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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Music Activism - RIAA RIP
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Music Activism - RIAA RIP
2004-02-01, 3:45 PM #1
With the RIAA being a thorn to everyone's side lately, I've found a network of sites that are ready for a revolution. I don't know if these have been posted before, but I recommend that everyone takes a look. I strongly believe that if we somehow "turned off" the Big 5, everybody could listen to the music they wanted to and also support the artists they love.

Tune Recycler - You can send them your unwanted iTunes Pepsi bottlecap codes and they'll use them to support independent music.

THE REASONS
to get rid of the major record labels - A very enlightening read. Check this out.

RIAA Information Awareness - Another enlightening and rather funny way on how these guys showed the masses the greediness of the RIAA.

Downhill Battle - The official site of the musical activists.

iTunes iSbogus - You thought iTunes was the future of paying the artists and everything seeming fair? You were wrong.

What A Crappy Present - Now your little sister can help dismantle the RIAA! Very funny and sarcastic (I think).

RIAA Radar - YES! A search tool that finds if a CD is on a record label owned by the RIAA. An awesome tool.

Peer to Peer Legal Defense Fund - Read the stories of the victims of the RIAA that have been sued, and even donate via PayPal.

Do you agree with these ideas? I think it's very important that the masses understand what the RIAA is doing to the music industry, and think this is a good way to show them. Post what you think.

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Space Colony Inc. Phoenix Suburban City Dereliction
"I'm afraid of OC'ing my video card. You never know when Ogre Calling can go terribly wrong."
2004-02-01, 4:20 PM #2
It's good to see people are fighting back.

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-02-01, 4:49 PM #3
Kind of like fighting back when you steal the actual CD from a store, claiming they should offer it for free.

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Please frame your insults in the form of a question.

"What a bunch of blowhards." - Kieran Horn
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2004-02-01, 4:51 PM #4
What ever. The RIAA will win because they have more money than what they know what to do with.

Wonder how these legal battles affect their profits?

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
Pissed Off?
2004-02-01, 5:08 PM #5
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JudgeDredd:
Kind of like fighting back when you steal the actual CD from a store, claiming they should offer it for free.

</font>


Or fighting back when someone breaks into your home and steals your 12 year old kid's piggy bank.

Or yet, fighting back when someone higher up the ladder kicks you in the face so they can stay on top of you.

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-02-01, 5:24 PM #6
This thread will end up the same as all others. Wolfy is right, it is stealing, don't try to make up excuses to justify it. If you want to steal, fine, but just admit you're stealing.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2004-02-01, 5:28 PM #7
Wait, I thought we said it wasn't stealing. Just copyright infringement.

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www.dailyvault.com. - As Featured in Guitar Hero II!
2004-02-01, 5:42 PM #8
Next, let's debate the definition of "is."

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"I am downright amazed at what I can destroy with just a hammer."
-Atom and His Package
2004-02-01, 6:04 PM #9
theft

\Theft\, n. [OE. thefte, AS. [thorn]i['e]f[eth]e, [thorn][=y]f[eth]e, [thorn]e['o]f[eth]e. See Thief.] 1. (Law) The act of stealing; specifically, the felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same; larceny.

Note: To constitute theft there must be a taking without the owner's consent, and it must be unlawful or felonious; every part of the property stolen must be removed, however slightly, from its former position; and it must be, at least momentarily, in the complete possession of the thief.


There you go folks. Music piracy is, by definition, not stealing.

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-02-01, 6:12 PM #10
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Flexor:
theft

\Theft\, n. [OE. thefte, AS. [thorn]i['e]f[eth]e, [thorn][=y]f[eth]e, [thorn]e['o]f[eth]e. See Thief.] 1. (Law) The act of stealing; specifically, the felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same; larceny.

Note: To constitute theft there must be a taking without the owner's consent, and it must be unlawful or felonious; every part of the property stolen must be removed, however slightly, from its former position; and it must be, at least momentarily, in the complete possession of the thief.


There you go folks. Music piracy is, by definition, not stealing.

</font>



Exactly. You're not depriving anyone of anything when you download a song. You are merely making more instances of that file.

if the RIAA had been smart, they would have bought out the mp3 technology when it came out in order to keep a lid on it and keep it off of the internet.

They will never stop downloading. Even if they do prosecute, what are they going to do, sue everyone that has ever downloaded a song? The courts would grind to a halt within hours and the entire justice system would come to a standstill.

