Umm... wtf?

I thought all the skywalkers were dead... I guess maybe that's the "rise" part.

Not impressed, really. Flips aren't cool anymore. Lando is p. cool tho. And the emperor at end? Yawn.

I laughed at all the prequel memes in the youtube comments a couple hours ago, NGL

Ahh, just posted about this in the movie thread. Yeah, this looks bad from so many perspectives.



Yeah. Green screen wire flips are seriously super early 2000's. The Matrix kicked it off, then you had films like Kill Bill and the prequels which all made gratuitous use of it.

It just looks ****ing dated now. Everyone knows how it's done, and I can't see them without also seeing the air-conditioned green screen studio they filmed it all in. There is no veneer of plausibility to any of it, it just makes me wince.

The Emperor reeks of desperation. They realize that Kylo is a character a huge amount of people actually found compelling, but set him up to be a villain in TLJ.. so where do you go? I guess you need a new villain to displace Kylo, who is 100% not dying now because fans.

The title is easily explained.

Rise of Skywalker => end of saga loops back to beginning, making it Infinite. Just like David Bowman turns into a space fetus at the end of 2001.

Just not feeling it.

Also why are we back in a desert again. And why is Rey an aerobatics master now.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only person on this website who still likes Star Wars

Probably

I'm a grumpy old man who can't enjoy anything anymore

Further explanation for the title of this film:



Shimi is Rey

Edit: 4chan.org/tv confirms!

stop lookin at 4chan so much

I would have rather seen a jedi grab the tie fighter in midair and hurl it into a mountain

I want to see some goku vs vegeta kind of stuff

I didn't find it there, I just made sure my own independent conclusion was shared by the greatest minds of the day. I actually got there through a google search but the thread is active as of a few hours ago.

I like good Star Wars.

The funny thing about my little Rey theory is that it only involves the $$$-bookends around that good part (the OT), meaning you can chop them off and forget about it if you dislike both 4chan and crappy movies.

So like...ESB?

Hey, it's right in the middle, so as you go in either direction...

Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back are the only masterpiece Star Wars films.

Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, and I guess Rogue One are the only watchable Star Wars films. Maybe Solo in parts.

Everything else is pretty bad.

I can agree with that, although I rate RotJ far, far higher than Rogue One, probably because it carries over all the good parts of the first two OT movies for the most part (with a heaping serving of Ewok cheese and other filler that I can overlook).

After TFA and TLJ (both which gave me little more than a headache and confusion, with their non-existent or contrived, happenstance and tedium driven action-based 'plots'), I don't think I'll bother to see Solo or even TRoShimi.

I thought Rogue One was pretty unwatchable, personally.

And like...I do have my old guy purist gripes with the new movies as much as anybody, but...we spent an awful lot of time on this site talking about/making & playing mods about the prequel movies, and those were terrible. The new stuff is certainly flawed but I really think the userbase has changed a lot more than the films have.

Those mods weren't terrible as part of a cynical and calculated decision to maximize the $$$, though. In fact for all their faults, they're more like indie art than schlock IMO.

wait, forgot about TODOA



(OK, I'll admit that Rogue One has its merits, seen in the right light )

The mods were largely uncritically embracing the prequel movies (which were also cynical and calculated to maximize the $$$) though, is my point. They represented an enthusiasm for (bad) Star Wars that isn't here now.

Ah, that's fair. I remember a whole slew of double-bladed light saber mods, and all other manner of Duel of the Fates -ish fan mods / levels. I guess back then we were all just a bit more optimistic about the franchise?

TPM seemed like a better movie before the subsequent prequels came out. (I think it also feels much more like a Star Wars movie than the other prequels.)

I think so, and I think it was very much tied to age. I was 10 when The Phantom Menace came out. I thought podracing and AATs and battle droids were ****ing awesome. I didn't realize it was bad and I was supposed to hate it until internet forums told me so later. Revenge of the Sith is my least favorite of the prequel movies, and I don't know if that's because it's dour and visually ugly (which is what I've always told myself) or because I was starting to age out of that stuff.

You were mentioning the messy plotting of the new movies (and I agree, it is), but a lot of that could be said for the OT--the insane post-Hoth timeline of ESB, the absolutely bat**** opening of RotJ, probably more. We just don't care because we had a great time.

I think a lot of the critiques being levied at these new movies ("how did Rey learn to do a flip," "how did they get to that planet so fast,") whatever, aren't the reasons people didn't like the movies. People watched a Star War and didn't feel the way they did when they were watching Star Wars as a kid and are searching for reasons why.

One could also argue we tolerated the prequels because we knew the story was going to eventually go somewhere we knew and love. The sequels on the other hand don't have a clear objective on where they are going to go. We knew Anakin was somehow going to turn into a badass, and there was some draw to that. I cant say I care what happens to anyone in the continuing story anymore since they weren't planned and therefore lack any foreshadowing, or other forms of audience investment.

Yeah, this is something I'm torn about. Most people agree that it's the worst movie of the entire series. And yet if you imagine a universe where eps. 2 & 3 were never made, I think it stands by itself fairly well. For some reason it feels like a different universe, and in its own way, has a certain aesthetic depth to its plot & setting that I can't quite describe, and perhaps could have evolved into something quite different than the more action-driven Clones & Revenge. That said... it was still pretty bad in too many ways.

I just don't see this--since when do we only care abt stories if we know the ending already? And Anakin sucked from day one and was everyone's least favorite part of the prequels, Jar Jar notwithstanding. People loved the spaceship explosions and the laser swords. And the flips.


I'm a huge fan of TPM just for the imagination in setting and production design (and SOUND design, which is so good throughout the prequels and one area where I think the new movies really dropped the ball). Yeah the script is a mess and the acting is bad, but if it hadn't been a Star Wars movie, with all the weight of those expectations, I think it'd be a fondly-remembered cult classic today.

I agree a lot of the Prequel stuff was bad, but I think the new trilogy kinda hits more of a nerve with the userbase. Especially when Disney takes the actual ideas and actors from the OT, the faces we are so familiar with. Now they even got Billy Dee Williams (where was he hiding for the past 30 years?). The Prequels did their own thing, silly as they sometimes were, but the Sequels just can't be divorced from the OT.

With how big Disney is and the fact that LucasFilms is just a name now, it's really hard to not embrace the cynicism unfortunately. :/

Regarding the Rey flipping around comment: I thought it was believable for Rey to go around Starkiller base easily because she was familiar with climbing around Imperial stuff back in her home planet (those opening scenes in the junkyard). And basic combat in TLA because she had to fend for herself from childhood. Was that intended? Dunno, but it made some sense. But then TLJ happen and things just went weird.

I still think Droidekas are awesome.

I personally never understand this opinion from real Star Wars fans but opinions are like a certain bodily orifice. Everyone's got one.

I'm actually somewhat optimistic about this new film but after the train wreck that is The Last Jedi it doesn't have to do much to be better. I think it would have been better to not tease the Emperor but I guess it's going to be pretty hard to remain spoiler free until the movie is available to [legally] watch at home.

The epic revenue implosion implies that the new movies actually are much worse and in a different way than the prequels

I think it’s the best prequel by a pretty wide margin, actually. It’s a freestanding story that doesn’t seem constrained by having to fit into the rest of the “saga.” And it has the feature that ESB and ANH have, where you follow characters as they travel through the galaxy. It doesn’t jump around from world to world, following different plot lines, as LotR does, or the other prequels do, which actually makes the galaxy seem a lot smaller, because it lacks any sense of discovery.

Also, they didn’t green screen the **** out of it.

I think if they'd left out the original cast members entirely there would have been just as many complaints, lots of "it's just not Star Wars." They're kind of in a damned-if-you-do scenario. The real problem with Star Wars is that "Star Wars" means something different to everyone who likes it. But everyone thinks their feelings abt Star Wars are universal. You can't make a Star Wars movie that everyone will like. It's why Rogue One didn't succeed despite being designed in a lab to appeal to old-guard Star Wars fans who only liked the OT and practical effects.


That's pretty understandable, and a lot of my friends and coworkers have been fired b/c of Disney so I definitely don't have a rosy-eyed view of everything they do. I think their handing exclusive game rights to EA was not a good move from a user POV. But I do think they've actually done a pretty decent job thus far of encouraging risk-taking like Rogue One and Solo and The Last Jedi. Arguably those risks did not pay off and I wouldn't be surprised to see them start reigning their creative talent in moving forward, but they could have been playing it a LOT safer than they have been so far.


I totally think there's a lot of stuff in the new movies that's dumb and makes no sense, I'm just saying there's a lot of stuff in the old movies that's also dumb and make so sense. I don't think that's the reason we like or dislike these movies--it's the stuff we pick at after the fact to try to understand our emotional reaction & why we can't recapture that sense of childhood wonder (imo? it's cause we're old and mad now)

Droidekas ARE awesome and I used to have a toy one that you could roll on the floor and it'd flip open. I think. Maybe that was a Bionicle.

Solo was a disaster but the rest of them have made more than the prequel films if I'm not mistaken? I am very interested to see how Revenge of Skywalker does.

Even so, I think the churn out time for what suppose to be the new main-line trilogy is surprising, eyebrow-raising-ly short and the seams are coming apart fast. I feel that Rian Johnson could have made TLJ something much better given the time. Speculation of course, but here we are and its the last movie already.

Is it the optimal approach for Disney to burn out this license as quick as possible than to gradually move forward? After all, they bought the rights and didn't raise it up from nothing.

When I say I like it, I mean that only in that I can completely turn my brain off and it doesn't try to pretentious me with its characters or plot. So it's watchable. Not magnificent at all.

Ironically the Darth Vader hallways scene is one I like least. It's far too fan servicey for me.



10 year olds also think the gummy bear song is the height of music. Realizing **** you liked as a kid is awful isn't a defect, it's something that hopefully happens. Kids have much different taste from adults

Some internet denizens argue that Star Wars was "always for kids" and that if you don't like it now you're just ""jaded"". Which is just ****ing wrong, I don't even know how to express it any other way. Star Wars and ESB were very clearly written for a more adult audience. Lucas purposefully diverted aspects of the film to sell more toys. So yeah, the two films most adults agree are the best Star Wars films are also the ones which make no attempt to appeal to children. In other news, adults don't listen to the gummy bear song.

Also, as an aside, I absolutely hate "nostalgia!" arguments. Nostalgia to me is when you can't detach yourself from emotions and rewatch something critically. There are parts of ESB I think are very weak. The Hoth battle is a good example. Most of the ships flying look pretty bad, and the stop motion on the AT-ATs looks crappy. It was an achievement for the time but it doesn't hold up. I felt like skipping it when I watched ESB a couple months back.

That said, I still think all in all it's a great film, for some reasons I'll express below.



Alright, I'll let you in on a little secret. Generally speaking, plot comes second to characters when making a timeless film. The Dark Knight, for instance, is not remembered for the plot. It's remembered for Heath Ledger's astonishing performance as the Joker. The OT may not have had the best performances ever, but Harrison Ford gave one of his best and the characterization holds up well.

I recommend rewatching the OT in terms of characters, then watch the ST. When you try and ask the question "how is the character developing in this scene?" you will find the ST spends a massive amount of time jerking off over nostalgia and generally wasting time doing very little. The OT pushes characters forward in a much more direct and consistent way. It's not unique or flashy, but it's well-done, and that's a huge reason the films still work today.

So yeah, the fact ESB's plot moves forward well is enough. Small time frame holes don't add up to much when the film successfully invests you in the characters.



So I agree with this, 100%, people are dumb and don't understand the films. The biggest issue with Rey is the film doesn't do much to get you involved with her or care at all. She's just characterized very weakly.

No, I think you're right about the turnaround time. I think they imagined they could run it the same as Marvel and they're finding that's not the case. I hope they dial it back to one movie every two years or something, but I'm not confident that'll happen. They may well run it into the ground.

IMO Solo was a bellwether for those one-off movies they wanted to do more than it was a referendum on TLJ, but I guess time will tell.


oh my god is this what being a woman feels like all the time

No, the optimal strategy is what Bob Iger is doing. Give the IP some time to breathe before deciding where to go. It's clear that with Solo he decided to pump the brakes on future projects.

TLJ box office is about even with TPM adjusted for inflation. But its production budget was 3 times bigger, marketing budget was Disney times bigger, and it had every possible tailwind working for it, including distribution deals that forced theatres to give up a much larger take and run it on more screens for longer (crowding out the competition).

Basically, even Disney knew it was gonna be ****. I’m not afraid to agree with them.

Then there’s the merchandising. Disney doesn’t break it down but FY18 had BF2, Solo and TLJ, and they were down pretty far from FY17 on merchandising. Word is, TLJ toys sold much worse than even Rogue One toys, but the high water mark was Star Wars Classic toys sold in 2015 in the lead up to TFA and revenues haven’t recovered since that movie came out.

I’m not writing this to say “well the free markets deciding something so you should hate it too”, I’m just saying, I can smell a dead fish. This is going very differently than the prequels did.

That's fair--I was wondering abt the merchandising numbers. One of the really irritating things abt TLJ was how much it became a political shibboleth, all my idpol feminist friends say they love it and all the gamergaters say they hate it. I always thought the internet hate for that movie was a non-representative echo chamber but I may be suffering from the same thing. I really am genuinely interested to see how the next movie does. If it does anywhere near as poorly as Solo I will concede defeat, haha