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Thread: Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!

  1. #2561
    HP is definitely cancer. Also humans.
    sniff

  2. #2562
    Not sure if it's a pattern or coincidence, but this is the same woman who oversaw the implosion of Lucent (formerly Bell Labs). Two great centers of American innovation destroyed by the manegerial class?

  3. #2563
    Admiral of Awesome
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    Large corporations will always struggle to adapt to changing market conditions. Executives can't fix that, they can only make it worse (and they often do). The only universal truth revealed from stories like HP and Lucent is that corporations are supposed to die for the same reason people are.

  4. #2564
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    If AT&T had gotten their way (as they surely would today), nobody would own a cell phone, and Unix would just be this weird electronic switching thing that CS departments warn their graduates about. Like the telecom version of MUMPS.

  5. #2565
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    God ****ing damn it, if Google sold Piper it would drive Perforce out of business overnight, let alone open sourcing it, but here we all are, jerking off about Git because the worlds best dev tools company / ****tiest ad company is too lazy to hit a few buttons and I am really mad about it

  6. #2566
    Heh. A few months ago I had read about MUMPS on HN. At first it struck my curiosity as if it were some kind of hidden piece of treasure, an alternate approach to programming unhindered by dependence on the path of mainstream programming languages. Then... folks in the comments pointed out some of its horrors (like: only global vars, which, btw, must be within 6 chars and in ALL CAPS).

    As for people or corporations dying... well, I won't try to say anything too deep here, but one notion coming to mind is that people die for very different reasons.

    Like just recently, a video of Johnny Depp came out in which he suggested a really bad one (that is relevant to this thread).
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 06-23-2017 at 07:55 PM.

  7. #2567
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    God ****ing damn it, if Google sold Piper it would drive Perforce out of business overnight, let alone open sourcing it, but here we all are, jerking off about Git because the worlds best dev tools company / ****tiest ad company is too lazy to hit a few buttons and I am really mad about it
    Not sure about commercial offerings, but I've heard from several sources that Mercurial is basically a cleaner version of git, without all the obscure commands.

  8. #2568
    Then again, dying from a treatable illness just because the GOP wanted to save its billionaire Patreon subscribers a few bucks in taxes is also a really bad reason to die.

  9. #2569
    That would be a good ad campaign for the Dems, perhaps? A mock Patreon video from the GOP directed toward billionairs, charting all their progress in fulfilling their promises.

    "We convinced millions of people that they are better off dead from untreated diabetes, than surrendering their freedoms. We would love to make further progress on other fonts, but we can't make it possible without the generous support of our loyal subscribers. God bless."

  10. #2570
    Admiral of Awesome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    Not sure about commercial offerings, but I've heard from several sources that Mercurial is basically a cleaner version of git, without all the obscure commands.
    That's not the problem. I actually like the git workflow, and I even prefer the very unixy way commands are named and work (compared to hg which was designed to appease svn refugees). The problem is that git's internals are ****.

    Git's design is fundamentally incompatible with large scale development.

    Do you know what large businesses need? Atomic commits across many projects, fine-grained permissions, sparse x shallow clones, large binary file support, and file locking.

    Do you know what git fans' answer to this is? "Your organization is wrong". You don't need atomic commits across many projects, or shared code across projects, you need to silo engineers into internal vendors, bisect be damned. You don't need fine-grained permissions, you need fine-grained repositories. You don't need file locking, you need to man the **** up and draw your pictures in a text editor so you can resolve merge conflicts like a true member of the master race. And large binary files? Pfft, who would ever need to store binary files inside a source code repository? Like driver microcode, for example? Definitely not the dude who invented the ****ing flagship SCM that can't handle them, no sir!

    If you are a large company and you use git, you are basically a trendwhore moron, because it's easily the worst tool for the job. Even subversion is better. Even Mercurial, which is basically the same thing, is better for this - after Facebook spent years hacking on it, mind you, and they only chose hg for this because they thought Git was basically an unfixable disaster. Microsoft literally had to rewrite git as a filesystem driver in order to make it passable for the Windows team. And what a ****ing waste of time, too.

    I'm about ][ far away from writing my own SCM because Perforce is basically the software company equivalent of contracting pancreatic cancer, and yet it's still better for you than ****ing git.
    Last edited by Jon`C; 06-23-2017 at 11:33 PM.

  11. #2571
    Admiral of Awesome
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    tl;dr: Google didn't write their own SCM for kicks. Well... just for kicks. I'm sure kicks were had.

