Well, the Russains lost something like 20 million in combat.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

Plus Russia was the only major allied country that got invaded

[This message has been edited by Freelancer (edited February 09, 2004).]

Indeed, Russia lost 10% of their pre-war population. That's staggering. Canada's and the Australia's losses are more comparable to the U.S. New Zealands losses were even worse than all three.

I just don't like this idea of 'levels', the per capita level of commitment and hence suffering from a lot of small countries who sent troops to this war was just as great as the bigger countries so that is what should matter.

I do kind of feel obligated to stick up for the deeds of the sometimes overlooked allied country's as both my grandfathers fought in WW2 from start to finish and were never really the same afterwards. So, yeah, forgive me if I seem...dogged.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1 & 2 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Guys, I wouldn't belittle the accomplishments of other nations. Just appreciate that you don't have to go through what they did.

I've posted this before a while ago, but, Canda's military really isn't all that bad .

For those inclined, odds are that anyone can find their nation's forces in THIS completely free, huge, well-made turn-based strategy game. ANZAC forces, Canadians, Ghurkas, Chindits, Republican Spaniards, Nationalist Spaniards, Guomingdang Chinese and even Finns.

It's about freakin' time, I say.

And the canadian army jokes were funny at first... now they've gotten very irritating. It has nothing to do with the fact that I'm canadian. I'm just very sick of them.

Keep in mind canada's population is about 1/10th of the population of the US. In proportion, our army is rather powerful.

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

Did you guys know that Canada provides a third of the world's supply of uranium?

Did you know that we were involved in the Manhattan Project?

Did you know that, prior to about the mid-80s, we developed and stored chemical and biological weapons?

No?

Look, dude, recognizing that America and Britain did most of the fighting in Western Europe doesn't undermine the bravery and fortitude of individual Canadians, but it is true. The role of the American GI overshadows that of other countries now because to some degree it did in WWII.

One other thing - criticizing the Canadian military isn't necessarily (and it shouldn't be) an attack on the bravery or training of Canadian soldiers. The fact of the matter is, Canada's military is terribly underfunded to be participating in peacekeeping operations in Afghanistan, to the point where it's causing senseless deaths. Case in point (this was in The Economist): a Canadian truck drove over a landmine, killing everyone in it. The truck was old, unarmored, and thoroughly unsuited to be driving through a combat area. If the Canadian military got the funding it needed, there might be three less soldiers returning home in body bags.

[This message has been edited by Sine Nomen (edited February 10, 2004).]

Yeah. This whole thing reminds me of an idiot (You may know him, Sine ) who whined about how Canada = terrist because we didn't send troops to Iraq. If we had, we would have been totally outmanned and outgunned, and we wouldn't have been able to keep up with the Americans anyways.

How about we just acknowledge all the soldiers efforts as a group and **** doing it by individual countrys? The fairest way to pay respect I'd say.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1 & 2 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

This is why patriotism needs to die. Unfortunately it probably never will.

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

I'm happy to see that the Canadians will be in a war game. I thought about that once when I played BF1942, 'Where are the Canadians'.
And btw, I think it's called BF1942 'cause that's when the US decided to help out. (just taking a jab )

Although I know that the Canadian military has been heavily underfunded by my good buddies here, the Liberals, I still hate the general attitude the world has when we all get together to help on a common mission (like the liberation of Kuwait or peace keeping in Croatia). Usually this attitude is displayed by ignorant Americans and Brits because they usually have the largest amount of resources poured into an operation like the ones I mentioned.
For example (before I offend anyone) I was watching Bill Mahr one night (I normally love Bill Mahr but this made me angry) and he was saying how the Danish government, a member country of the Coalition of the Willing, sent a submarine over to help in the efforts to take down Sadaam. He and his guests berated the Danish government and laughed while asking what the Danish government was thinking sending over a sub. 'What's that going to do? It probably won't even get here until we're done anyway.'
Yeah. That's right Bill you ****ing arrogant ****ing prick. Have you checked the GDP of the country and compared it to the offense budget of the US? Yeah that's right. The US's offense budget for the year was a few billion more than Denmark's GDP.
In that case (I haven't done the math) it's possible the Danes put more into the operation than the US did (I doubt it but it's possible).

bleh...
anyway...

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To artificial life, all reality is virtual.

So this thread made me play BF1942 for the first time in ages.

Damn that game rocks.

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

Now I'm just waiting for the patch where you can play as the Swedish volonteers in Waffen SS.

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"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
-Robert Jastrow

Why not Swedish volunteers in Finland?

/me strikes cheesy propaganda poster pose
Finlands sak är DIN!

Well, there's always www.silentheroes.se

That too.

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"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
-Robert Jastrow

Sine Nomen said exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you Sine.

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"What I find especially funny are the neo-Celtic religions based on accounts made by the Romans. It's like learning about Judaism from Nazi lore." --stat

*cough*WarinthePacificwithJapan*cough*



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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

I think I like Australians more than anyone. I've never heard an Australian say much more than "You know, we helped too." And they did, in fact, Australian soldiers have long been regarded as some of the most vicious and feared soldiers any country can provide. They function well in most terrain and maintain high morale in desert environments (something that requires a lot of money and free time for other forces). Australians have every right to brag about how wonderful their troops were/are, and yet they very rarely do. I often hear Americans say things about how their military is the most powerful in the world, and then they stretch the truth, refusing to admit weaknesses, the British refuse to let go of the past, they still believe their military forces are the best all around, and that the only reason the U.S. has a "better" military is because of numbers, and the Canadians that aren't humble generally frantically try to find something good, or stretch truths like the Americans, making up things about storm troopers (what country doesn't brag about having the most feared shock forces?) and bravery. I truly wish more people would be like the Australians, just know that they did in fact make a difference in the world, their forces were just as brave and were willing to stop tyranny where they were called upon, and yet rarely ever ask for credit.

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Roach - Steal acceptance, lend denial.

0 of 14.

Okay, America got 2, Britain got 2, and Canada got 1. I'm not going to try to make sense of the rest of the dribble and poorly learned history.

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There is no signature

I was grade110 histoy, almost three years ago, Sorry if i mix up a few details.

At least the Australians were featured in a movie, I think All quite on the western front was about an Australian group in africa during the war. Where are the movies for Canada? I don't know for sure, But I do know, that mostly all movies and games about WWII, and even WWI feature nothing but America and the UK, barely any mention of Canada or the French (yes, they were their too you know, they did fight)

America is overshadowning the fact that more countries fought, and I think it's about time the smaller nations were included in the game.

truth is, the States were content to sit WWII out, were they not? If Japan had NOT attacked Pearl Habour, America would not have been in the war, there was no reason for them to do so, was there?

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Inter arma silent leges

I wanted to create a country bent on destroying and underminding the Canadian Gov't but then I realized that you can buy video games for cheap their. It was called New Sudan. I even created a bible for it. It's only one chapter out of 79 pages( I was bored of KCA typing class). www.geocites.com/massiajim/bobble.html

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*Bjorn*
muhahahha FIRE!!!!!!!! >:) ;(.
hi

there was a huge political cleavage at the time about whither the US should enter the war or stay out of it. FDR wanted to get into it, but he knew he had to have something motivate the people so he had american ships escort british ships that were attacked by German "wolfpack" submarines. He was hoping that with enough casualities, the US citizens would get pissed enough. Rumor has it that FDR and Churchill were plotting to do some kind of fake attack on an American Navy(mock German ships attack empty, out-dated american ships) and absolutely devastate it. Then Pearl Harbor happened.

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"What I find especially funny are the neo-Celtic religions based on accounts made by the Romans. It's like learning about Judaism from Nazi lore." --stat

[This message has been edited by Kieran Horn (edited February 10, 2004).]

Most war movies centre on America because, well, they are made in America. The sad fact is the film industries of say Canada and Australia can't generally afford to make movies of the scale of war movies.

Australia has, well, Peter Weir's Gallipoli (1981..one of Mel Gibson's early roles, great film) and little else but the odd mini-series

Still, whilst I wouldn't expect Hollywood to make movies centred on the army of another country heh, some war movies don't show much of any of the other allies at all. I just think it also adds depth to such a movie to show the different angles.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1 & 2 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Hey, didn't "All quiet on the Western Front" take place during WWI and show the hell that was trench warefare? I haven't seen it, it just remember hearing that from somewhere.

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"What I find especially funny are the neo-Celtic religions based on accounts made by the Romans. It's like learning about Judaism from Nazi lore." --stat

Yeah, and the movie focuses on german troops. I think Grant is thinking of Gallipoli.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1 & 2 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

I am reading the book

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*Bjorn*
muhahahha FIRE!!!!!!!! >:) ;(.
hi

Battlefield 1942: The Novel?

"OMG BASE CAMPAR!!!"
"fu n00b"
"Requesting a pick-up!"
"Requesting a pick-up!"
"Requesting a pick-up!"
"Requesting a pick-up!"
"Requesting a pick-up!"
"Requesting a pick-up!"

Riveting stuff.

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

our army since world war one has progressively decreased because a) lack of funding b)willingness to minimize it because our roll in the world has changed greatly

now that we're wanting to maximize it again (because its too small) we're having some trouble. we totally kicked *** at dieppe, and we had a goddamn lot of people killed on d-day in general. some of the best airforce people in the royal somethin force, i forget history was two years ago for me..but anyway the RAF i believe, were canadian, because our farm boys as people like to joke, had insane practice on the land we have. i dont mind the jokes about our current state of military, coz its true. however this topic was about WWII involvement and the comments by like Kieran horn n etc are not appreciated. one of the reasons our military has been cut so short *gasp* might be because the whole world isnt out to get us.


its the empire branch off countries (canada, aussieland etc), britain itself,germany and france taht know what really went on in the trenches. id like to see a movie like that made from the canadian perspective coz we had like a million people army, and it seems crazy small to you now but compared to how little our population was back then (you think we're little now:P), it was a giant chunk or our pop. so..we gave a lot up for wwi, thus causing us to reduce our numbers in ww2, none the less like 60000 canadian casualities/deaths (i cant remember from grade 10 history) but either way. after wwi, we were the third largest military power in the world so stick that in your pipe and smoke it

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[teletubbie voice] BIG HUG!!!! [/teletubbie voice]

[This message has been edited by Wolvie17 (edited February 10, 2004).]

That very well could be the movie... Like i said, was like three years ago, I thinkw e watched both....

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Inter arma silent leges

RAF.....Royal Airforce....isn't that the British Airforce?

And I'm sorry if you are offended by my jokes. Every country has something that everyone else pokes fun at, and Canada's happens to be it's reputation as less than a technological military power in the world(whither it be true or not) and the the words "eh?" and "aboot".

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"What I find especially funny are the neo-Celtic religions based on accounts made by the Romans. It's like learning about Judaism from Nazi lore." --stat

[This message has been edited by Kieran Horn (edited February 10, 2004).]

yeah it is british air force, and lookie lookie they needed our people to fly their planes. and i knwo thats what you make fun of canadians for and thats our thing, just like we make fun of you guys but point is i dont go put down some president you people were all passionate about, and i dont degrade the heroism in your history by cracking a joke that has very little to do wtih the past, but more the present.

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[teletubbie voice] BIG HUG!!!! [/teletubbie voice]

erm, first, a million man army actually wasn't that big compared to some of the armies used during WWI, and even more so during WWII(but like you said, it's all relative to the population). And I seriously doubt Canada lost 60,000 men in WWII(which I'm assuming your referring to). The British Commonwealth lost 452,000 soldiers(and strangely, 60,000 civilians. of course, very few if not any at all were Canadian). Now, you would have to split up those casulties among Britian, Canada, Australia, India, and several countries and the West Indies and Africa that were part of the Commonwealth and fought. It could still be possible that Canadians lost 60,000 in WWII, but I'd put my money on the British losing the overwhelming majority of that number.

If Canada had the third largest military at one point, it had to have a very short period becuase you said that Canada ramped down it's military and Germany, Japan, USSR, and others saw huge military buildup in that time frame. But this is speculation based on what I know.

I'm not trying to belittle your country or it's achievements, I'm just trying to show you how arrogant you are being(and I don't mean the Canadians who have responded on this thread. I mean specifically you), even though that is supposed to be the American thing. btw, I do know that the current day US military gets it's strength from superior numbers and technological superiority, not necessarily better training or anything like that(though it is high up on the list). For instance, if Israel had an army the size of ours, they would mop the floor with us. Same goes for Turkey(also provided they had our technology).

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"What I find especially funny are the neo-Celtic religions based on accounts made by the Romans. It's like learning about Judaism from Nazi lore." --stat

Well, American flew in the RAF before the US declared war too you know. I also understand had some Prime Minister(i think) not poop-pooed some designs for a jet fighter, Canada would have had a technoligically superior airforce during the Cold War, if not still to this day.

And I'm wasn't making jokes about your people's heroism or sacrifices. I was making jokes using popular opinion about Canada's military technology. And I was not doing it to intentionally hurtful way. Like I said before, I'm sorry if I offended you.

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"What I find especially funny are the neo-Celtic religions based on accounts made by the Romans. It's like learning about Judaism from Nazi lore." --stat

God, I had so many spelling errors. I didn't proofread. Sorry.

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"What I find especially funny are the neo-Celtic religions based on accounts made by the Romans. It's like learning about Judaism from Nazi lore." --stat

[This message has been edited by Kieran Horn (edited February 10, 2004).]

Figures vary slightly, but from what I've seen Canada suffered 34,000 casualties (Australia 39,000).

Regardless if that's not 60,000....it's a hell of a lot and around the same amount of deaths per population percantage as the U.S.

Looking at all these numbers of dead....it's simply staggering to think about. Especially when you consider it was a -less- brutal war than WWI. Scary.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1 & 2 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

"per population percentage"? That's "per capita" . And I doubt what you said about it, but I don't know what the population of Canada was then, or the population of the US. So, I'll tkae your word for it. And if you want to know, the US suffered approximately 292,131 battle deaths and 115,187 deaths from other things(disease, drowining, etc).

And yes, I almost had **** my pants when I saw how many people died in WWI. Thank god for the invention of the tank.

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"What I find especially funny are the neo-Celtic religions based on accounts made by the Romans. It's like learning about Judaism from Nazi lore." --stat

[This message has been edited by Kieran Horn (edited February 10, 2004).]

Yes yes per capita, posting from work when manning the office solo leads to sadly rushed posts

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/statistics.htm

Where I got the stats from...they vary slightly at a lot of sites but essentially stay about the same. Australia/Canada 0.3%, U.S. 0.4%, New Zealand 0.6%.

I don't know why'd you would have doubted me....we're pretty tiny countries. In WW2 Australia only had an approximate population of 7 million, of that just under a million were enlisted in the AIF/Navy and Air Force and served abroad.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1 & 2 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Prime Minister Diefenbaker and the Avro Arrow. I grit my teeth when I think about that...


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"Well, it could be worse -- it could be windy!" -popular Canadian saying.

Bah... I hate 1.6, because basically it doesnt work on my computer.

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"Guns don't kill people, I kill people."