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Thread: Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    The true crime is that people are politically informed by watching television.
    The irony of this, though, is that Fox News is deliberately designed to "inform" people using sound bites, repetition, misinformation and what amounts to basically indoctrination. Same with basically all top-down structured right-wing media, e.g. Rush Limbaugh's radio show. The track record of honest right-wing reporting isn't there. In fact, a found people who watch Fox are less informed than people who don't consume any news media at all.

  2. #202
    He's a reality TV star playing the president. It makes sense that to figure out what's happening in real life, in order to intuit the president's own intuitive grasp of reality, you too will have to tune in to the corporate media. In the end, everybody wins, since when this truth becomes widely accepted, ratings will be through the roof, heavily stimulating the economy.

  3. #203
    So now he's expected to sign executive orders restricting immigrants and refugees from entering the country.

    Besides the human tragedy, what bothers me a lot is the logic of some of my European acquaintances, who, when in private, will stare me straight in the face and argue that nothing Trump can do with the USDA or EPA matters in the end, so long as we somehow find a way to stop the barbarian hoards of non-whites form entering the country.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    Sure, which is why I alluded to the days of the Old Republic, before the dark times. Before the empire.

    Nevertheless, I'm not sure I would call FDR a leftist in the strongest sense of the word, but I am beginning to question that conclusion now that I think of it a bit more.

    All this Nazi stuff (and now my lack of command of US history) kind of makes me just want to go to the history books to take my mind off this stuff. I was recently recommended the book "Wild Swans: Three Daughters of China" as another example of a (mostly) factual account of a family that experienced the oppression of the Cultural Revolution first hand.
    The New Deal was a pretty big program, and did alot of good things. We're not usually taught in American schools that a bunch of it strengthened labor unions and limited the powers of manufacturers over workers, instead we're taught about the conservation corps. In fact the labor history of America is undertaught, probably don't want to give your average American ideas about how to politically modify their environment.

  5. #205
    I suppose I never thought of the New Deal as some paragon of far left-wing agenda, simply because it is so familiar. But I suppose it must have been hell to get through. I know FDR threatened to pack the courts to accomplish it, and that there was plenty of strife between unions and corporations, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    I would watch a video of that miserable son of a ***** Ted Cruz getting punched in the face. He also reminds me of Alex from A Clockwork Orange.


    Attachment 27298Attachment 27297
    The main difference being, despite being a total *******, one of them is sympathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    So now he's expected to sign executive orders restricting immigrants and refugees from entering the country.

    Besides the human tragedy, what bothers me a lot is the logic of some of my European acquaintances, who, when in private, will stare me straight in the face and argue that nothing Trump can do with the USDA or EPA matters in the end, so long as we somehow find a way to stop the barbarian hoards of non-whites form entering the country.
    Fascism takes economic, cultural and political antagonisms and redirects them against a "foreign" enemy. That's precisely what Trump has done.

  7. #207
    I've said that being "anti-" something isn't such an accomplishment in life.

    The philosopher René Girard thought that language emerged in humans when people needed a way to describe the "other", and that feelings of good and bad are fundamentally part of the positive vs. negative connotation in language. Identifying outsiders of the tribe with accessible language was essential, and once identified, they could be the scapegoat for whatever negative forces were facing the tribe at the time. The secondary utility of this dynamic is to unite the tribe together in a common effort for their collective good, externalizing the costs of this heuristic onto the scapegoat.

    It makes a lot of sense that we've gone back to this tribal dynamic, since the prevalent medium of internet communication (text) has restricted our use of language in ways unfit for an advanced civilization (face-to-face communication is mostly gone, leaving out channels of empathy; anonymity is rampant, so almost everybody who doesn't virtue signal for your side is a potential other), as well as giving disproportionate voices to angry people, who get to use the medium to channel their feelings of inadequacy onto the scapegoat (René Girard had a concept of "mimetic desire"--where we see something external which we would like to mimic, and therefore need to compete to attain it, usually with disastrous consequences).

    The funny thing is, Peter Thiel was supposed to be close friends with René Girard, but seems to have totally missed the connection with fascism when he aligned himself with Trump. From what I've gathered, the two things he's learned over the years are that competition (he advocates looking for a niche that will give you a monopoly when starting a company) and democracy are for losers.
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 01-24-2017 at 09:27 PM.

  8. #208
    Oh, great. It looks like he's planning to start building that wall tomorrow. This could be very bad down the road, if the wall (which AFAIK already exists) becomes a target of destruction or protest for anti-fascist radicals, or even political pressure on a far left wing president to eliminate the wall altogether.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    The funny thing is, Peter Thiel was supposed to be close friends with René Girard, but seems to have totally missed the connection with fascism when he aligned himself with Trump.
    Thiel is a California secessionist, and a contrarian (troll) accelerationist. That's why he backed Trump.

  10. #210
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    Why does a secessionist have a strong opinion about making the most divisive and dangerously unstable candidate the US president? Well, funny you should ask,...

  11. #211
    Make Kalifornia Über Alles again.

  12. #212
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    The *******-in-chief is threatening to bring troops into Chicago.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    The *******-in-chief is threatening to bring troops into Chicago.
    The general idea is not bad, and is one the mayor is receptive to. Unless we are talking about the national guard matching around the streets.

  14. #214
    When you're in uniform you tend to match no matter where you are.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    Allen and VandeHei also reported that Trump doesn’t read books and avoids reports and briefings that he considers too lengthy. That doesn’t mean that Trump is hip to advancing technologies, however — he doesn’t use computers and rarely uses his phone for anything but calls. Even his infamous tweets are often dictated and then submitted by others.
    ? :)

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    The general idea is not bad, and is one the mayor is receptive to. Unless we are talking about the national guard matching around the streets.
    What version of troops is more acceptable than the national guard? The national guard should (should, but it's just the federal army basically) be the only acceptable form of troops. And they're not going to show up in like, plain clothes.
    sniff

  17. #217
    Is anyone actually reading the Executive Orders? I finally broke down after hearing some fake news about an executive order that dismantles Obamacare. There's only two of them and the one about Obamacare specifically states every provision of the order is to be carried out in compliance with the law. We all know repeal is the goal, the order even states that, but there's no need to lie about what the order is or does.

  18. #218
    Who's lied? What have they lied about?

  19. #219

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    Who's lied? What have they lied about?
    ^ this

    I've only ever seen people talk about the economic burden but, and always in compliance with the law.

    But I get my fake news from NYT mostly, so....

  21. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Spook View Post
    What version of troops is more acceptable than the national guard? The national guard should (should, but it's just the federal army basically) be the only acceptable form of troops. And they're not going to show up in like, plain clothes.
    I agree with all that. I just don't think sending troops in to parade the streets would be anything more than showmanship.

    But nevermind--I only heard it from Reid that there would be troops in the first place. Trump originally said 'feds', which I interpret as the FBI and other law enforcement--just what the mayor deemed as acceptable.

  22. #222
    Oh I see.
    sniff

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    I just don't think sending troops in to parade the streets would be anything more than showmanship.
    Regardless of intent, I don't think we should forget the lesson of Kent State, & the possibility of things getting out of hand.
    ? :)

  24. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    Who's lied? What have they lied about?
    Basically anyone that's saying he's gutting Obama's signature healthcare law with an executive order.

  25. #225
    I haven't heard/read anyone from a mainstream news source who's made the claim that that's what the executive order did.

  26. #226
    lol.

    Trump tweeted right after Faux News did a piece on the violence in Chicago, and used the exact same statistics in his tweet that were used on the show.

    They're discussing his constant reactions to the media on CNN right now.

  27. #227
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    I stopped watching the news. And listening to the news. And reading the news online. All the "news" sources these days are just regurgitating "tweets" and "analyzing" them. They don't do journalism anymore, they're just out to make a quick buck on advertising impressions. I'm done.

  28. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    I haven't heard/read anyone from a mainstream news source who's made the claim that that's what the executive order did.
    Where I'm seeing/hearing it are social media shared news headlines and brief radio news break segments. Undoubtedly some are click-bait and/or trying to make Trump out to be doing such great things. Personally, I like his executive order on the Affordable Care Act but it doesn't do anything to get rid of it.

  29. #229
    Oh, and I'm not saying it should.

  30. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Wookie06 View Post
    social media shared news headlines
    There's your problem.

    Too many people these days, one could even say a few generations, rely entirely on social media for "news".

    You shouldn't get your news from facebook. If only for the fact that it's an echo chamber. You'll only get news from sources that you like, or about subjects that you like. It's not a place where you can get interesting opposing views to form your own opinion.

  31. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by ORJ_JoS View Post
    There's your problem.

    Too many people these days, one could even say a few generations, rely entirely on social media for "news".

    You shouldn't get your news from facebook. If only for the fact that it's an echo chamber. You'll only get news from sources that you like, or about subjects that you like. It's not a place where you can get interesting opposing views to form your own opinion.
    It's not a problem for me. I do get some news from Facebook but that's because I follow legitimate news sources on Facebook. The problem lies with people sharing misleading stories and people believing them and continuing to share them, which of course is what led to the Fake News moniker that has backfired on the mainstream news media. Today, however, it was a local (or national) news report on a news radio station that got me going on the topic.
    "I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16


  32. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I stopped watching the news. And listening to the news. And reading the news online. All the "news" sources these days are just regurgitating "tweets" and "analyzing" them. They don't do journalism anymore, they're just out to make a quick buck on advertising impressions. I'm done.
    Well, the problem is also that you've got a president who more or less refuses to address the actual media and would rather tweet everything he has to say.

    Which, by the way, is a really popular strategy among populists these days. In The Netherlands, our local fascist cumbubble called Wilders has been doing the same thing for years. He refuses to address the press whatsoever, and if the press can't do its work, that is a major problem in a parliamentary democracy.

    1. Tell people the media can't be trusted.
    2. Tell people the justice system can't be trusted.
    3. Tell people the electoral system can't be trusted..
    4.???
    5. Profit!

    Wilders, Erdogan, Trump. It's not difficult to see the similarities.
    Last edited by ORJ_JoS; 01-25-2017 at 04:39 PM.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by ORJ_JoS View Post
    You shouldn't get your news from use facebook. If only for the fact that it's a n echo chamber toxic waste dump.
    .

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by ORJ_JoS View Post
    Well, the problem is also that you've got a president who more or less refuses to address the actual media and would rather tweet everything he has to say.

    Which, by the way, is a really popular strategy among populists these days. In The Netherlands, our local fascist cumbubble called Wilders has been doing the same thing for years. He refuses to address the press whatsoever, and if the press can't do its work, that is a major problem in a parliamentary democracy.

    1. Tell people the media can't be trusted.
    2. Tell people the justice system can't be trusted.
    3. Tell people the electoral system can't be trusted..
    4.???
    5. Profit!
    yup. When your polices can't withstand debate, the only way forward is to shut down the debate.

  35. #235
    @Jon`C: agreed on both points.

  36. #236
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    If corporate media is responsible for anything, it's this. Dealing with both sides of every issue as though they have equal merit. Evolution vs creationism? Anthropogenic global warming? Abortion? They frame these issues like the sloppy, stupid side is equally valid, when they aren't. This, more than anything else, is what's made people proud to be stupid. And suddenly everybody is always right all of the time. Nobody's opinions have to be challenged anymore, and nobody's feelings need to get hurt. And it doesn't really matter that you've voted for an aliterate sociopath, because no matter what he does, he's always gonna be right!

    "All news is fake news."
    Last edited by Jon`C; 01-25-2017 at 04:47 PM.

  37. #237
    That's beneath you.
    "I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16


  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookie06 View Post
    That's beneath you.
    Hey, I didn't say which side is the sloppy, stupid side, did I? But apparently I didn't need to.

  39. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    If corporate media is responsible for anything, it's this. Dealing with both sides of every issue as though they have equal merit. Evolution vs creationism? Anthropogenic global warming? Abortion? They frame these issues like the sloppy, stupid side is equally valid, when they aren't. This, more than anything else, is what's made people proud to be stupid. And suddenly everybody is always right all of the time. Nobody's opinions have to be challenged anymore, and nobody's feelings need to get hurt. And it doesn't really matter that you've voted for an aliterate sociopath, because no matter what he does, he's always gonna be right!

    "All news is fake news."
    Fake news is at least not a new thing. Does anyone remember when Hearst manufactured an entire war through news? All news has always been fake news. And we had a chance to open that up and have primary source reporting change things. But we went so hard on that that everyone is a primary source for their own little world. Which is not fake news, it's the balkanization of the collective unconscious. Except more jungian archetypes to manifest through social media because of this. Also Plato thinks any sort of facscimilie is fake news. We have always been at war with fake news. An alliterative sociopath seems fun though.
    sniff

  40. #240
    All news has always been fake news.
    Let's not get carried away. Earlier I asked Wookie if he saw a difference between Breitbart, Huffpo, and the Daily Caller, compared to WSJ and NPR. Please don't tell me you also see no difference.

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