While most of what you say is true, many of the bands I listen to are signed to RIAA record labels(there are a lot of them after all), but I have rarely ever heard their music on the radio. The only way I found out about them was going to a concert, hearing a band I liked, buying their sampler CD, visting their website, visiting their record label's website, finding other bands under the label, and then downloading their music by either MP3.com or Kazaa to give it a sampling. Now, since the record label is fairly small and the bands are not that big either, I probably would not get targetted by the RIAA for sharing their music. But, since they are a RIAA record label, I still run the risk of getting caught by them.

But, along the lines of what you said, most of what people are getting caught with can be 'sampled' on the Radio and TV.

I download music to sample it. In fact, 3/4 of my mp3 collection I have bought legally on CD after listening to it. The rest I don't listen to much anymore.

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)
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The Matrix: Unplugged

I'm a C4D b****!

No matter what, getting music for FREE will always be cheaper than buying it. The only way the RIAA can stop music piracy is to either:

a) Get people to volintarily delete there MP3s and stop sharing.
b) Persecuting those who still have/distribute illegal MP3s.

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GhostOfYoda - General doer of stuff.

I fail to see why you're quoting me on this. I never stated that downloading music illegally was okay, I just said that whether it's legal or illegal is irrelevant to me. In other words, I don't care whether it's okay or not. Downloading music isn't an issue of morality to me, so it's neither okay or immoral. I don't research every song that I download to make sure it has nothing to do with the RIAA, although my guess would be that 90% of the music I listen to on a daily basis doesn't. That's not intentional, it's just the way things are, because of my tastes.



OMG it's the end of the world. Wolfy speeds and I may possibly be downloading illegal music. I'm more outraged by the fact that you speed at the mall than I would be if joe schmo downloaded a million mp3's that he was never going to pay for anyways.



The downloading of music should in no way be compared to stealing a tangible object. The only thing that is baseless is your example.

GBK said it best...





I'm not the one to make the argument, because music isn't a necessity for me, but I'm open-minded to the possibility that it may be for some people. I don't need to download music, I choose to for a multitude of reasons. Most of the music I download has been out for years and the CD's are still overpriced. I'm not going to wait for my music to be played on the oldies station before I can afford it.



My point (although poorly stated once I look back at it) is that eventually there isn't going to be a material good that is ripped. Sorry about the confusion.



Why is that so difficult to believe? If these pay services offer a great selection at a reasonable price, I don't see any reason why most people wouldn't take advantage of it. As a matter of fact, I'd predict that the majority of people would purchase legal music while also downloading illegal music, if these pay services can't give them everything they need. I'd pay 25 cents per mp3 just to have the damn file named properly (who are these idiots that can't name mp3's right anyways?).



I will admit that I'm not always on top of my game, but there are many posts in this thread that are far more baseless than mine. We all work with what we have...

DeTRiTiC-iQ: I think most people here understand what you're saying, but it's turned into more of a philosophical debate than anything at this point. I honestly don't know whether any of my music is covered by the RIAA, but if I had to guess, I'd say that about 10% of it is. That alone is enough to keep me from purchasing their music.

This debate is beginning to go in circles, just like the other ones. Personally, I think 1/2 of the people who claim that they don't own any illegal music are probably fibbing.


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http://www.napalmdeathsquad.com

[This message has been edited by MentatMM (edited January 30, 2004).]

So, you are receiving the benefits of a service (enjoyment of music) without the permission of the artist, and without giving him or her the compensation they request in exchange for your enjoyment of their music.

I steal a loaf of bread. I'm enjoying the benefits of a service (enjoyment of a sandwich) without the permision of the distributor, and without giving him or her the compensation they request in exchange for my enjoyment of their bread.



Wait, what's the point of having morals if you don't actually follow them?



I'm willing to fully accept the consequences of my actions. Are you fully willing to accept the full penalty for illegally downloading material that doesn't belong to you?