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Most people regard me as the dark and immoral side of Massassi. At least I'm getting what I want out of life.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited February 01, 2004).]
2004-02-01, 6:14 PM #11
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pagewizard_YKS:

Exactly. You're not depriving anyone of anything when you download a song. You are merely making more instances of that file.

if the RIAA had been smart, they would have bought out the mp3 technology when it came out in order to keep a lid on it and keep it off of the internet.

They will never stop downloading. Even if they do prosecute, what are they going to do, sue everyone that has ever downloaded a song? The courts would grind to a halt within hours and the entire justice system would come to a standstill.

</font>


Just like the Gas and Oil companies are sitting on the patents to all the more efficient fuel combustion technologies, to prevent them from reaching the market and thereby allowing people to buy less Gas and Oil? [http://forums.massassi.net/html/rolleyes.gif]

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)
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DSettahr's Homepage
2004-02-01, 6:16 PM #12
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DSettahr:
Just like the Gas and Oil companies are sitting on the patents to all the more efficient fuel combustion technologies, to prevent them from reaching the market and thereby allowing people to buy less Gas and Oil? [http://forums.massassi.net/html/rolleyes.gif]

</font>


I'd believe it unless given evidence that says otherwise. Kill your competition before it becomes a threat.

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Most people regard me as the dark and immoral side of Massassi. At least I'm getting what I want out of life.
2004-02-01, 6:22 PM #13
I wasnt saying I disbelieve the Gas and Oil companies do it, I meant that I know they do it and that it sucks. And for the same reasons, I'm glad that the RIAA did not buy out the mp3 techologies when they were first being developed.

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)
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DSettahr's Homepage
2004-02-01, 6:24 PM #14
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pagewizard_YKS:

Exactly. You're not depriving anyone of anything when you download a song. You are merely making more instances of that file.
</font>


Yes, according to exact, literal definition of stealing, music piracy is not theft.

However, you are depriving people of income and violating copyrights. Other people are adversely affected by your actions (Gooooooooo assonance!) whether you are to acknowledge it or not.

Oh well, I guess there's no point to these debates. People will just continue to illegally download no matter what services become available or how low album prices drop, and my ranting about it isn't going to change any minds.

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"I am downright amazed at what I can destroy with just a hammer."
-Atom and His Package
2004-02-01, 6:29 PM #15
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Wuss:
Yes, according to exact, literal definition of stealing, music piracy is not theft.

However, you are depriving people of income and violating copyrights. Other people are adversely affected by your actions (Gooooooooo assonance!) whether you are to acknowledge it or not.

>Yeah, the rich RIAA execs won't get paid this week if people download songs. Tough s*** for the Riaa. What about all the independent labels and artists that have been screwed for all these years by the RIAA?

Oh well, I guess there's no point to these debates. People will just continue to illegally download no matter what services become available or how low album prices drop, and my ranting about it isn't going to change any minds.

>At this point, we should be more interested in killing the RIAA rather than waiting for them to drop Cd prices. Why should we play by their rules?

</font>




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Most people regard me as the dark and immoral side of Massassi. At least I'm getting what I want out of life.
2004-02-01, 6:30 PM #16
Screw it. It doesn't matter if it's stealing. Data is Data. I'm not against the RIAA for MP3s. I'm against them for destroying the Music Industry.

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10 of 14 -- 27 Lives On
2004-02-01, 6:31 PM #17
What the real problem here is not whether or not the RIAA is in the 'right'... Its how they are going about asserting the fact that they are.

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)
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DSettahr's Homepage
2004-02-01, 6:35 PM #18
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">There you go folks. Music piracy is, by definition, not stealing.</font>


You mean, "music piracy is, by definition, not theft according to the law." For that matter, neither is identity theft or plagiarism, but no reasonable person would object to the statement "he stole my research".

[This message has been edited by Argath (edited February 01, 2004).]
2004-02-01, 6:53 PM #19
Audio compression isn't something the RIAA could buy and sit on.

Wuss: You aren't depriving the artist of income by not buying their albums :: You aren't depriving BMW of income by not buying their cars. An artist has a right to have his label's copyrights protected, but not to have his albums sell.
2004-02-01, 7:31 PM #20
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Using the term "illegal" in front of a P2Per is like waving a cross in front of a vampire. They will do anything to avoid it. They'll shuck and jive and BS and set up straw horses, anything not to acknowledge the simple reality that the vast majority of this activity is illegal.

