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Thread: The Last Jedi

  1. #1
    Child's Play CharitySon of Krokodile XVI
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    The Last Jedi

    Tradition dictates that we need a thread for the latest Star Wars movie. I'm going to see it in a couple of hours so I'll get back to you. I've actually made sure that I know nothing about it beyond the one official trailer I've seen. Yesterday was the premiere for this movie and I went the day without any internet (excepting the PlayStation Network) to ensure I've not encountered any spoilers or even any opinions on it at all. Massassi and a couple of other sites are also as far as I've gone on the internet today before seeing it. This is pretty ridiculous, right? I just wanted to see how this would affect my thoughts on the movie as I watch it.

    Anyway, let's do that thing where we post our thoughts on the latest Star Wars.
    Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.

  2. #2
    Well it looks like I won't be going to any internet sites for the rest of this week.

  3. #3
    Admiral of Awesome
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    I might watch it on bluray.

  4. #4
    My Post-TODOA/DXN Unprogress Disease definitely reached its peak this year and my interest in watching/reading/verbing things that remind me of "you know, due to not having a million dollars, you can never ever make your "original" project" (so, more or less everything) has reached zero. I'll probably read the synopsis on TVTropes and get the Bluray when it comes out.

    (Here's my promise for next year: I'll actually seriously try to whine far more less about this stuff from Jan 1st onwards)

    (Not to mention that due to being on my longest vacation since 2013, I don't even really want to go outside aside from grocery shopping)

  5. #5
    Child's Play CharitySon of Krokodile XVI
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    I give you no spoilers, just my opinion.

    So the movie sucked in my opinion. I'm kind of shocked by how bad I thought it was. I enjoyed Episode VII and Rogue One, and now I just feel like sitting Episode IX out. And the next spin-off because I don't want any Star Wars right now. I never get mad over a movie, but what an utter disappointment this was.

  6. #6
    Admiral of Awesome
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    But itís 94% fresh on RT! That means itís a good movie! Nothing weird going on with RT lately!

  7. #7

    "Has it won yet?"

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    Two and a half hours, goddamn.

    Judging from the trailers, there looks like 5 different plots going on.
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  8. #8
    Child's Play CharitySon of Krokodile XVI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon`C View Post
    But itís 94% fresh on RT! That means itís a good movie! Nothing weird going on with RT lately!
    I don't know, a lot of people seem to really like this movie. It puzzles me but see it whenever you can be bothered and decide who's right.

  9. #9
    Admiral of Awesome
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    Lots of people liked TFA, and it was highly reviewed, but I hated it. In my experience Star Wars fans and the media are generally willing to praise any mediocre dreck published under the label, no matter how awkward and badly written it is.

  10. #10
    Child's Play CharitySon of Krokodile XVI
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    I liked TFA because the new main actors were charismatic, the original cast members were fun to see reprise those roles and Kylo Ren wasn't a two-dimensional villain. To me two of these things were intact in this outing (the novelty of seeing the original crew back had worn off, although Hamill as Luke Skywalker was one of the better things in this one), but what was around that was not the by-the-numbers fan pleaser of TFA but something much worse.

    I wonder how I'd have felt about TFA if I hadn't gone in knowing people had liked it. Or how I'd feel about TLJ if I had gone in this one knowing that. I will readily admit that other people's opinions affect me. Actually I'm skeptical of people saying other people's opinions don't affect them at all. I hear that quite a bit but it's psychologically impossible whether people want to admit it to themselves or not. I guess the extent varies, though.

  11. #11
    Admiral of Awesome
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    I hated TFA because it was badly written. It seems like they started with a list of scenes they wanted to put in the movie, rather than ever coming up with a story they wanted to tell. That by itself wouldnít have been as much of a problem, had they bothered to explain anything.

  12. #12
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    I still haven't seen TFA, but I've seen Rogue One twice.

    Rogue One was really boring a second time.

  13. #13
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    Also ironically I had TFA spoilered, but I don't remember the spoilers.

  14. #14

    "Has it won yet?"

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    Tired of The Mouse now. Once The Mouse teams up with ISPs after NN dies today, the internet is going to have a steady pace to becoming hot garbage.

    I guess for the sake of Massassi's future, we should be positive for The Mouse. I can't wait to discuss Disney's movies on Facebook and other social media sites!
    SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
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  15. #15
    Hey, at least we might be getting the 20th Century Fox logo back on the Star Wars movies.
    Sorry for the lousy German

  16. #16
    ALL GLORY TO THE CONTEST WINNER

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    Just saw it, I think I liked it less than I want to admit to myself.

  17. #17
    Didn't read thread for fear of spoilers, but gonna be heading out to watch it in a couple hours.
    I can't wait for the day schools get the money they need, and the military has to hold bake sales to afford bombs.

  18. #18
    Saw it. It was ok. There were some pretty off the wall things they did, but eh.

    Quote Originally Posted by ECHOMAN View Post
    Judging from the trailers, there looks like 5 different plots going on.
    That's pretty much what they did. I think they were going for the non-linear story, like what they did in ESB and ROTJ, but it felt like it was all over the place. There were several points in the movie that I felt like it was about to end, but then it kept going.
    I can't wait for the day schools get the money they need, and the military has to hold bake sales to afford bombs.

  19. #19
    It's Stuart, Martha Stuart
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    It had flaws, but overall it was a pretty good example of a modern film. For some reason it seems like a lot of people are finding it difficult to follow the plot in the sequels, because I see a LOT of complaints stemming from people missing details that were pretty clearly explained at one point or another. I don't think the humor will stand up particularly well.

    Modern films tend to have extremely beautiful cinematography, and the new Star Wars films are some of the best examples out there. However, I get the feeling that their isn't nearly as much opportunity for creators to express their own personal style as well. They way everything is done is reduced to too much of a science, and movies tend to have an ephemeral "sameness" to them.

    I think Disney is producing some decent movies, but they aren't nearly as good at world building as Lucas was. Lucas definitely has some major faults as a film maker, but he does have talent for make you care about the world in which his stories take place. That talents can't really be replaced by a committee, even if it's a very expensive, highly funded committee. From a cynical business standpoint, I think the lack of good world building is going to hurt the brand's secondary profit potential in the long term.

    Like anything else you see these days, the movie has some very good points and is worth seeing if you can overlook some of the issues.
    Last edited by Obi_Kwiet; 12-15-2017 at 05:33 PM.

  20. #20
    I would have to agree. I think a thing that worked against it is that they tried to tell a lot of story in such a short span, even for a 2.5 hour runtime. Had they more runtime, or *shiver* split it up, they could have really fleshed it out.
    I can't wait for the day schools get the money they need, and the military has to hold bake sales to afford bombs.

  21. #21
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
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    Throughout the movie I was conflicted about whether I was enjoying myself or not. It's like it was going in such a different direction with everything than what I had expected, and I was struggling to keep up with it instead of nervously speculating about what might happen next. Could be a product of being extremely hyped for the movie, and having an unabashed love for the characters (Yes, even Rey, Finn, and Poe).

    On the drive home, the thing that bothered me was how Luke's showdown with Kylo Ren went. I thought it sucked that he wasn't even really there. I got to thinking about it later on, though, and thinking about why he did what he did. He had to fake it. The entire resistance is waiting for him to show up, and he's no longer the person they're waiting for. In his absence, he'd grown into a legend of mythical proportions, and the best way he could really help was to be that legend, and that's exactly what he did. The Luke that shows up isn't the frightened, paranoid old man, but the swaggering badass that we all thought he was going to be. Because that's the kind of story that spreads like wildfire, and makes people think they really can stand up to tyranny.

    The movie does a lot of cool things with the idea of power, too. There's the overarching theme of the new trilogy, which seems to be founded in the idea that you should beware defeating the bad guys, because the guys who replace them might be worse. Thinking you're indestructible is the best way to let yourself be destroyed, which is a lesson that the Jedi, the Empire, and Snoke learned the hard way. Also, maybe don't stand there and call your apprentice a failure and expect them to arbitrarily remain loyal. Vader had to remain loyal to Palpatine because Palpatine could effortlessly kill him at any time. Snoke doesn't have that over Ren, and he probably should have considered it a bit more, but again, the whole power thing. If you don't have your head up your own ass, maybe you actually see the threat.

    The problem with power is that it creates calm in the holder of said power. You say that because you are this person or have this talent, you can do this thing, but it's not like that. There's always some other crap in your way. It doesn't matter how big of a ship you have, or how many guards you have, or if you've got a great big gun and lots of walkers. Something is going to end up standing in your way, and it's something you haven't accounted for yet.