Because you can't afford it, it's okay to steal it?

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

Having morals doesn't mean you follow them, it means when you don't follow them you know what you're doing is wrong. People falter.

I hate to drag religion into this, but to highlight a point: A true Christian believes that sex before marriage is wrong, that doesn't mean a true Christian won't have sex before marriage.

...why?

I mean, besides because it helps your argument.

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Shut up. I'm GOING to do this whether you like it or not.

[This message has been edited by Tracer (edited January 31, 2004).]

MentatMM, If you have legal mp3s, fine, if not, then you are simply making excuses to justify your downloading of illegal mp3s

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

If you copy and upload music, you are not taking money off the company who made it (which would be stealing), you are simply preventing them from making more money. I, personally, think that it is immoral, but I wouldn't say it was stealing. It needs a new name.

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GhostOfYoda - General doer of stuff.

Piracy hurts more than just the artists and the record companies. It also hurts the retailers. I recently read an article about several locally-owned record shops that were nearly driven out of business from the lack of sales due to piracy. They had to sustain their business by selling other items such as clothes and novelty items. People are hurt by this, like it or not.

Now, I agree that CDs are overpriced and that the RIAA should have seen this coming. However, that doesn't justify piracy. Music is a luxury. We've all become spoiled brats who feel entitled to our luxuries.

It's also a luxury to live in a country where a lot of people for a long time were willing to pay that much money for music, simply because they could afford it. In a less fortunate country, that wouldn't occur. And there are certainly more useful industries which would benefit from money not spent on a nonexistant item -- if you don't manufacuture it, you only have to spend the money once.

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The Internet will steal your soul.

i just find it a little ironic that all these artists say they make their music for the fans, yet they expect their fans to always have 20 bucks lying around to spend on them? hello ignorance. and just for the record i did a marketing project that goes above and beyond to prove the cost of renting a studio and making the cd, teh revenue is CRAZY. im not justifying that oh you should go download music coz the celebrities are still making money even if you illegally download and arre still stinkin rich. im just saying for all those fake *** celebs who keep saying this 'we're in it for the music' crap.


edit: oh yeah adn back in the day of the cassette, was it illegal to tape music off a radio? coz theres enough equip. off there to burn off the radio onto a cd.so er? is it? nad if it was, how come there wasnt thing big of a deal of that? almost EVERYONE had a radio, not EVERYONE has a computer adn internet access right now. i just find that weird.
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[teletubbie voice] BIG HUG!!!! [/teletubbie voice]

[This message has been edited by Wolvie17 (edited February 01, 2004).]

Wolfy: I don't know how many times I've said this. There is a clear legal distinction between stealing and infringing on a copyright. If you want to make grand moral equivilencies, fine, but stop trying to pass off "not stealing" as "stealing" through pseudo-legal nonsense.

And bread is a good, not a service. The vendor is selling the physical object.

Who among the pro-piracy camp has any idea how difficult it is to make a living as a musician?

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Shut up. I'm GOING to do this whether you like it or not.

Don't you watch MTV cribs, Tracer

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Of war, we don't speak anymore

Huh?

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Shut up. I'm GOING to do this whether you like it or not.

Because, as we all know, people are as financially successful as Blink 182, 50 Cent, and Dave Navarro.



Then perhaps it's time to amend the legal definition.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

It's difficult because huge corporations control everything. It's no longer about art, it's about profit. In the end, music piracy blurs the line between stinkin' rich musicians who have more money than they can possibly spend in their lifetimes and musicians who aren't nessessarily less skilled but are starving on the streets.

Those less fortunate musicians (mainly independant artists) have such a hard time gaining exposure because the RIAA spends great ammounts of money just to keep their music from being heard.

So now I fire your question right back at you;

Who in the pro-RIAA camp has any idea what it's like to make a living as a musician?

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

If you plan on actually making a living off of being a musician, then you can't do it "just for the music." Music will have to be your business, not your art.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead