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Thread: The Rise of Skywalker

  1. #81
    I've refined my theory of "Rey is Shmi" a bit. Actually, upon reflection, I realize now I'd already intimated the beginning of this theory a whole year and a half ago, just after watching TLJ:

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    [...] just after eliminating that lame Snoke character, Rey broke what I consider to be the focal point of the movie--the incredible sexual tension that had been building between herself and Ben [...]
    Think about it. Rey and Kylo were basically texting one another telepathically through the Force toward the end of TLJ. I don't think I need to be too explicit to suggest where this is likely to go in the next movie.

    But this is a big problem: we're basically talking about an unplanned pregnancy, potentially of a Sith baby. Furthermore, despite their obvious lust for one another, Rey and Kylo are sworn enemies. I think Rey is already solidly matched against Kylo, and is only growing in her force sensitivity.

    So, say she succeeds in slaying Kylo. But where now can she safely raise her child, without fear of shame and reprisal for creating this abomination of the Force?

    Enter cackling Palpatine Force ghost. Remember how Sidious lured Anakin to the dark side with the promise of great power? In his case, it was the power to stop Padme from dying. In Rey's, Palpatine promises her the ability to escape.

    It's just that in this case, the only safe place to raise young Anakin is, in fact, not far away in space, but in time. Turns out: the whole "virgin birth" canard was a hoax, and "Shmi" was simply hiding in a familiar place, in a different time. And Sideous knew he was getting his most valuable asset out of the deal: Anakin would be secretly nudged by his machinations from afar by the Sith Lord, until he could be groomed into the Empire's most deadly weapon.

    What does this all mean? It means that, not only is Kylo his own great^(1+3n) grandpa, but Leia is her own great^(1+3n) grandma, and Anakin is his own great^(1+3n) grandpa as well.

    FWIW, it looks like Reddit already discovered this theory 6 months ago, so I'm not alone.
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 04-14-2019 at 04:03 AM.

  2. #82
    Well, it's not much of a stretch for J.J. to do something like that...
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  3. #83

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid
    100% sarcasm
    Thank you for restoring my faith in Massassi!

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    I've refined my theory of "Rey is Shmi" a bit. Actually, upon reflection, I realize now I'd already intimated the beginning of this theory a whole year and a half ago, just after watching TLJ:



    Think about it. Rey and Kylo were basically texting one another telepathically through the Force toward the end of TLJ. I don't think I need to be too explicit to suggest where this is likely to go in the next movie.

    But this is a big problem: we're basically talking about an unplanned pregnancy, potentially of a Sith baby. Furthermore, despite their obvious lust for one another, Rey and Kylo are sworn enemies. I think Rey is already solidly matched against Kylo, and is only growing in her force sensitivity.

    So, say she succeeds in slaying Kylo. But where now can she safely raise her child, without fear of shame and reprisal for creating this abomination of the Force?

    Enter cackling Palpatine Force ghost. Remember how Sidious lured Anakin to the dark side with the promise of great power? In his case, it was the power to stop Padme from dying. In Rey's, Palpatine promises her the ability to escape.

    It's just that in this case, the only safe place to raise young Anakin is, in fact, not far away in space, but in time. Turns out: the whole "virgin birth" canard was a hoax, and "Shmi" was simply hiding in a familiar place, in a different time. And Sideous knew he was getting his most valuable asset out of the deal: Anakin would be secretly nudged by his machinations from afar by the Sith Lord, until he could be groomed into the Empire's most deadly weapon.

    What does this all mean? It means that, not only is Kylo his own great^(1+3n) grandpa, but Leia is her own great^(1+3n) grandma, and Anakin is his own great^(1+3n) grandpa as well.

    FWIW, it looks like Reddit already discovered this theory 6 months ago, so I'm not alone.
    **** it, this would actually be interesting. I give it a thumbs up for being so bad it's good.

  6. #86
    But why would Sideous do that if he knew it would result in his death? What could possibly be the long-term strategy that would justify the decision?

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    What does this all mean? It means that, not only is Kylo his own great^(1+3n) grandpa, but Leia is her own great^(1+3n) grandma, and Anakin is his own great^(1+3n) grandpa as well.
    So if you do the math, how much more mind blowing would this revelation be than the revelation than Vader is Luke’s father?

  8. #88
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    "No one's ever really gone!"

    "Meesa be coming backin!"

    If that was the line in the trailer I would have smashed that **** with an upvote and shared it everywhere. Please cut Sidious and give us Jar Jar.

  9. #89

  10. #90
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    That's pretty good actually lol

  11. #91
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    This guy made an interesting video about how people end up latching onto brands for a sense of identity. Something to consider whenever you see people get offended when you don't like a film trailer.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    So if you do the math, how much more mind blowing would this revelation be than the revelation than Vader is Luke’s father?
    Since there are an infinite number of valid statements like this (one for each choice of n≥1), I'd assume it's infinitely more mind blowing. Edit: or maybe the novelty tapers off logarithmically with n...
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 04-14-2019 at 04:57 PM.

  13. #93
    I think your idea is pretty cool. I want you to remember to compare it to what they actually do.
    "I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16


  14. #94
    I'd pay money for any kind of plot twist that made me laugh. Otherwise I doubt I'll even see the next film.

    It's kinda like the prequels, actually: I didn't see Revenge of the Sith for years after it was released, because Clones was so bad.

  15. #95
    Back in the day I really didn't have a problem with EP I. AotC was the most egregious but I did praise the clone battle scene on the bug planet. I also like the Yoda combat scene. Other than the maternity droids, I really don't remember ever having a huge problem with RotS. Oh, yeah, the dumb "no," at the end of it but that didn't actually bother me at the time. I do think TPM has aged the worse and does come across as genuinely bad over a sizable portion of it now.
    "I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16


  16. #96
    A cursory google search turns up more Reddit discussion echoing this theory. In this version Palpi sends Rey back against her will.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspe...uncle/ekuvkv3/

  17. #97
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    Man, Rey is an astoundingly annoying character. Her writing and directing is so bad, that I'm not sure any acting skill could overcome it. It feels like they have no idea how to make her charismatic or sympathetic, so they just crank up the angst to 100.

  18. #98
    TFA and TLJ were really bad, you guys.

    The thing is, despite all the talk of fan service in the sequel trilogy, what could they have done to please fans more than have scenes where Luke, Leia, Han and Chewy are all together? Why are they only a peripheral part of the drama, when we've spent years adoring those characters and wondering what happened to them after RotJ, and when we really don't give a crap about these new characters?

    I think in part I'm okay with the sequel trilogy my brain doesn't let me accept that the sequel trilogy is canon, and so I'm free to imagine for myself what actually happened during Ep 7-9.

  19. #99
    ESB
    ANH
    RotJ
    Rogue One
    Solo
    TPM
    RotS
    AotC
    TFA
    TLJ

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    ESB
    ANH
    RotJ
    Rogue One
    Solo
    TPM
    RotS
    AotC
    TFA
    TLJ
    I'm on board with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obi_Kwiet View Post
    Man, Rey is an astoundingly annoying character. Her writing and directing is so bad, that I'm not sure any acting skill could overcome it. It feels like they have no idea how to make her charismatic or sympathetic, so they just crank up the angst to 100.
    The debates about it I find so cringe too. It's nothing to do with her powers, like the "Mary Sue" complainers say, but much more how it was framed and written.

    This is how I imagine a better version of TFA working: Kylo captures Rey. She's held captive in Starkiller base for a while. Frame it so she seems trapped, helpless. Then interlace a few scenes of her learning a bit about the Force into the main action. For instance, when no one's in the room have her knock over something on a shelf. Then maybe she escapes by force pushing a lever and knocking out a guard.

    There you go. This way it actually shows her develop a bit, instead of the scene I still don't fully understand where she just randomly uses the Force and it doesn't make much sense. It would also get the audience more like, into her progression a bit. I still find the scene where she randomly tells the stormtrooper what to do confusing.

    Also her knowing what was in Kylo's head was a poor man's ripoff of this scene from Harry Potter:



    Except she just calls him pathetic and there's no point to it, unlike Harry Potter where it's an important character developing moment.

  21. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    TFA and TLJ were really bad, you guys.

    The thing is, despite all the talk of fan service in the sequel trilogy, what could they have done to please fans more than have scenes where Luke, Leia, Han and Chewy are all together? Why are they only a peripheral part of the drama, when we've spent years adoring those characters and wondering what happened to them after RotJ, and when we really don't give a crap about these new characters?

    I think in part I'm okay with the sequel trilogy my brain doesn't let me accept that the sequel trilogy is canon, and so I'm free to imagine for myself what actually happened during Ep 7-9.
    I concur. I'd already read what happens after RotJ when I was 12. Granted, I sadly was reading Kevin J Anderson rather than Timothy Zahn, but at least it meshed with the setting of the OT.

    The Disney movies are best appreciated as glorious trainwrecks, something to shudder at with glee from a safe distance.

    Finally, the trailer crossed my mind again, and I still have to think WTF is with the flipping action over the TIE Bomber? And it's flying at that low altitude?
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 04-16-2019 at 12:27 AM.

  22. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    ESB
    ANH
    RotJ
    Rogue One
    Solo
    TPM
    RotS
    AotC
    TFA
    TLJ
    I'm glad to hear from at least one other person here that thinks RotJ wasn't all that bad, and also that AotC was atrocious (and RotS only polished that turd a little bit).

    Actually, now that I think about it, the worst part about RotJ is the fact that Lucas is so utterly cynical for inventing Ewoks, probably for the sole purpose of cashing out on toys for even younger children.
    Last edited by Reverend Jones; 04-16-2019 at 12:32 AM.

  23. #103
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  24. #104
    omg

  25. #105
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    if only Cary Grant were an untrained, homeless, dumpster diving, orphan semi-jedi

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    Finally, the trailer crossed my mind again, and I still have to think WTF is with the flipping action over the TIE Bomber? And it's flying at that low altitude?
    When I played MGS4, I laughed during this scene. It looked so ****ing stupid to me I thought it was meant to be a joke.

    Later on, I spoke to some people who were big into Metal Gear Solid. I talked about how stupid I thought that scene was and they completely disagreed. Told me I couldn't be wrong, it was badass, etc.

    I realized that some people have awful ****ing taste and think dumb **** like that is cool.

    I mean, Disturbed still sells music right?

  27. #107
    well I dunno. My first thought viewing a bit of that clip brings this to mind.

  28. #108
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    I loved metal gear solid (except the last one with jack bauer), but lord is it all a bunch of over the top animey garbage.

    I think the problem with Star Wars (and lots of action movies) is that they either need to be good (like saving private ryan or gladiator or braveheart) or fun (like raiders of the lost ark or die hard or john wick or thor ragnarok). It's hard to be both. The last few star wars are neither.

  29. #109
    Admiral of Awesome
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    TLJ's throne room scene was inspired by The Wizard of Oz, so

  30. #110

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    Would you consider Star Wars redeemed if Rey tried to do that Tie Fighter flip and dies and that was the end of her character?

    Would you expectations be subverted?
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  31. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by ECHOMAN View Post
    Would you expectations be subverted?
    sure... but not until it becomes clear that the equivalent of Neo won't succeed in bringing her back to life.

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECHOMAN View Post
    Would you consider Star Wars redeemed if Rey tried to do that Tie Fighter flip and dies and that was the end of her character?

    Would you expectations be subverted?
    No. Yes.

  33. #113
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    The only way Disney can subvert my expectations at this point is if they cancel episode 9

  34. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    The Disney movies are best appreciated as glorious trainwrecks, something to shudder at with glee from a safe distance.
    Yeah, that's exactly how I see them.

  35. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    Actually, now that I think about it, the worst part about RotJ is the fact that Lucas is so utterly cynical for inventing Ewoks, probably for the sole purpose of cashing out on toys for even younger children.
    Aside from the Ewoks, does RotJ have any negative qualities? (The derivativeness of having a second Death Star?)

    I think the Ewoks even have redeeming qualities, despite being manufactured cuteness. At least they can be read as the embodying an anti-colonialist critique of the imperialism of industrial societies.

  36. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Jones View Post
    well I dunno. My first thought viewing a bit of that clip brings this to mind.
    I just rewatched that movie for the first time since, I don't know, 1996, and it's genius. It had me going back and rewatching other James Bond movies. Moonraker, also so much fun.

  37. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    Aside from the Ewoks, does RotJ have any negative qualities? (The derivativeness of having a second Death Star?)

    I think the Ewoks even have redeeming qualities, despite being manufactured cuteness. At least they can be read as the embodying an anti-colonialist critique of the imperialism of industrial societies.
    I grew up with RotJ as a child so I never actually got to think critically about the fact there are primitive teddy bear warriors in Endor. At some point I remember thinking they were just wookiee children or something like that. Now that I think about it, it really is pretty silly, but nowhere near hurts the fact RotJ is great (and my favorite movie in the saga too). I also don't think there's anything intrisically bad about ewoks other than their appearance (and some silly jokes they take part in).

    The character development in the tusken camp sequence alone in AotC is better than any character development in the sequels IMO.

  38. #118
    RotJ is fantastic. Making a second Death Star is slightly lazy, but the setup for the draw-dropping space battle and the spellbinding character arcs it enables completely pays it off.

    I always used to get chills from the John Williams' rendition of the Imperial March theme for the scene of the emperor's shuttle arrival on the Second Death Star.

  39. #119
    OF course not nearly as lazy as the EU novel where they had ANOTHER death star, sun crusher, etc. (at some point they'd just have to turn the whole universe into dragon ball z).

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eversor View Post
    Aside from the Ewoks, does RotJ have any negative qualities? (The derivativeness of having a second Death Star?)

    I think the Ewoks even have redeeming qualities, despite being manufactured cuteness. At least they can be read as the embodying an anti-colonialist critique of the imperialism of industrial societies.
    I rewatched it and felt that Harrison Ford was giving a parody performance of Han Solo. His character during that film feels forced and unnatural compared to previous iterations of his character. Then I read later on that Harrison Ford wanted no part of the production and wanted his character dead.

    I think if you analyze it critically you'll see what I mean. Han Solo in 4 and 5 is often trying his luck, but only because he's pressured into those situations by circumstance. Han Solo in RotJ seems to do it out of stupidity, and he is about as convincing in delivering the writing as he is in Blade Runner (come at me).

    George Lucas was indeed trying to give a commentary on the Vietnam War throughout Star Wars, it just never really worked.

    I think most of Endor is not worth watching too, to be honest. I only watch RotJ for Vader's redemption arc, which has plot holes of its own. Like whatever the **** Luke's plan was going to Endor to begin with. The space battle is just alright to me. There's nothing I care about character wise so it's like watching people from a different language and culture having an only slightly heated argument.
    Last edited by Reid; 04-16-2019 at 04:09 PM.

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