  12. #2572
    Watching a video on Google Piper right now, about 11 minutes in, the speaker describes a Google service called "citc" (clients in the cloud), which sounds pretty much like they implemented the functionality of Plan 9 into their build system, where all of the operations you would have had to do in git actually happen in locally mounted directories of distributed objects. Which makes a lot of sense, since I believe Git is basically using a data structure similar to an old Plan 9 hash-based versioned filesystem (Venti), and also that Google stole a bunch of Plan 9 people from AT&T almost two decades ago.

    So plan 9 isn't dead, you just have to work for the world's most evil ad company to use it.
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 06-24-2017 at 12:55 AM.

  13. #2573
    Funny thing is, when Linus Torvalds went to give a talk many years ago about his new program he called Git, he asked the Googlers in the audience what they were using (it was Perforce), and responded by telling them that he felt sooooo sorry for anybody that had to use Perforce.

  14. #2574

  15. #2575
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    Meanwhile while Reuters is running this article about Russia asking for the same source code access the US government gets, actual American cyber weapons have fallen into the hands of actual criminals who are using it to attack civilians and businesses.

  16. #2576
    ^^vv<><>BASTART
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    At what point do we draw the line between epic Russian cyber operations and their legitimate security concerns? Isn't it possible we're hyperventilating about Russia and just ignoring the larger concern that computer systems are poorly designed and vulnerable?
    Last edited by Reid; 06-24-2017 at 05:13 AM.

  17. #2577
    ^^vv<><>BASTART
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    This just in: a year after Snowden reveals the extent of NSA spying and backdoor capabilities, a world power goes to further lengths to make sure their software doesn't have backdoors. Clearly this is the work of a hostile actor trying to steal secrets to wage further cyberwar against the United States.

  18. #2578
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    At what point do we draw the line between epic Russian cyber operations and their legitimate security concerns? Isn't it possible we're hyperventilating about Russia and just ignoring the larger concern that computer systems are poorly designed and vulnerable?
    I don't think "we're" hyperventilating about Russia, as much as "we're" complaining about the spinelessness of certain corporations, which accepted unacceptable terms for doing business, instead of doing what they should've done: forgo access to a lucrative market in order to not compromise US security.

    Sure, Russia does have legitimate security concerns. But they're Russia's problem, not our problem. And, in fact, in some domains, Russian interests directly conflict with Americans security concerns, such that we're locked into a zero-sum game against them, such that to the extent that Russia is bolstered, the US is weakened. That's the "line": when Russian actions tip the scales in their favor against us, in this case, through the acquiescence of US corporations.

    The solution is that US companies don't do business with Russia when it means violating US security interests, and Russia builds its own software that meets its security needs.

  19. #2579
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    There's really no nuance or compromise to your views, is there?

  20. #2580
    I think I sound pretty reasonable.

    Come at me brah!

  21. #2581
    Admiral of Awesome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    I don't think "we're" hyperventilating about Russia, as much as "we're" complaining about the spinelessness of certain corporations, which accepted unacceptable terms for doing business, instead of doing what they should've done: forgo access to a lucrative market in order to not compromise US security.

    Sure, Russia does have legitimate security concerns. But they're Russia's problem, not our problem. And, in fact, in some domains, Russian interests directly conflict with Americans security concerns, such that we're locked into a zero-sum game against them, such that to the extent that Russia is bolstered, the US is weakened. That's the "line": when Russian actions tip the scales in their favor against us, in this case, through the acquiescence of US corporations.

    The solution is that US companies don't do business with Russia when it means violating US security interests, and Russia builds its own software that meets its security needs.
    This would be a totally reasonable perspective if we lived in an alternate universe where the US's national security problems were being caused by foreign antagonists and not the US itself and its allies.

  22. #2582
    Admiral of Awesome
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    god forbid companies allow enemies to pierce the veil of American national security by obscurity just so they can sell more product, sharing source code with powerful threats like Russia and the US federal government.

  23. #2583
    Admiral of Awesome
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    If I were Russia my main concern about the NSA backdooring my servers wouldn't be using those backdoors against me, it would be the NSA's repeatedly proven incompetence at keeping those backdoors secret.

  24. #2584
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    I really wish Clinton was not an incompetent politician. With the talk of Trump privatizing national parks and increasing prospecting on government lands..

  25. #2585
    It's Stuart, Martha Stuart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    With the talk of Trump privatizing national parks
    I think that would require the legislature, and I'm fairly sure that a good chunk GOP would really hate that.

  26. #2586
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    I really wish Clinton was not an incompetent politician. With the talk of Trump privatizing national parks and increasing prospecting on government lands..
    I wish Democrats had a real primary in 2016.

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