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Thread: Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!

  1. #14041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookie06 View Post
    What does Trump have to do with conservatives?
    The overwhelming majority of self-identified American conservatives like him, agree with him, and voted for him. If you donít consider yourself one of them then maybe you arenít as conservative as you think you are.

  2. #14042
    Citation please.
    "I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16


  3. #14043

  4. #14044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookie06 View Post
    Conservatives don't believe in punishing people with government. That's a leftist ideal.
    epic troll dude

    what's your real take?

  5. #14045
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    epic troll dude

    what's your real take?
    Well, you see this this exact thing with tax policy.
    "I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16


  6. #14046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    epic troll dude

    what's your real take?
    Honestly, most of the reason Wookie06 is fun to **** around with is because heís clearly a socially moderate classical liberal, but the Fox bubble has tricked him into thinking that heís a part of the Republican consensus. Itís going to be a sad day for both of us when he figures that out.

    I mean, for you and me. Heíll be sad too, but **** Ďim.

    Heís gonna write this off as a troll so Iím not worried about giving away the game by posting this, either. If nothing else it will make it last even longer.
    Last edited by Jon`C; 04-14-2019 at 06:08 PM.

  7. #14047
    I think you're confusing semantics with ideology. I refuse to adopt your definitions of political terminology. I am a conservative but you don't use that word in the same way as American conservatives. To add to the confusion, I bet most Americans don't really understand any of these terms. Regardless, just because I take issue with your caricatures I really don't see why you keep lumping me in with Fox or Republicans. Yes, I am a registered Republican but I rarely have anything defensive to argue on their parts anymore and I only occasionally catch a clip online from Fox News if it appears to be from a topic that interests me.

    If anything, I've already figured it out years ago. I don't even know why you pretend to not notice that I'm clearly not the same Republican I was ten years ago. And, yes, I can clearly be classified as a socially moderate classical liberal but running around calling myself that makes about as much sense as calling myself gay every time I'm happy.
    "I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16


  8. #14048
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    lol look at this lieberal

  9. #14049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookie06 View Post
    I think you're confusing semantics with ideology. I refuse to adopt your definitions of political terminology. I am a conservative but you don't use that word in the same way as American conservatives. To add to the confusion, I bet most Americans don't really understand any of these terms. Regardless, just because I take issue with your caricatures I really don't see why you keep lumping me in with Fox or Republicans. Yes, I am a registered Republican but I rarely have anything defensive to argue on their parts anymore and I only occasionally catch a clip online from Fox News if it appears to be from a topic that interests me.

    If anything, I've already figured it out years ago. I don't even know why you pretend to not notice that I'm clearly not the same Republican I was ten years ago. And, yes, I can clearly be classified as a socially moderate classical liberal but running around calling myself that makes about as much sense as calling myself gay every time I'm happy.
    It's hard to know what you believe because you never seem to stick to anything, often say you were just trolling, etc.

    At a certain point nobody's going to believe your front that you do have a consistent belief system when you never ever express it. Can't keep crying wolf.

  10. #14050
    Crying wolf? Not sticking to anything? I don't have any idea what you're talking about. I am guilty of not following through on posts or discussions but I'm far from a prolific poster at this point.
    "I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16


  11. #14051
    I mean, because I didn't buy into the Russia-Trump conspiracy theories, that doesn't mean I have to be a Trump supporter. And being anti-Trump doesn't mean I have to support democrats. And agreeing with Trump when he's doing the right thing doesn't make me pro-Trump all the time. I don't buy into national politics like I used to. I've said before, it's going to take an Article V convention of the states for me to get interested again. Until then or something else radical we're all just chasing our tails.
    "I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16


  12. #14052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookie06 View Post
    Registered Republican
    Votes straight ticket Republican
    Can't defend anything they say
    Disagree with 90% of other Republicans about Trump
    Ideologically opposed to their policies
    I am clearly a liberal
    Their policies specifically hurt me, my family, and my state
    Hates being lumped in with other Republicans
    Thinks the above makes him better
    🤪

  13. #14053
    *Registered Republican
    What would you suggest is my alternative?

    *Votes straight ticket Republican
    Pretty much but I didn't vote for Trump and I tend to vote for nonestablishment candidates.

    *Can't defend anything they say
    I guess that depends on what they said.

    *Disagree with 90% of other Republicans about Trump
    I haven't spoken to that many Republicans.

    *Ideologically opposed to their policies
    Depends although if the policy doesn't include some form of regressive change then there's a good chance I oppose it. I like to categorize myself as a regressive conservative.

    *I am clearly a liberal
    Certainly not in the modern usage of the word.

    *Their policies specifically hurt me, my family, and my state
    I guess you could say that as Republicans have pretty much morphed into Democrat-lite (while democrats have morphed into bat-**** crazy).

    *Hates being lumped in with other Republicans
    Sometimes but not nearly as bad as being lumped in with the opposition party.

    *Thinks the above makes him better
    Makes me better than who I was before.
    "I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16


  14. #14054
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookie06 View Post
    *Registered Republican
    What would you suggest is my alternative?
    Well you definitely can't register as or vote for a third party. That would be throwing your vote away. Or you'd be voting for a spoiler. You might as well stay home if you're gonna vote for a third party.

  15. #14055
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    I don't believe in miracles or soothsaying, but I have occasional dreams of the Notre Dame in Paris being destroyed and so today is ****ing unreal for me.

  16. #14056
    Thought he was onto something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    I don't believe in miracles or soothsaying, but I have occasional dreams of the Notre Dame in Paris being destroyed and so today is ****ing unreal for me.
    My dreams of inferno and chaos are always way more low-brow.
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    enshu

  17. #14057
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenshu View Post
    My dreams of inferno and chaos are always way more low-brow.
    A bag of Doritos Blaze chips goes crazy.

  18. #14058
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    Apparently the 737 MAX 8 sensors would not warn if they reported differing data unless you paid Boeing a bunch for a software license??!?

    What the actual ****? Not like a piece of safety hardware, but literally just a software option.

    Whoever okay'd that decision at Boeing is okay'd for the guillotine.

  19. #14059
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenshu View Post
    My dreams of inferno and chaos are always way more low-brow.
    I have no idea why it's the Notre Dame in particular. Or why I sometimes have any kind of apocalyptic dream at all..

  20. #14060
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    Apparently the 737 MAX 8 sensors would not warn if they reported differing data unless you paid Boeing a bunch for a software license??!?

    What the actual ****? Not like a piece of safety hardware, but literally just a software option.

    Whoever okay'd that decision at Boeing is okay'd for the guillotine.
    https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comm...twice/ekylldd/

    And here's a nice comment on the hellscape that is Boeing. Seriously the more I learn about this ****show the more I want to only fly on an Airbus.

  21. #14061
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    I have no idea why it's the Notre Dame in particular. Or why I sometimes have any kind of apocalyptic dream at all..
    My recurring apocalyptic dream is an asteroid crashes into the moon and then the moon crashes into earth. The thing thatís terrifying about it is that the dream always has such rich detail.

  22. #14062
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    My recurring apocalyptic dream is an asteroid crashes into the moon and then the moon crashes into earth. The thing thatís terrifying about it is that the dream always has such rich detail.
    The largest known asteroid in the solar system is Ceres. In order to deorbit the moon, it would need to crash into the moon at 7000 m/s which is... uh, not very fast.

    To be honest, I started this with an assumption that this would be reassuring

  23. #14063
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    My recurring apocalyptic dream is an asteroid crashes into the moon and then the moon crashes into earth. The thing that’s terrifying about it is that the dream always has such rich detail.
    Nope. Hope I don't have that dream. Nope.

  24. #14064
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    I would stand under it as it descended toward the earth, shaking my first at the sky and Wookiee gargling. A final testament to the accomplishments of our civilization.

  25. #14065
    I think it's inspired by 9/11, actually. It always interrupts something totally mundane that's happening, which is very 9/11-y (or very nuclear holocaust-y).

    And I really can't express how vivid and colorful and detailed the explosion is. The best word for it is awesome. Beautiful and terrifying at the same time. Vaguely religious.

  26. #14066
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    yeah, I feel the same way about the ones where Iíve forgotten to go to class all semester

  27. #14067
    ahaha so I'm not the only one who has those. Probably until the day I die

    Edit: you know, a little googling shows this is actually quite a prevalent dream. In fact my sister told me she has them too.
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 04-16-2019 at 01:13 AM.

  28. #14068
    https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-new...ral-politician

    Fascinating article here about Andrew Yang. I think it does a good job at describing the worldview that's behind his policy proposals and his aesthetic. No surprise: it's rooted in Silicon Valley, and so it possesses many of the same shortcomings of the Silicon Valley Weltanschauung (#pretentiouspatrol). Yet at the same time, the author isn't only pessimistic about Yang. Here are some highlights. The conclusion:

    Deciding what is optimal is the language and logic of Silicon Valley and it proceeds from the premise that the optimizer already knows the desired outcome in any given situation—if they didn’t, what would they be optimizing for? One of Yang’s ideas is for a “Digital Social Credit,” a name that invites comparison to the Chinese government’s social credit system. The idea is spelled out in detail on Yang’s website: “In order to spur development, the government should issue a new currency – the Digital Social Credit – which can be converted into dollars and used to reward people and organizations who drive significant social value. This new currency would allow people to measure the amount of good that they have done through various programs and actions.”

    In the event of any disagreement over how to measure units of good, or how to track the rewards for designated drivers of significant social value who take part in sanction programs and actions, we can count on there being algorithms to sort out such matters. And if some troublesome person should question how we determine a definition of good that’s suitable for all Americans, or who controls the algorithms that make such decisions, Yang’s bet, and he won’t be that last to make it, is that promise of a thousand bucks a month, a truce in the culture wars, and a brake applied to the dizzying pace of change, will convince most people that they’d rather not push too hard looking for answers.
    And when it comes to Yang on the culture wars, Siegel says one of the promises of Yang's campaign is to finally put them to rest. Consider, for example, his policies on universities:

    Implicit in his campaign is the possibility of escaping from one of the drearier and more interminable aspects of modern American life: the endless culture war. Take his approach to universities. There are two ways of framing the problem with American higher education. Conservatives see academic inquiry under attack from ideologically driven administrations, activist professors, and fragile, censorious students. Progressives, meanwhile, criticize universities as profit-maximizing institutions that leave students burdened with crushing debt, while affirming the academy’s role in spreading progressive social values. The terms of the debate have been locked for decades. But Yang cleverly organizes an end run around the whole moldy problem. He suggests “a gradual phase-in of a desired ratio of administrators to students of 1 to 30 as a condition of public funding as opposed to the current 1 to 21. The ratio was 1 to 50 in the 1970s – if we can get back to that level then college will be much cheaper.” In other words, rather than dealing at all with the motives, whether ideological or profit-driven, or attempting to push for a final status victory for either side in the campus culture wars, Yang goes around the problem to get out of it. Force schools to take money away from non-essential administrative cadres that justify their existence by enforcing political edicts, and give it back to students. At the same time, “stipulate that any university that receives public funding cannot increase its costs by more than the rate of annual median wage growth the year before.” Who knows if this will work, but can anyone bear another decade of rehashing the same tedious arguments that have been on a loop since the 60s?
    Last edited by Eversor; 04-16-2019 at 02:39 PM.

  29. #14069
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    Re: social credit. Kanban for civic engagement? I think paying people an extra thousand a month for tying up loose ends is wonderful, because that kind of thing is individually annoying to us but impossible for a bureaucracy to deal with. I don't know how the administration would work, verifying that people were actually doing the work, if or how expenses should be reimbursed. It's a good idea though.

    Re: force schools to take money away from non-essential administrative cadres ... and give it back to students: "I don't understand how market economies work"

  30. #14070
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    Unless supply is constrained by factor prices (and I think it's obvious PSE isn't), markets set prices by demands' willingness to pay and ability to pay. In other words, the value of education to the student and the amount of tuition they can afford. You cannot reduce prices via making organizations more efficient and hoping they pass the value on to their customers. This is some Republican-tier trickle down bull****. If you want to use market mechanisms, your choices are exactly to either reduce willingness to pay (make PSE less valuable, which means deeply regulating labor markets) or reduce ability to pay (e.g. mandate large down payments on student loans, which will make university unaffordable for poor people).

    Or just... like... maybe don't try to fix this problem with ****in market mechanisms you don't understand? You can directly regulate by imposing a tuition price ceiling. This will force universities to cut administration down until they're profitable per student, which will actually accomplish both goals (unlike the original proposal, which won't accomplish either). Or you can make PSE "free" via a federal government monopsony, which will negotiate with universities on behalf of all American students (at least regulatory capture). Or you can do the obviously correct and morally just thing, and nationalize all PSEs.

  31. #14071
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    We have a flat tire. How do we fix it??

    Andrew Yang: The issue is that the current pressure in the tire is 1 atm. When the tire was not flat, the pressure was 2 atm. I propose we adjust the pressure until it it 1.5 atm.

    What he says is the epitome of citing useless figures without understanding root causes. In any case, before the corporatization of universities, they were run mostly by professors and largely democratically. In fact, that's how they're still run. Our department is pretty much self-sufficient without any help from above. We make the exams, we give them, we assign grades, we deal with students. All the university does is a bit of clerical work, and they have some people making fat paychecks.

    You could easily cut costs by trimming the fat and letting departments run themselves for the most part. That's already how things are pretty much done, little reorganization would be needed.

  32. #14072
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    If you want to know the root cause of university financial shenanigans, it's the US government making student loans guaranteed and nondischargable. Has that situation changed? No? Okay.

    Can we fire all of the secretaries anyway?

  33. #14073
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    No money down, no payments until you graduate, no risk to either the lender or the government. Oh, tuition went up, you say? How bizarre. It's almost like having people willing and able to pay infinity dollars for something makes its price go to infinity.

  34. #14074
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    (For bonus points: what's the ability to pay and willingness to pay of an S&P 500 health insurance company that has a direct tap on 50 million incomes and a contractual obligation to spend it? Hmmmmmmm.)

  35. #14075
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    What he says is the epitome of citing useless figures without understanding root causes.
    Is it really? I'm not so sure I agree, in general at least. I admire him for having such an empirical approach to policy. Bracketing whether the data he has is right and whether he arrives as sound conclusions, when it comes to how he reasons about policy, it appears that he defines what the problems are by abstracting (or inferring) them from data, and then he devises solutions as responses to those problems.

    It seems preferable to what many other Democrats are doing, which is devising policy ideas based on ideological commitments, and then using data to develop ex post facto rationalizations the policies.

  36. #14076
    I should add, though, that if by "what he says" you mean specifically about education in the passage I cited above, I may have misunderstood you. If instead you meant his approach to policy in general, then what I wrote above still stands.

  37. #14077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    Is it really? I'm not so sure I agree, in general at least. I admire him for having such an empirical approach to policy. Bracketing whether the data he has is right and whether he arrives as sound conclusions, when it comes to how he reasons about policy, it appears that he defines what the problems are by abstracting (or inferring) them from data, and then he devises solutions as responses to those problems.

    It seems preferable to what many other Democrats are doing, which is devising policy ideas based on ideological commitments, and then using data to develop ex post facto rationalizations the policies.
    Optimizing arbitrary metrics is an ideological commitment just as much as governing from emotional pleas is.

  38. #14078
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    We have a flat tire. How do we fix it??

    Andrew Yang: The issue is that the current pressure in the tire is 1 atm. When the tire was not flat, the pressure was 2 atm. I propose we adjust the pressure until it it 1.5 atm.

    What he says is the epitome of citing useless figures without understanding root causes. In any case, before the corporatization of universities, they were run mostly by professors and largely democratically. In fact, that's how they're still run. Our department is pretty much self-sufficient without any help from above. We make the exams, we give them, we assign grades, we deal with students. All the university does is a bit of clerical work, and they have some people making fat paychecks.

    You could easily cut costs by trimming the fat and letting departments run themselves for the most part. That's already how things are pretty much done, little reorganization would be needed.
    You know, I came in reiding this expecting to disagree with what I'd imagined to be some reiductionism, but really you hit some kind of nail on the head here about what I'd call 'slick solutions' that cover up less sexy problems that will never get addressed because they are neither sexy to talk about nor are they things certain groups want to hear.

    In this light, I think what we need in our politicians is a firebrand populist who "gets it", not some slick salesperson from the business world with a fancy new idea. Because inevitably that idea will become the basis for some circle jerk that just covers up the real problems (kinda like how a lot of fast-growing businesses are probably just novel tricks that find ways to impose externalities in unforeseen ways).

  39. #14079
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    The great thing about metrics based management (whether youíre talking about business administration or government policy) is all the money youíll make in your new consulting firm to help people optimizing metrics without solving the root cause

  40. #14080
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    Optimizing arbitrary metrics is an ideological commitment just as much as governing from emotional pleas is.
    Heís making a priori assumptions, no doubt, but Iím hesitant to say that thatís enough to make his worldview ideological. (But I also wouldnít rule out the possibility.)

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