "CGI Face Man" instead of a menacing character. He didn't have anything I could attach as interesting. Anyone feel the same way? Honestly, I rather see Hux and Kylo Ren interact more and push/pull for power than answer to this lousy hologram figure.
    SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
    -----------------------------@%

  20. #20
    I get a feeling we'll see more interaction between Hux and Kylo Ren in the next film... especially with Hux being the only one of the two not to get shot in the gut by a Wookiee, stabbed in the shoulder and slashed in the arm by a space janitor, then nearly having his face sliced off by an untrained jedi in the same afternoon

    being a non force sensitive guy having to save the big bad dark jedi could be something you might hold over said dark jedi's head on occasion
    eat right, exercise, die anyway

  21. #21
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
    LAWL

    Posts
    10,289
    There's something to be said for military bearing and not losing your mind and flying off the handle every time something doesn't go your way.

    Fighting against a person who has spent every minute of her life fighting for her survival can apparently go awry.

    It's pretty interesting that he had just murdered his own father, and the girl who doesn't even know who her parents are knows more about herself than he does. I really enjoy the aspect of Ren's character that he basically doesn't know what he's here for. He knows what he's doing, and he seems to have at least some idea of why he's doing it, but he's lost for a purpose. He's a guy lashing out at a world that he doesn't understand, and he's mad that no matter what he does, he's not getting any closer to understanding it.

    He's a control freak, he's deeply insecure, and he's filled to the brim with conflict. I'd be willing to bet the farm that he turned his back on the Jedi because they don't offer answers. He's a messed up dude, and honestly, I took the lightsaber duel as a sign that he's not nearly as badass and terrifying as he wants everyone to think he is. He's being used, much like his grandfather was, because he can't stand himself.

  22. #22
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
    LAWL

    Posts
    10,289
    Consider what you actually see Kylo Ren do in the movie. He murders two unarmed senior citizens. He lashes out and destroys a number of inanimate objects. He displays a fairly solid grasp of the force. He pulls some people around. Interrogates a guy. Fails to interrogate a girl.

    He has a half-assed lightsaber and a half-assed facsimile of Darth Vader's visage. But what does he actually do that makes him so scary? He kills unarmed people and talks trash to people who are restrained. Otherwise he has men with guns do it for him.

    Yeah, he looks scary with his mask on, and he sounds scary. He talks about doing scary things, and he throws temper tantrums when people get the best of him.

    He's not a badass. He wants people to think he is. Darth Vader was a badass, and that's why he's doing everything in his power to try to be like him. People were afraid of him. People respected him. No one is afraid of Kylo Ren. Not an unarmed old man. Not a captured pilot. Not a scavenger girl, or a rogue stormtrooper. A few passing stormtroopers, sure, but who else is actually intimidated by him? No one.

    He wants to be badass. He wants you to think he's badass. He isn't badass, and Hux is the only one who actually knows it.

  23. #23

    "Has it won yet?"

    Posts
    17,117
    I think people are expecting Kylo Ren to be next Darth Vader and being disappointed. I feel Kylo as a character works well when I think of him as a guy in transition.

    He's inept, flawed and is a walking work-in-progress for the intimidation factor. Honestly, I don't think the series needs another stoic, dark evil guy. And I think he's better than the Prequel's Anakin who transitions into a villain too ****ing fast that it's laughable (despite having three movies to pad this **** out).

    I am going to admit pulling this out of my ass but, from the vibes of the characters, Kylo's position in the First Order system seem to stem just from his powers and not his competence. He's not proactive. Hux openly tries to sidestep him. Stormtroopers rather avoid him, and he is left alone with his Darth Vader fetish. He doesn't seem to manage anything with the Death Planet. There's probably a lot of frustration in that, being kept around (I want to imagine).

    I will say that I liked that he wasn't whiny. That would have killed it for me.
    Last edited by ECHOMAN; 12-19-2015 at 08:56 PM.
    SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
    -----------------------------@%

  24. #24
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
    LAWL

    Posts
    10,289
    Yeah, his relationship with them seems to be one of one-sided benefit from both points of view, if you get what I mean. I feel like both of them think they're using the other to their own ends.

    Yes, he is scary. No, he cannot back it up, and I really like that.
    >>untie shoes

  25. #25
    I liked a lot of it. The rapport between Finn and Poe, and Finn and Rey, and BB-8 and everyone, all great. I really can't wait to see more of those characters.

