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Thread: Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!

  1. #6721
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikumubeki View Post
    By now, I think that the actual question w.r.t. Trump has come to this and only this: was the FGR of 2008 right all along?
    Wow I had no idea Jon was such an American patriot.

  2. #6722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikumubeki View Post
    By now, I think that the actual question w.r.t. Trump has come to this and only this: was the FGR of 2008 right all along?
    I don’t see how you could have possibly been right about making fun of someone’s culture because you dislike a government they have absolutely no control over.

  3. #6723

    NIKVMVS-REX-TODOA

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    Granted that during Bush's second term the shtick was on better grounds anyway (as Bush had actually won the popular vote that time). Mumble grumble four-year christmas xumblé.


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  4. #6724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikumubeki View Post
    Granted that during Bush's second term the shtick was on better grounds anyway (as Bush had actually won the popular vote that time). Mumble grumble four-year christmas xumblé.
    On an historically narrow margin, with no other conservative option given. The Republican primary was uncontested, and the states have erected numerous barriers against third party and independent candidates. (Some states don't recognize write-in candidates at all; some states restrict ballot access with fees and a complicated application and petitioning process; some states require your political party to be recognized by the state government, i.e. by the Republican and Democratic parties. The rules are different for each state.)

    Other so-called liberal democracies have similar problems. Like in the Westminster system, where instead of simply applying to be a presidential candidate in 50 states, you have to separately register and run candidates in hundreds of electoral districts in order to form government (650 in the UK, 338 in Canada). So, while it's not just a problem with the US, it doesn't change the fact that Americans can't just... like... vote for whoever they want, which meant in 2004 if you wanted a conservative president you had to hold your nose and vote George W. Bush.

  5. #6725
    ^^vv<><>BASTART
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    Why nobody likes MSNBC

  6. #6726

  7. #6727
    lmao

    Someone get that video to the top of Trump's twitter responses pronto so we can get this "world war 3 fought over penis size" thing underway.

  8. #6728
    Child's Play CharitySon of Krokodile XVI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    I don’t see how you could have possibly been right about making fun of someone’s culture because you dislike a government they have absolutely no control over.
    How come I never got a thread? WHERE'S MY THREAD JONNY
    Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.

  9. #6729
    So now Donald Trump is a self-declared "very stable genius".

    I'm worried.

  10. #6730
    I wouldn't. He's, like, really smart.

  11. #6731
    ^^vv<><>BASTART
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    Trump is a grade-A example of narcissistic personality disorder. It won't matter the category, he will always proclaim to be best at it and will think he's special.

    Just use him as a case study to learn what that sort of pathetic, pathological neediness looks like and keep that type of person at arms length.

    Oh god, life is so busy.

  12. #6732

  13. #6733
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    There are already examples of people citing racism and sexism at people who are bearish about an Oprah run. We live in the Twilight Zone, and on this episode we lose the political class and are instead socially coerced into voting for various blocs of billionaire groups to win favors, except we don't actually get anything in the end for it.

  14. #6734
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    I guess Trump thinks all of Africa is a ****hole. The guy really deserves an ass kicking.

  15. #6735
    Maybe we should send him back to Africa.

  16. #6736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    I guess Trump thinks all of Africa is a ****hole. The guy really deserves an ass kicking.
    First read Africa as America, and my reaction was basically "well obviously, but why specifically is Reid saying this?"

    And then I re-read it.

    And, well, obviously.

  17. #6737
    It's just Chicago that he likes to call a ****hole.

    Africa, Chicago, what's the difference? They are both plagued with uncivilized people, such as Barack Obama.

  18. #6738
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    "we need more coal jobs so you have something to aspire towards" and "you can't fairly compete against workers in other countries" aren't the compliments of someone who loves their country

  19. #6739
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    It's a little different to literally say that to reporters.

    Also, imagine being this unabashedly misogynist: https://np.reddit.com/r/****statists...y_via/ds898ic/

    I don't even know, there are some delusional people out there..

  20. #6740

    NIKVMVS-REX-TODOA

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    ... that URL starts with reddit.com, what did you expect


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  21. #6741
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    lol

  22. #6742
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    Having to live through a stupid-ass ballistic missile strike ****ing owned in real time. I loved wondering whether we were going to kill 20 million people and maybe trigger a massive barrage from China.
    If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.

  23. #6743
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...il-trump-power

    On 19 January 1934, the 354th day of Hitler’s reign, the Nazi regime closed the Kemna concentration camp, where anywhere from 2,500 to 5,000 political prisoners – most of them Communists, Socialists, and trade unionists – had been held and tortured (the press spoke obliquely of “enhanced interrogations”) for months. People could hear the prisoners’ screams from almost a half-mile away. The prisoners were moved to other concentration camps.

    On 9 January 2018, the 354th day of Trump’s reign, the president was anxiously monitoring news of a best-selling book – filled with leaks from his own top advisers, testifying to the addled state of his mind and rule – hoping against hope to stop any and all discussion of his fitness for office.

    Trump’s lawyers had already tried to force the book’s publisher and author to cease publication, issue a retraction, and apologize. Their reply? We “do not intend to cease publication, no such retraction will occur, and no apology is warranted”.
    heh. Does the Trump = Hitler argument look any different now? This guy thinks it's disconnected from reality, but there are plenty who disagree with him.

  24. #6744
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael MacFarlane View Post
    Having to live through a stupid-ass ballistic missile strike ****ing owned in real time. I loved wondering whether we were going to kill 20 million people and maybe trigger a massive barrage from China.
    I'm a little amazed by how underwhelming the media response has been to this. People went back to complaining about Trump's "****hole countries" remark and arguing that he's unfit for office pretty quickly. They completely overlooked what should have been a sobering wakeup call. It goes to show that a lot of the discussion around Trump has developed a momentum of its own, that has more to do with peddling outrage for the sake of being outraged, rather than taking seriously the reasons why Trump's unfitness for office is actually dangerous. Perhaps nobody cared about this false alarm because it was difficult to blame Trump for it, except incidentally.

  25. #6745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...il-trump-power



    heh. Does the Trump = Hitler argument look any different now? This guy thinks it's disconnected from reality, but there are plenty who disagree with him.
    The "Trump = Hitler" argument was never about what Trump is capable of achieving as president of the US, it's about whether Trump personally idolizes Adolf Hitler and wishes to emulate him. 357 days into his reign, for example, he all-but-explicitly said that America should prefer aryan immigrants over other races. Do you think Trump looks less like a Hitler fan today than he did a year ago?

  26. #6746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    I'm a little amazed by how underwhelming the media response has been to this. People went back to complaining about Trump's "****hole countries" remark and arguing that he's unfit for office pretty quickly. They completely overlooked what should have been a sobering wakeup call. It goes to show that a lot of the discussion around Trump has developed a momentum of its own, that has more to do with peddling outrage for the sake of being outraged, rather than taking seriously the reasons why Trump's unfitness for office is actually dangerous. Perhaps nobody cared about this false alarm because it was difficult to blame Trump for it, except incidentally.
    A sobering wakeup call of what? That Raytheon needs a better user interface designer? Can you be more specific about your objection, please?

  27. #6747
    I'm sure he merely admires Norway for its cradle-to-grave socialist policies.

  28. #6748
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    A sobering wakeup call of what? That Raytheon needs a better user interface designer? Can you be more specific about your objection, please?
    A sobering wakeup call that the consequences of a war with North Korea -- that we all too often talk about in the abstract, in hypothetical, rather than as something that could really happen, whose consequences would be real -- would be felt palpably by Americans (never mind too by Japanese and Koreans).
    Last edited by Eversor; 01-15-2018 at 06:08 AM.

  29. #6749
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    The "Trump = Hitler" argument was never about what Trump is capable of achieving as president of the US,
    Except

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    he all-but-explicitly said that America should prefer aryan immigrants over other races
    So... it's not about pursuing white nationalist policy agenda, except, apparently, on the key policy issue (immigration) that most made him sound like a white nationalist in the 2016 campaign, and that's among the issues that white nationalist care about above all else. Huh! Can't help but think you're trying to have it both ways here.

    Sure, the argument that it doesn't matter that Trump has an authoritarian impulse because his incompetence prevents him from becoming a genuine authoritarian and implementing his ideas has been a widespread. But ambitions vs. capability is only axis of the "Trump = Hitler" debate. There are other ways that people on this thread -- including you -- have compared Trump to Hitler. And leaving aside that you have made the "he's only a Hitler fan" qualification before, you're not the only person here who's regularly compared Trump to Hitler.
    Last edited by Eversor; 01-15-2018 at 05:27 AM.

  30. #6750
    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    I'm sure he merely admires Norway for its cradle-to-grave socialist policies.
    Or for its prosperity relative to Haiti, which is a quantifiable fact.

  31. #6751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    A sobering wakeup call that the consequences of a war with North Korea -- that we all too often talk about in the abstract, in hypothetical, rather than as something that could really happen, whose consequences would be real -- would be felt palpably by Americans (never mind too by Japanese and Koreans).
    That explains why the media didn’t talk about it much, then, since whatever’s good for the media is by necessity bad for someone else. Imagine how many 24 hour news cycles they could fill if a major US city got nuked!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    Except

    So... it's not about pursuing white nationalist policy agenda, except, apparently, on the key policy issue (immigration) that most made him sound like a white nationalist in the 2016 campaign, and that's among the issues that white nationalist care about above all else. Huh! Can't help but think you're trying to have it both ways here.
    Strawman. I never said he didn’t pursue a fascist agenda, only that his impact is limited:

    Sure, the argument that it doesn't matter that Trump has an authoritarian impulse because his incompetence prevents him from becoming a genuine authoritarian and implementing his ideas has been a widespread.
    That and, you know, his power is checked. Among other things, the US has a functioning independent judiciary which has, for example, blocked on constitutional grounds Trump’s “white nationalist key policy agenda” of banning Muslims from the country.

    Meanwhile, Hitler had unlimited emergency powers within his first year as chancellor.

    If someone burned down the US capitol and Congress gave Trump broad emergency powers, and he didn’t abuse them, maybe you’d have a point. But they didn’t, and he didn’t, and you don’t.

    But ambitions vs. capability is only axis of the "Trump = Hitler" debate. There are other ways that people on this thread -- including you -- have compared Trump to Hitler. And leaving aside that you have made the "he's only a Hitler fan" qualification before, you're not the only person here who's regularly compared Trump to Hitler.
    Thats nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    Or for its prosperity relative to Haiti, which is a quantifiable fact.
    I’m sure there are lots of things that correlate with whiteness.

  32. #6752
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    That explains why the media didn’t talk about it much, then, since whatever’s good for the media is by necessity bad for someone else. Imagine how many 24 hour news cycles they could fill if a major US city got nuked!
    Strawman. Has nothing to do with what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    Strawman. I never said he didn’t pursue a fascist agenda, only that his impact is limited:
    Strawman. I didn't say you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    That and, you know, his power is checked. Among other things, the US has a functioning independent judiciary which has, for example, blocked on constitutional grounds Trump’s “white nationalist key policy agenda” of banning Muslims from the country.
    Duh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    Meanwhile, Hitler had unlimited emergency powers within his first year as chancellor.
    Yep. I've already made the distinction between Hitler having emergency powers that suspended the Weimar constitution and Trump having nothing analogous. On this thread. Twice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    Thats nice.
    Thanks.

  33. #6753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    Strawman. Has nothing to do with what I said.
    Yes, it does.

    "I'm a little amazed by how underwhelming the media response has been to this."
    "A sobering wakeup call that the consequences of a war with North Korea -- that we all too often talk about in the abstract, in hypothetical, rather than as something that could really happen, whose consequences would be real -- would be felt palpably by Americans (never mind too by Japanese and Koreans)."

    To which I responded:

    "That explains why the media didn’t talk about it much, then, since whatever’s good for the media is by necessity bad for someone else. Imagine how many 24 hour news cycles they could fill if a major US city got nuked!"

    Which is on-topic, isn't misrepresenting anything you said, and isn't even attempting to refute anything you said.

    Strawman. I didn't say you did.
    There's no other reasonable interpretation. In response to:

    "The "Trump = Hitler" argument was never about what Trump is capable of achieving as president of the US, it's about whether Trump personally idolizes Adolf Hitler and wishes to emulate him. 357 days into his reign, for example, he all-but-explicitly said that America should prefer aryan immigrants over other races. Do you think Trump looks less like a Hitler fan today than he did a year ago?"

    You wrote:

    "So... [comparisons between Trump and Hitler are] not about [him] pursuing white nationalist policy agenda, except, apparently, on the key policy issue (immigration) that most made him sound like a white nationalist in the 2016 campaign, and that's among the issues that white nationalist care about above all else. Huh! Can't help but think you're trying to have it both ways here."

    There are two ways to understand this post. You're either suggesting that the people making this comparison don't care about Trump's fascist interests other than immigration, or you're suggesting that we believe he doesn't have any. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed the latter, but either way it's a strawman.

    Duh.
    Yep. I've already made the distinction between Hitler having emergency powers that suspended the Weimar constitution and Trump having nothing analogous. On this thread. Twice.
    ...and yet you consistently fail to understand that there's a difference between what a person wants to do, and what they're capable of doing. There are thousands of Americans who personally identify with Adolf Hitler, and almost none of them are capable of enacting his policies. That inability doesn't exempt them from unfavorable comparisons, and it shouldn't exempt Trump either.

  34. #6754
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    Yes, it does.

    "I'm a little amazed by how underwhelming the media response has been to this."
    "A sobering wakeup call that the consequences of a war with North Korea -- that we all too often talk about in the abstract, in hypothetical, rather than as something that could really happen, whose consequences would be real -- would be felt palpably by Americans (never mind too by Japanese and Koreans)."

    To which I responded:

    "That explains why the media didn’t talk about it much, then, since whatever’s good for the media is by necessity bad for someone else. Imagine how many 24 hour news cycles they could fill if a major US city got nuked!"

    Which is on-topic, isn't misrepresenting anything you said, and isn't even attempting to refute anything you said.



    There's no other reasonable interpretation. In response to:

    "The "Trump = Hitler" argument was never about what Trump is capable of achieving as president of the US, it's about whether Trump personally idolizes Adolf Hitler and wishes to emulate him. 357 days into his reign, for example, he all-but-explicitly said that America should prefer aryan immigrants over other races. Do you think Trump looks less like a Hitler fan today than he did a year ago?"

    You wrote:

    "So... [comparisons between Trump and Hitler are] not about [him] pursuing white nationalist policy agenda, except, apparently, on the key policy issue (immigration) that most made him sound like a white nationalist in the 2016 campaign, and that's among the issues that white nationalist care about above all else. Huh! Can't help but think you're trying to have it both ways here."

    There are two ways to understand this post. You're either suggesting that the people making this comparison don't care about Trump's fascist interests other than immigration, or you're suggesting that we believe he doesn't have any. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed the latter, but either way it's a strawman.





    ...and yet you consistently fail to understand that there's a difference between what a person wants to do, and what they're capable of doing. There are thousands of Americans who personally identify with Adolf Hitler, and almost none of them are capable of enacting his policies. That inability doesn't exempt them from unfavorable comparisons, and it shouldn't exempt Trump either.
    I'm not going another discussion with you where I explain to you what I wrote. It always ends the same way: with you pretending that you didn't make a mistake that you clearly made. Sorry.

  35. #6755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    I'm not going another discussion with you where I explain to you what I wrote. It always ends the same way: with you pretending that you didn't make a mistake that you clearly made. Sorry.
    Well, at least you didn't accuse me of antisemitism this time.

  36. #6756
    Child's Play CharitySon of Krokodile XVI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    I'm not going another discussion with you where I explain to you what I wrote. It always ends the same way: with you pretending that you didn't make a mistake that you clearly made. Sorry.
    I was casually glancing over this discussion, noticed an argument and decided to go back and try to figure out if one of you was more right in his posts than the other.

    I don't know how you can say that you didn't create a strawman when it's right there very plainly to be seen.

    Jon wrote: "[The comparison] was never about what Trump is capable of achieving as president of the US"

    What does that mean to you? To me, in this context, it means very clearly that the comparison to Hitler is not about whether Trump, as president of the US, may be able to enact policies inspired by Hitler's ideology.

    You responded with "So... it's not about pursuing white nationalist policy agenda"

    What does that mean to you? To me, in this context, it very clearly means that the comparison is not about whether Trump may strive to enact policies inspired by Hitler's ideology.

    Because "being able to" is different from "striving to", just as "achieving" is different from "pursuing", this is where you created the strawman which you could then easily point to as flawed. If you honestly don't see having resorted to this strawman fallacy that you very plainly did, you're providing an "alternative fact" and to deny it is plain absurd when the words are right there.

  37. #6757

    NIKVMVS-REX-TODOA

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    Similarly, Kroko may be able to voiceact for Deus Ex: Nihilum, but he's not striving for it.

    HA!

    ZINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN*flangereffect*NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNG


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  38. #6758

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