They'll say things like, "Not all music sharing is illegal." That's like saying, "Not all marijuana use is illegal." It may be technically true, but outside of the Netherlands, the exceptions prove the rule. You wouldn't call pot smoking legal in the US because of a few exceptions to the general rule, but that's just what P2Pers do all the time.

There is one big difference between the P2Pers and pot smokers, though.

Pot smokers have at least a reason for having less-than-optimal touch with reality, but when have you ever had a pot smoker, no matter how stoned to the bone he or she is, ever deny that pot smoking was illegal?

Most will certainly say that pot smoking shouldn't be illegal, but no matter how wasted they get, they never confuse what ought to be with what is.

This complete denial of reality is what has always most baffled me about P2Pers as a group. It prevents them from getting up to the level of potheads and saying, "Well, we ought to change the law." No one seems to be the slightest bit interested in creating a P2Ping equivalent of NORML (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws).

The Pepsi ad simply demonstrates what nonsense the "see no evil" approach is. You will go nowhere in the real world by denying reality. The only chance you have is to accept the reality and then try to change it.

The P2Pers need to get as smart as the potheads.</font>


http://www.overclockers.com/tips00514/

A short little article worth reading.

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The Matrix is not Linux compatible.
<Lyme> I got Fight Club for 6.98 at walmart.
<Black_Bishop> I am Jack's low price guarantee
2004-02-01, 7:53 PM #21
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Flexor:
with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same; larceny.

every part of the property stolen must be removed, however slightly, from its former position; and it must be, at least momentarily, in the complete possession of the thief.
</font>


1-The rightful owner is the record company, that's why the own the rights to songs.

2-If you're trying to say that because it's an mp3 it's not stealing, think again. Digital music is just a different format. It's like a record, CD or cassette. It still contains what is copyrighted.

Now, that being said, I agree w/Emon. It is stealing, but if you want to steal, I'm not going to stop you (speaking generally, and not just to Flexor).



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-There are easier things in life than finding a good woman, like nailing Jello to a tree, for instance

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-There are easier things in life than finding a good woman, like nailing Jello to a tree, for instance

Tazz
2004-02-01, 9:02 PM #22
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tazz:
1-The rightful owner is the record company, that's why the own the rights to songs.

2-If you're trying to say that because it's an mp3 it's not stealing, think again. Digital music is just a different format. It's like a record, CD or cassette. It still contains what is copyrighted.

Now, that being said, I agree w/Emon. It is stealing, but if you want to steal, I'm not going to stop you (speaking generally, and not just to Flexor).

</font>


I never said the reccord company wasn't the rightful owner of the rights. What was said is that those rights were never taken away.

The same argument applies for your second point. Mp3 is a format like CDs and cassettes, but it's only data, thus it costs absolutely nothing to reproduce. Nothing is taken away.

If you're not happy with the definition of the word stealing, then invent your own damn language.



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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-02-01, 9:09 PM #23
I'm for and against downloading. I'm against people never buying cd's and just illegally stealing artists' work by downloading.

I'm not against people sampling songs and then buying the albums. Kazaa is more convenient than the sampler tunes on amazon.com in this respect.

I downloaded 2 songs off of Damien Rice's album 'O'. I now own Damien Rice's album 'O'.

I still believe that downloading is wrong and that by downloading those 2 songs I stole. I believe in buying the albums/songs in order to say thank you to the artists. iTunes would be awesome if it was around 69 cents per song, the price right now is a little high for me due to me being a poor college student.

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please
"Those ****ing amateurs... You left your dog, you idiots!"
2004-02-01, 9:10 PM #24
Flexor: Does it really matter? You can win your stupid little semantics arguement if it makes you feel better, but the fact of the matter is you're depriving record labels of money they'd have if you acquired the music through legal channels!

[This message has been edited by Sine Nomen (edited February 02, 2004).]
A desperate disease requires a dangerous remedy.

A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.

art
2004-02-01, 9:37 PM #25
And not just the record companies, but the atrists, retailers, low level employee, truck drivers, etc.

Anyway, what'd I'd like to see is the artists themselves own the rights to their own music. It would get rid of a lot of the gray area that there seems to be these days.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

[This message has been edited by Avenger (edited February 02, 2004).]
Pissed Off?
2004-02-01, 10:07 PM #26
I'm not going to comment on the piracy issue, as that doesn't really affect Canadians anymore.

I'll say this though: I don't like the RIAA. I think it's a bane upon the music industry as a whole. I would love to avoid buying any product released by a member of the RIAA, but that's basically impossible given how much money they spend on covering up their member list - most likely specifically so they can avoid being boycotted as a whole.

I am beginning to wonder, however, where the line between legitimate organization and cartel is.
2004-02-01, 11:17 PM #27
Legitimate means you have politicians in your back pocket.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
Pissed Off?
2004-02-01, 11:25 PM #28
Round and round and round we go. This thread is becoming a weekly event.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1 & 2 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97
2004-02-01, 11:41 PM #29
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sine Nomen:
Flexor: Does it really matter? You can win your stupid little semantics arguement if it makes you feel better, but the fact of the matter is you're depriving record labels of money they'd have if you acquired the music through legal channels!

[This message has been edited by Sine Nomen (edited February 02, 2004).]</font>


I'm aware of that. It matters because people are comparing it to stealing a CD in a store, which is very different.



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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.
The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
2004-02-02, 4:47 AM #30
independent music wins, but its a minority in a huge oligopoly.

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.
2004-02-02, 5:43 AM #31
I would have said it wasn't stealing, because making a duplicate of something isn't theft, or at least I assume not, because of all the fake "Brand Name" clothes. It's not like stealing a CD, because that's something physical. It's like borrowing a copy of the CD and making your own copy, which isn't theft itself, but something else. You are not TAKING anything, you're merely reproducing it.

However, I will admit to copyright infringement because that's what it is. I will buy CDs... if they were reduced from £15. A while back, I brought Dookie for £5.50, which was great value. And I don't mind paying that. But as soon as the RIAA get their heads out of the a****, we may see that it will become free flow of information.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

-- Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights"</font>


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The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever.
-- Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, The Father of Rocketry

[This message has been edited by - Tony - (edited February 02, 2004).]
Hey, Blue? I'm loving the things you do. From the very first time, the fight you fight for will always be mine.
2004-02-02, 6:06 AM #32
...I hate it how people turn piracy into some noble crusade to free the information.

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Shut up. I'm GOING to do this whether you like it or not.
COUCHMAN IS BACK BABY
2004-02-02, 7:34 AM #33
Tony:

http://www.play.com

visit. browse. purchase. pay Evil_Giraffe's wages.
Detty. Professional Expert.
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2004-02-02, 8:15 AM #34
Do you know who else likes sharing?

COMMUNISTS
Those bees all have paws!
2004-02-02, 8:19 AM #35
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.
2004-02-02, 9:14 AM #36
Uhh, guys, did any of you read the articles? How the hell did this P2P argument get started?! This thread is about how the RIAA controls the music industry, and how we can help the independent musicians through this monopoly. If you didn't, read this, and post your thoughts. Also, I'm not justifying P2P. In fact, I'm against it as well.

JudgeDredd: A good read. I urge you all to keep an open mind. I think that's the problem around here...

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Space Colony Inc. Phoenix Suburban City Dereliction
"I'm afraid of OC'ing my video card. You never know when Ogre Calling can go terribly wrong."
2004-02-02, 10:14 AM #37
Interesting links. I especially enjoy the RIAA Radar, although I get many unknowns due to most of my music being imported. It's interesting to see that the vast majority of my music isn't under the RIAA and that makes me proud. ;]

Anyone know of any decent links that actually prove that file-sharing and/or illegally downloading music leads to a loss in profit for the artist and/or the RIAA? The few articles that I've read didn't offer any much along the line of facts or evidence.

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http://www.napalmdeathsquad.com
2004-02-02, 10:27 AM #38
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Whelly:
Uhh, guys, did any of you read the articles? How the hell did this P2P argument get started?!

</font>


It's just what happens here, all the time.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
Pissed Off?
2004-02-02, 10:29 AM #39
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MentatMM:
Anyone know of any decent links that actually prove that file-sharing and/or illegally downloading music leads to a loss in profit for the artist and/or the RIAA? The few articles that I've read didn't offer any much along the line of facts or evidence.

</font>


Clickey.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Major labels' sales are down 30% in the last three years, and some of the big 5 are scrambling to merge with each other.</font>



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Space Colony Inc. Phoenix Suburban City Dereliction
"I'm afraid of OC'ing my video card. You never know when Ogre Calling can go terribly wrong."
2004-02-02, 11:27 AM #40
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yossarian:
Do you know who else likes sharing?

COMMUNISTS</font>


[http://www.lyingsocialistweasels.com/downloading_communism.JPG]

<3

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