    A lot of stuff I thought felt pretty undercooked, namely:
    -The SOUND. One thing that the Star Wars movies have always been incredible at (even the prequel movies, for all their flaws) is sound. Every ship sounds distinctive and fascinating, every laser blast and saber hum jumps right down your earholes. But in this movie the sound effects felt...really run of the mill. Apart from the rehashed ones from the older films, all the sound effects felt like they could have been from Star Trek or any other given sci-fi blockbuster. That was pretty disappointing.
    -The plot rushed through some things without selling them at all. Finn abruptly flees the First Order due to a crisis of conscience but has no problem shooting dozens of his former colleagues? The Starkiller blows up a bunch of planets that are all right next to each other and...someone says they destroyed the New Republic? What are these planets? What happened? It went by so fast I had no idea what was going on. If the New Republic is now a legitimate government then why is there a "Resistance" fighting the First Order? Where's the military? It's been decades. I know Star Wars doesn't need to have really thorough worldbuilding but none of it made any sense to me.
    -The amount of echoing of the original movies was a bit too much for me--sure, nostalgia is hot right now, and everyone loved the original movies, but the copy-pasted Death Star plot didn't have the dramatic heft that it did in A New Hope because they spent barely any time setting it up. The movie hits the ground running and throws two or three movies worth of **** at us. And the direct quotes of ANH (e.g. the Stormtroopers saying 'we think they may be splitting up' on the new Death Star) felt like fanfiction.

    The movie felt like it was at its strongest when it was doing new things with new characters, and weakest when it was elbowing the audience in the ribs going "remember A New Hope? That was good right?" I'm gonna go see it again one or two more times, and I think it's a pretty good movie, but it's definitely tripping over itself trying to do too much at once.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Antony View Post
    I enjoyed it immensely. It is a Star Wars movie through and through, and a very good one.

    If you don't like it, I honestly feel sorry for you, because you either have a really bizarre and grandiose view of what Star Wars actually is as a movie series, or you just hate things that are fun.
    Exactly. I went in with high--but realistic--expectations. My expectations were surpassed.

    The fan service is hardly a big deal if you don't let it bother you.

    I was happy that the action sequences weren't tedious and excessively unrealistic. (Compare Obi-Wan getting chased by Jango Fett's missiles to Fin's Tie Fighter getting shot down in a minute or two.)

    Also, the whole map thing reminded me of Valley of the Jedi. :-) Also, the action sequences with the stormtroopers reminded me of Jedi Outcast.

    To those who think the plot wasn't well developed, consider that they had to simultaneously develop new characters for the new films, in addition to tying it to the old movies. If they had tried to do any more, the movie would easily have been four hours long. This film was a superb setup for the new saga.
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 12-21-2015 at 01:32 AM.

  27. #27
    Saw it again today, was feeling much better than at the premiere.

    It was awesome! I have no idea why I got such a wrong impression when I saw it the first time, I must have really been messed up (super dizzy, bad headache, lost my track of time).

    I really appreciated Driver's performance this time around, and loved how everything almost perfectly lead to the next thing. My favorite scene is still the force vision that Rey has when she touches the lightsaber, the way it comes out all of the sudden without any single warning (like when Luke gets his hand cut off), and reveals so much while at the same time seeding mysteries.

    The film is just... powerful! It doesn't feel like a ANH reboot, it feels like a legitimate sequel. I loved it.

    I'm just sad that Abrams won't do the other two, and concerned about what Rian and Colin will do.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

  28. #28
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
    LAWL

    Posts
    10,289
    Her having a vision upon touching the lightsaber was pretty great. There are composites of lines by Ewan McGregor, Alec Guinness, and Yoda in that scene, too.

    As far as 8 & 9 go, Rian Johnson is a brilliant director, and his casting immediately tells us that they'll be following the mold of Empire with the second film.

    You don't hire Rian Johnson if you don't want high-concept existentialism and a dark, powerful mind**** of a movie.

  29. #29
    What I took away from this film was that it was the setup, introducing some new characters and setting the stage for the story surrounding Luke to unfold in the next film.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Antony View Post
    Her having a vision upon touching the lightsaber was pretty great. There are composites of lines by Ewan McGregor, Alec Guinness, and Yoda in that scene, too.

    As far as 8 & 9 go, Rian Johnson is a brilliant director, and his casting immediately tells us that they'll be following the mold of Empire with the second film.

    You don't hire Rian Johnson if you don't want high-concept existentialism and a dark, powerful mind**** of a movie.
    The thing with Rian is that I haven't seen any of his work, and his list of work seems short. With JJ, we had seen Star Trek (2009) and it felt like a great Star Wars movie set in the Star Trek universe. With Colin, I am a little worried because while I enjoyed Jurassic World, it wasn't a film that I wanted to go back and see.

    But I remember, 4 billion USD + production and marketing budgets are tied up in this project, so nobody will be allowed to **** up at all.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

  31. #31
    Likes Kittens. Eats Fluffies
    Posts
    12,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Antony View Post
    As far as 8 & 9 go, Rian Johnson is a brilliant director, and his casting immediately tells us that they'll be following the mold of Empire with the second film.

    Ugh. Empire is ****ing great, yeah, but the 'following the mold' bit is what worries me. Why should the next film necessarily be high-concept existentialism and a dark, powerful mind****? It's not Rian Johnson's ability to execute that which I doubt, it's the studio influence (I hope??) on falling in line with "Empire." Like Thrawn said:

    The movie felt like it was at its strongest when it was doing new things with new characters, and weakest when it was elbowing the audience in the ribs going "remember A New Hope? That was good right?"

  32. #32
    Likes Kittens. Eats Fluffies
    Posts
    12,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    What I took away from this film was that it was the setup, introducing some new characters and setting the stage for the story surrounding Luke to unfold in the next film.
    **** this "entire movies as setups for the second movie" bs that some franchises are doing now.

  33. #33
    Likes Kittens. Eats Fluffies
    Posts
    12,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Antony View Post
    If you don't like it, I honestly feel sorry for you, because you either have a really bizarre and grandiose view of what Star Wars actually is as a movie series, or you just hate things that are fun.
    I'm glad you liked the movie. I really liked it, too, but this sentiment is misguided. There are plenty of perfectly valid reasons for someone to not like it. Your presumptions about their mindset are dumb.

    Unless of course this comment is referring to some specific subgroup of "people who don't like it." Like, I don't know, ubernerds who froth at the mouth because it discards EU canon or people who are upset that every moment of it wasn't the highest of the heights Star Wars has ever reached. This isn't the first time in a massassi movie thread where you've seemingly been arguing against something someone said on a podcast or blog post or other forum, though, so I dunno.

  34. #34
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
    LAWL

    Posts
    10,289
    I'm really not entirely sure what you're mad at.
    >>untie shoes

  35. #35
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
    LAWL

    Posts
    10,289
    I mean, if you don't enjoy TFA being similar to the original trilogy, I have this other set of Star Wars movies that I can recommend to you.
    >>untie shoes

  36. #36
    Kylo Ren is the petulant child that Anakin should have been in the prequels so I'm glad we're getting to see that.

    I loved this movie. It's the gritty used universe that we didnt really get to see in the prequels. The 'myths' in this story feel more like real life rumors you'd hear instead of mystical mumbo jumbo.

    "they built another death star" - except this time it actually kills stars and had a cool destructo sequence!

    Wasn't a huge fan of r2 waking up randomly but meh. some of those story jumps could have been thought out better but WHATEV

    biggest complaint I've heard is "all the fan service." If they didn't have it everyone would have flipped. It felt more like a nice way to ease in a changing of the guards.
    [01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.

  37. #37
    Saberopus is right. Instead of trying to cram in as much 'fan service' and just managing to set up the next trilogy, they could have focused on making the story of this particular film stronger.

    But even without them even trying to do that, my expectations were surpassed. To satisfy Saberopus' standards would have required making a much more ambitious (and unexpected) film. Ultimately, Star Wars is for kids, and if this is the direction the studio wanted to take, I can't be too pissed off about it, since it accomplished its basic objectives.

    In a way, I think they were playing it safe, since the stakes were so high. It was more important simply to avoid making a bad film, than making a superb film (for adults). With people's minds on the prequels, there wasn't much leeway for them to piss people off again.
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 12-21-2015 at 02:50 PM.

  38. #38
    Having said that, I found the film to be genuinely good, for what it is. I had a great time.

    But yeah, I foresee I will like the whole story around Luke and Ren much more than this Han Solo episode. Mark Hamill really seems to give a damn. I still think Harrison Ford did a fantastic job for somebody his age and apathy, though, and enjoyed his performance. I am glad that he finally got what he wanted.

    I'm a little worried that Carrie Fisher doesn't seem to be all there.
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 12-21-2015 at 02:46 PM.

  39. #39
    Likes Kittens. Eats Fluffies
    Posts
    12,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    To satisfy Saberopus' standards would have required making a much more ambitious (and unexpected) film.
    I don't have some standard that this movie needed to satisfy or anything like that.

    I agree w/ you, that the standard you're talking about would have required more ambition, risk, ingenuity, etc., which is not something that really fits with what this is, a sequel to a decades-long enormously popular series. These movies can't have the same paradigm-shifting impact of the original trilogy without being a drastic departure, which is not only too risky and strange a decision for a big studio to make with a big property, but also totally not necessary for Star Wars.

    They did play it safe, yeah, but not too safe! Not obnoxiously safe. They definitely took chances on plenty of big things, and it would be absurd to expect either slavish conformity to the OT or complete novelty.

    P.S., agreed also re: Harrison Ford. He was so much better here than in Indy 4, for example.

  40. #40
    Likes Kittens. Eats Fluffies
    Posts
    12,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconfish View Post
    Oh yeah, the problem with unmasked Adam Driver for me was all I could think was "Oh look it's Adam from Girls".
    Same here, kinda. Mostly, I just loved the vocal effect of the mask... That, combined w/ his mumbly line delivery, was like the best possible version of Bane from The Dark Knight Rises. The two effects just went together so well. I was so happy anytime he was onscreen for the first half of the movie.

    Hopefully in the next movie he's not unmasked the whole time!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •