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Thread: Rogue One

  1. #201

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    I was thinking about Tarkin CGI other day and now there's a good comparison online (well, before Disney pulls it.)



    If I had to play armchair CGI critic, one thing that I didn't like of the fake Tarkin was how it just felt "animated" when Cushing came across as very deliberate with his facial emotions in ANH. For me, the old Tarkin character was one that tended to be withheld in composure while portraying an outwardly perspective for the bigger things, choosing to act above the bickering and staff squabbles of the other officers and Vader. Thus, the brief changes of his face felt more significant.

    I think R1 should have worked better around the limitations of the CGI and made the Tarkin character more distant to the main villain (and by extension, the viewer). Having him operate at the same level as Krennic and one-on-one engagement in internal politics of the staff just brings attention to fact that CGI Tarkin ...just isn't a real person. I mean, besides the fact that Cushing wears his own face very well; he's like chiseled from it. Hard to fake that.
    Last edited by ECHOMAN; 03-27-2017 at 08:15 PM.
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  2. #202

    NIKVMVS-REX-TODOA

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    Rogue Non-nitpicking - A Nerd Story

  3. #203
    It's Stuart, Martha Stuart
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECHOMAN View Post

    If I had to play armchair CGI critic, one thing that I didn't like of the fake Tarkin was how it just felt "animated" when Cushing came across as very deliberate with his facial emotions in ANH. For me, the old Tarkin character was one that tended to be withheld in composure while portraying an outwardly perspective for the bigger things, choosing to act above the bickering and staff squabbles of the other officers and Vader. Thus, the brief changes of his face felt more significant.
    \
    Honestly, I think movie CG artists tend to be "lazy" compared to game CG artists. There are so many examples where they rely on the absurd rendering time budget they have, and fail to really hit details that game artists actually will. It's less of an issue now, but movies used to be really bad about using very detailed flat textures that didn't reflect light realistically. They still do in TV. In many ways real time rendering in a game has outshone aspects of TV and movie rendering because they put so much emphasis on doing everything they can with what they have.

    Animation seems to go the same way. They aren't putting enough emphasis into capturing small high frequency moments. Motion interpolation between keyframes is way too smooth. I understand that modeling the entire musculature of the face is going to be very hard, but I think they could do a better job if they took temporal detail more seriously.
    Last edited by Obi_Kwiet; 03-28-2017 at 03:49 PM.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obi_Kwiet View Post
    Honestly, I think movie CG artists tend to be "lazy" compared to game CG artists. There are so many example where they rely on the absurd rendering time budget they have, and fail to really hit details that game artists actually will. It's less of an issue now, but movies used to be really bad about using very detailed flat textures that didn't reflect light realistically. They still do in TV. In many ways real time rendering in a game has outshone aspects of TV and movie rendering because they put so much emphasis on doing everything they can with what they have.

    Animation seems to go the same way. They aren't putting enough emphasis into capturing small high frequency moments. Motion interpolation between keyframes is way too smooth. I understand that modeling the entire musculature of the face is going to be very hard, but I think they could do a better job if they took temporal detail more seriously.
    dude

  5. #205

    NIKVMVS-REX-TODOA

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    Rogue Dude - A Quote Story

  6. #206
    Zulenglashernbracker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obi_Kwiet View Post
    Animation seems to go the same way. They aren't putting enough emphasis into capturing small high frequency moments. Motion interpolation between keyframes is way too smooth. I understand that modeling the entire musculature of the face is going to be very hard, but I think they could do a better job if they took temporal detail more seriously.
    I didn't see Rogue One, so this is my first time seeing Tarkin. I agree with this entirely, and it really stood out to me.
    I had a blog. It sucked.

  7. #207
    Admiral of Awesome
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    The thing that stood out to me was how bad the subsurface scattering was.

  8. #208
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    I don't know what was wrong but it looked wrong. It looked CGI. It didn't look real. It detracted from the movie.

  9. #209

    "Has it won yet?"

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    The CGI Tarkin used an actor (Guy Henry) who was somewhat similar to Cushing's face as a "base model" of sorts. But, as it was for the Leia at the end, for some reason they decided to keep the base actor's facial proportions.

    Maybe it's for motion capture reasons that the general proportions must be kept otherwise the motion gets really off...? Because that made CGI Tarkin's head look narrower and longer right away, negating the CGI's advantage of crafting likeness like Cushing's head 1:1.
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  10. #210
    Admiral of Awesome
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECHOMAN View Post
    Maybe it's for motion capture reasons that the general proportions must be kept otherwise the motion gets really off...?
    If you want an example of what happens when you don't do this, look at Mass Effect Andromeda's female Ryder.

  11. #211

    "Has it won yet?"

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    oh man that's baaaaddddd. EA/Bioware/Whatever actually released this as a product?
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  12. #212
    Admiral of Awesome
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    EA's done worse.

  13. #213

    NIKVMVS-REX-TODOA

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    Rogue Animation Flaws - A This-Is-Why-All-My-Characters-Are-Helmeted Story

  14. #214
    You've seen these goofy Rogue One GIFs, right? Are you worried?
    And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.

  15. #215

    NIKVMVS-REX-TODOA

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    It's pronounced GIF. And I have not seen them, I'm avoiding Internet bull****.

  16. #216
    Well, you might want to look at a couple of these.

  17. #217

    NIKVMVS-REX-TODOA

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    Listen, you f***s***. Not everyone watches movies for CGI, movement, dialogue and camerawork.

    Some of us choose to engage with this medium on a higher plane.

  18. #218
    Yeah? What's that? >_>

  19. #219

    NIKVMVS-REX-TODOA

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    ...

    ... ... the warm embrace of a familiar brand.

    : <

    :' <

  20. #220
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    This thread sucks.

  21. #221
    if only it swallowed too
    eat right, exercise, die anyway

  22. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    This thread sucks.
    This thread fails to deliver.

  23. #223
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    You know it's the end of the line when two people with animated avatars and squabbling about some BS.

  24. #224
    post the jifs

  25. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    You know it's the end of the line when two people with animated avatars and squabbling about some BS.
    We earned those animated avatars.
    And the BS.

    And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.

  26. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    You know it's the end of the line when two people with animated avatars and squabbling about some BS.
    At least their posts are shorter and less humorless than when I do it.

    If you're going to talk non-sense it saves everybody's time if you make it obvious, plus I don't feel any guilt that I never read their posts.
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 03-30-2017 at 06:46 PM.

  27. #227

  28. #228

    "Has it won yet?"

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    After R1, I guess my JK: DF2 dream movie is dead, starring Anthony Hopkins as Jerec, Jason Statham (with a wig) as Kyle, Keira Knightley as Jan and Gary Busey as Boc.
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  29. #229

    NIKVMVS-REX-TODOA

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    You know, it just occurred to me that Rogue One is basically a D E U S E X: N I H I L U M, since both of them are prequels taking place almost right before the original story (and taking liberties with rewriting and readjusting existing lore) that in the end converge with the original story with varying degrees of success.

    That's all.

  30. #230
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    >

  31. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Obi_Kwiet View Post
    Honestly, I think movie CG artists tend to be "lazy" compared to game CG artists. There are so many examples where they rely on the absurd rendering time budget they have, and fail to really hit details that game artists actually will. It's less of an issue now, but movies used to be really bad about using very detailed flat textures that didn't reflect light realistically. They still do in TV. In many ways real time rendering in a game has outshone aspects of TV and movie rendering because they put so much emphasis on doing everything they can with what they have.
    I guess I missed this thread a year ago, but I just wanna say--game and VFX art looking sloppy is almost never the result of laziness and almost always the result of people working 16 hour days under unrealistic deadlines.

    Feature VFX production schedules in particular are ****ing insane.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn[numbarz] View Post
    I guess I missed this thread a year ago, but I just wanna say--game and VFX art looking sloppy is almost never the result of laziness and almost always the result of people working 16 hour days under unrealistic deadlines.

    Feature VFX production schedules in particular are ****ing insane.
    I mean, "lazy" in these contexts are always going to refer to decisions made at the top by producers. In this case, assuming that throwing a bunch of processors at a problem is a replacement for hiring enough artists have setting a reasonable schedule.

  33. #233
    Admiral of Awesome
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    All those games that copied and pasted Hable's tone mapper are pretty lazy too.

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    All those games that copied and pasted Hable's tone mapper are pretty lazy too.
    Color grading and tone mapping in games are hot garbage. It's beyond laziness. They have no idea what they are doing, and they have no taste so they can't even pick the least offensive results of their random flailing about.

  35. #235
    I find this discussion amusing considering the reason we're all here.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009

  36. #236
    From what I've read, LEC was pretty darn well staffed and funded in their heyday, as far as game studios go.

  37. #237
    I just rewatched Rogue One and it might be the best Star Wars movie since Empire.
    Last edited by Eversor; 08-23-2018 at 08:19 PM.

  38. #238
    I hated that movie because Jon`C ruined it for me by posting a rant that motivated me to play Dark Forces again before watching it, and then couldn't get it out of my head the whole time I watched it.

  39. #239
    Definitely a shining gem. Love how well it fits the title crawl from ANH.
    "I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16


  40. #240

    NIKVMVS-REX-TODOA

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    I was going to recreate Rogue One's "TODOA" scene as closely as possible (by FGR standards) in TODOA 3, but dropped it the moment I realized that despite 20 years of editing JK, I can't fix the weapon placement in hi-def Vader's hands.

    ... Unless someone is willing to make a hi-def Jar-Jar Binks JK player model for me.
    Last edited by Nikumubeki; 08-27-2018 at 11:31 PM.

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