    In this instance, it's a powerful man who literally is indestructible, and you've got another powerful man who is suddenly completely off-task. The difference is that one of them has true power in wisdom, knowing that the trick works better than the real thing, even if it exhausts him to the point of death. A lot of people have said that they wish Luke really had been there, and he really had been able to deflect all of the blasts from the walkers, and I think that while that would have been cool and all, it would ultimately subvert everything that the movie is all about. He just isn't that person anymore, and the only way for him to sell the legend is to fake it.

    The issue is that power is a lie. Luke is powerful, Snoke is powerful, Rey is powerful, Ren is powerful, etc... Snoke's power doesn't get him anywhere except being in two pieces on the floor. Luke's power led him to exile and a scorching case of PTSD. Ren's power leads to him continuously losing focus to pursue personal vendettas to his own detriment. Rey is different, though. She doesn't even want the power. She never asked for it, and she doesn't know why it has to be her. For a while after Luke said farewell, I kept feeling like there was going to be another battle somehow between Rey and Ren, but then I realized there doesn't need to be. She's not going to seek him out, because she's got better things to worry about. She's there to help however she can, which is to actually help other people survive, not try to kill someone.

    There's a hell of a lot going on in this movie, and I know I went slightly stream of consciousness here, but I'm still processing it.
    >>untie shoes

  22. #22
    Doesn't care what his title is
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    I'm still undecided about the movie. There were a lot of things I liked, and one major thing I did not. I don't want to spoil it for anybody, but the movie will leave you with a case of blue balls. It wasn't necessarily bad, but it's not what anybody expected. I did enjoy the fact that this one actually had somewhat of an intelligent plot. It wasn't particularly juvenile like Star Wars movies usually are.

    Edit: I see Bill is unconcerned about spoilers. I agree with his estimation of Luke Skywalker's role in the movie. The audience wanted to see him come do something awesome, but instead he ends up as a scared old man dying alone. There was no great Force battle like we were all expecting. There was no big reveal about Rey's heritage or Snokes rise to power. I think I would have to see it again, now that I don't have any expectations. I suspect I will like it more.

    I also like the theme of how anybody can be a hero. Just because you're a Skywalker doesn't mean you're a real hero. An orphan can be a hero. A faceless Stormtrooper can be a hero. And an unknown maintenance engineer can be a hero. A slave boy with a broom can be a hero.
    Last edited by Steven; 12-16-2017 at 01:03 AM.

  23. #23
    I felt like the points made about Luke's arc, him not being a super hero and more legend was on point, but even that decent set of plot points can't save this film from being a mess....

    Did anyone else think Leia's original role was split into two? A woman in a dress is an admiral and sacrifices herself?

    Just to many faults to list. I can't believe this film was made. It felt like the constant, "were one step from annihilation" trope was so overplayed that the film lost ALL gravity a half hour in. I just didn't care because nothing was at stake.

    I really wanted to like this film. I walked out of TFA with a smile and happy that it at least felt like Star Wars. This film felt like some kind of crappy over-hyped TV show where you can leave 50 loose ends and there is no climax.

    Ugh.

  24. #24
    Snake in the Brass
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    I really enjoyed the movie, every bit until the ending. I now just feel depressed about Luke and how that is it for him. I knew the whole time that there was no way it was really him in the final battle. I was actually thinking he was tricking the First Order into concentrating firepower into one spot to create some kind of geological disruption on the planet and have the ground fall out underneath the walkers or make some huge explosion that cut them off from the Resistance, allowing them to escape.

    But nope. It was just a trick to buy time that exhausted him to the point of death. They give us 4 seconds with no dialogue of Luke in TFA. I enjoyed him in this movie, but now we wont see his like again.

    Honestly I'm just hoping for a Star Wars movie to come out that gives me something as major as the "I am your father" reveal moment. That moment was spoiled for me as a child before I had fully formed memories. In my mind I've always known that Vader is Luke's father... never got the "OMFG" moment out of that that so many did. I would really just like that to happen. I really think that THAT is the reason so many people rate ESB as the best one out of all of them. It is just so hard to re-create without it just seeming like a parody or straight rip off. "OMG they are RELATED???" That actually makes me glad for what they did with Snoke and Rey's backgrounds. All the internet theories. Even my wife is like "she is totally a Palpatine." No... we don't need Star Wars to turn into "Once Upon a Time".
    "Guns don't kill people, I kill people."

  25. #25
    I thought it was trash. Worse than the prequels. Disney now creates Master Jedi's where they learn the force immediately, and lifting heavy rocks. R2D2 waking up at the end of TFA has no meaning now, because Luke is all angry mad man, "Why are you here?!".

    JJ dawg has his work cutout for him to clean this up.

  26. #26
    (Still) On 13 week vacation
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    I really feel like the primary criticism that I've seen vocalized about the film is that it isn't everyone's fan fiction, and it doesn't care if it makes you feel good about yourself.
    >>untie shoes

  27. #27
    ^^vv<><>BASTART
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    Yeah dude the real problem is the snowflakes.

  28. #28
    Child's Play CharitySon of Krokodile XVI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antony View Post
    I really feel like the primary criticism that I've seen vocalized about the film is that it isn't everyone's fan fiction, and it doesn't care if it makes you feel good about yourself.
    I thought this was a really bad movie, but I don't identify with those reasons.

  29. #29
    Doesn't care what his title is
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    Quote Originally Posted by PedHead View Post
    Disney now creates Master Jedi's where they learn the force immediately, and lifting heavy rocks. R2D2 waking up at the end of TFA has no meaning now, because Luke is all angry mad man, "Why are you here?!".

    JJ dawg has his work cutout for him to clean this up.
    I mostly agree with this portion of your assessment. Makes Kyle Katarns training seem intensive.

    The movie basically ignored all of the things that were built up in Ep VII. Rey's parentage, Luke's badass return, Smoke's power and story, etc. were glossed right over. Ep VIII was a decent movie as part of the overall saga, but it didn't fit with what the previous film established.

    I don't think it ruins the movie, but I'm disappointed with what they did with Luke Skywalker. No one wanted to see that. I understand the theme of legends and myths vs. reality, but it still kind of hurt.

  30. #30

    "Has it won yet?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven View Post
    I mostly agree with this portion of your assessment. Makes Kyle Katarns training seem intensive.

    The movie basically ignored all of the things that were built up in Ep VII. Rey's parentage, Luke's badass return, Smoke's power and story, etc. were glossed right over. Ep VIII was a decent movie as part of the overall saga, but it didn't fit with what the previous film established.
    I saw it today. I left afterwards feeling like the movie was a mess, and, like you said, it didn't explore things that were set-up in TFA. It came across like episodes for a series condensed into one movie with characters and plots coming in and out. I'm not sure how much Rian Johnson's input was on the script, but it was jarring in terms of continuation. Thoughts off-hand(SPOILERS):

    -What was the point of Luke setting up the map hunt in TFA if he just wanted to be left alone on an island to die? In the end of TFA, I interpreted it as a way for Luke to "reach out" when the time was right, but then Last Jedi threw that out. So what was the point of even having the map? Why.

    -I thought the projection of power of Snoke in the TFA was interesting, having a literal huge presence to command the First Order without giving away too much. I liked here that he was more manipulative than the empire-building Palpatine ... but then the character just dies. So what was his plan, just power? He went out too soon as a Palpatine-lite without the mystery or larger-than-life persona in TFA. I saw hints of the power-projection angle that could have worked out: Snoke could have been seizing a vacuum left by the late Emperor and projecting outwards, and the First Order machine needed a figurehead of some sort to operate (i.e. General Hux looked like he need a Supreme Leader or anyone strong enough to keeping going forward).

    -The whole Kylo Ren's struggle to mimic or surpass Vader in TFA just gets dropped. I thought his own helmet was important to Kylo's character since he uses to cover his unsure/unstable nature. But it just took Snoke to make a comment that it looks ridiculous and it gets ditched like that? And what happened to the Knights of Ren, a different perspective of the same story...?

    -I thought the whole subplot of the casino/code-cracker trip was a waste. It reminded of the 50's diner scene in the Attack of the Clones and seemed out-of-place while fumbling some ideas of war-profiteering (did a different director direct that?). In TFA, Finn had a purpose but I felt that in the Last Jedi tried to just give something for him to do after he just wakes up. But why didn't that purple-hair Rebel woman just tell Poe what the plan was? I mean, that's what they end up doing anyway and it worked more or less. If anything, Finn's actions with Rose made the situation worse, no? Did I miss something?

    -In the end, my suspension of belief allowed me believe that Luke was really there. Sure whatever, he can make contact. But what was the point of projecting himself if he ultimately still dies? If the Rebellion needed that "spark," wouldn't that nullify that since he wasn't really there to be the martyr? It's a messy resolve to the whole being a legend theme that haunted Luke. This focus on the Resistance in this movie, including the drawn-out ship chase scenes and sacrifices, felt undermined by Rogue One that came out a year before but... I don't know if that's a fair point.
    Last edited by ECHOMAN; 12-16-2017 at 11:29 PM.
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  31. #31

    "Has it won yet?"

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    Also, from what Luke said in the end, I guess he will be there standing and watching every time Kylo takes a deuce or rubs one. Truly the greatest revenge.
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  32. #32
    I thought it was really good. New characters were all great, and Rey's arc in this one was pretty powerful.

    I think it suffers from some of the problems of TFA--jokes that feel a little too Marvelly, and a universe that feels terribly small (the whole republic + fleet was destroyed in the last movie, and now the resistance is down to, what, a dozen people?). But it's hitting its marks emotionally, and the story was more coherent than TFA, I thought.

    Hux is rapidly becoming one of my favorite Star Wars characters of all time

  33. #33
    ..would like a shrubbery.
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    I liked the movie overall but there were some bits which were awful



    Rose. Worst star wars character ever. Jar Jar was annoying but at least he wasn't as one dimensional and pointless. Terrible writing, awful casting and the character was completely unnecessary to the plot. If you have room for another main character give us Lando back please.

    The whole casino scene. It existed entirely as something for rose to do and felt completely out of place in star wars. People complain about whitewashing in films but it works the other way around too, every character in those scenes was white. Tuxedos really? Ugh. The whole segment could have been cut from the movie and replaced with a line about a small weakness in the shield, and the movie would have been better for it.

    Again we hear random imperials and others say "the millennium falcon" as if everyone in the universe knows the ship.

    Snoke dying would be OK if they'd answered the questions they set up in the last movie. It makes sense that kylo is conflicted and they set that up well.

    Other than that, I quite liked the rest. I liked the way they took Luke as a fallen hero whose best days were behind him. It evolved the character more than just bringing him back to continue where he left off in rotj.

  34. #34
    Child's Play CharitySon of Krokodile XVI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ni View Post
    Rose. Worst star wars character ever. Jar Jar was annoying but at least he wasn't as one dimensional and pointless. Terrible writing, awful casting and the character was completely unnecessary to the plot. If you have room for another main character give us Lando back please.
    I don't need Lando back but besides that, completely agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ni View Post
    People complain about whitewashing in films but it works the other way around too, every character in those scenes was white.
    I agree on the casino sequence being unnecessary, but this sentence confuses me. Isn't every character being white in fact whitewashing? How is every character being white "the other way around"?
    Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Krokodile View Post
    I agree on the casino sequence being unnecessary, but this sentence confuses me. Isn't every character being white in fact whitewashing? How is every character being white "the other way around"?
    I think Ni is disgruntled by the implications of making all the rich bad guys white, although they actually weren't all white and also RotJ did pretty much the same thing.

  36. #36
    ^^vv<><>BASTART
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    I much prefer when all the enemies are black Jews mindcontrolling white women.

  37. #37
    Child's Play CharitySon of Krokodile XVI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn[numbarz] View Post
    I think Ni is disgruntled by the implications of making all the rich bad guys white, although they actually weren't all white and also RotJ did pretty much the same thing.
    Oh right. Thanks.
    Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.

  38. #38
    I liked it a lot. I trust Rian Johnson and I liked a lot of the risks he took. I liked that questions were left unanswered. I like that Snoke is a mystery.

    porgs 4 life
    [01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.

  39. #39
    THEY DIDN'T DO WHAT I WANTED THEM TO DO WHAT TRASH WHY CAN'T LUKE AND REY JUST HAVE BABIES GOD?!
    TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE

  40. #40

    "Has it won yet?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn[numbarz] View Post

    Hux is rapidly becoming one of my favorite Star Wars characters of all time
    I enjoyed every moment of Hux. I wish it was no Rose, more Hux.

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