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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → CD + linux + ??? = ogg vorbis
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CD + linux + ??? = ogg vorbis
2004-02-15, 4:58 PM #1
Looking for a couple of programs:

1. One that will rip my .WAV files to my linux desktop

2. One that will convert the .WAV files into ogg vorbis

I'm running Dropline Gnome on Slackware. KDE sucks big time. (Just had to... [http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif] I just hate the cluttered feel it has to it. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif])

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2004-02-15, 6:01 PM #2
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mystic0:
KDE sucks big time. (Just had to... [http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif] I just hate the cluttered feel it has to it. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif])

</font>


GBK was your best bet for an answer, and now he's not going to [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]

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http://www.sporkaudio.com
gbk is 50 probably

MB IS FAT
2004-02-15, 6:04 PM #3
http://www.xiph.org/paranoia/

and

www.vorbis.com

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Of war, we don't speak anymore

[This message has been edited by Molgrew (edited February 15, 2004).]
2004-02-15, 6:16 PM #4
Yeah, did you ever think of checking the VORBIS HOME PAGE??? [http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif]

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mystic0:
...KDE sucks big time. (Just had to... [http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif] I just hate the cluttered feel it has to it. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif])</font>


Thems fightin' words.

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The future is here, and all bets are off.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2004-02-15, 6:22 PM #5
Got it. Really though, lets talk about KDE. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif] I tried it out today and I must say it is pretty cool, but it still hurts my eyes. I mean, gnome makes me feel all warm and tosty, where as KDE makes me feel like I'm in Las Vegas.

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2004-02-15, 6:26 PM #6
why ogg... it's worse than mp3 for audio quality

IN MY OPINION

[edit]now just leave me alone about it you know who you are molgrew[/edit]

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[This message has been edited by DrkJedi82 (edited February 16, 2004).]
eat right, exercise, die anyway
2004-02-15, 6:26 PM #7
The default theme for KDE sucks noodles. I cant even stand to use KDE with all defaults. Go get a good window decoration set, like Platik, and a good widget set, like Alloy. Then change the colorscheme to dullen things out. After that, its bleeding sweet.

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The future is here, and all bets are off.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2004-02-15, 6:28 PM #8
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DrkJedi82:
why ogg... it's worse than mp3 for audio quality</font>


I cant believe you just said that. Have you ever even USED Vorbis?

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The future is here, and all bets are off.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2004-02-15, 6:28 PM #9
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DrkJedi82:
why ogg... it's worse than mp3 for audio quality

</font>


Catch me if I'm wrong, but I thought ogg was notorious for being more efficient than mp3 as well as being free and open.

Yeah, and man oggenc solved all my problems... [http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif]

edit: yes, I did say oggdec...
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[This message has been edited by Mystic0 (edited February 15, 2004).]
2004-02-15, 6:30 PM #10
Boom.

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2004-02-15, 7:03 PM #11
I can't really stand Gnome, personally. It reminds me way too much of old versions of MacOS.... and those were some pretty bad memories.
2004-02-15, 7:19 PM #12
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jon`C:
...It reminds me way too much of old versions of MacOS....</font>


No, its worse. It aspires to the old MacOSs. The file pickers, the desktop menu bar, its all plucked right out of the older Macintosh. And it makes me sick just the think of it.

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The future is here, and all bets are off.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2004-02-15, 7:21 PM #13
As heathenous as it sounds, I wish someone would develop (or link me to [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]) a Linux WM that looks exactly like Windows. If I could I'd switch all of the computers in my house over, although I'd like something that my sister and mom are used to so I won't have to explain things. Like Bash.
2004-02-15, 7:26 PM #14
With the right widget set and window theme, KDE can be made to look just like Windows. Or jst like the Mac. Or just like Gnome. Its entirely up to you.


There is, AFAIK, a wm that aims to duplicate the win32 environment, but I dont recall the name. Last I saw of it, they had a good portion of it copied, including most of the system config dialogs. It was rather creepy, really.

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The future is here, and all bets are off.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2004-02-15, 7:48 PM #15
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by GBK:
With the right widget set and window theme, KDE can be made to look just like Windows. Or jst like the Mac. Or just like Gnome. Its entirely up to you.


There is, AFAIK, a wm that aims to duplicate the win32 environment, but I dont recall the name. Last I saw of it, they had a good portion of it copied, including most of the system config dialogs. It was rather creepy, really.
</font>

Are you talking about fvwm95? That's the only one I can recall right now that looks like 95/98/etc. And it sucks eggs [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]


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<scribbly handwriting barely resembling name>
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2004-02-15, 7:56 PM #16
http://www.xpde.com/

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http://www.sporkaudio.com
gbk is 50 probably

MB IS FAT
2004-02-15, 10:56 PM #17
Oh, a question I've been meaning to ask.... What does everybody think of the upcoming release of Reiser4? It sounds pretty impressive to me, but I've been using ReiserFS since I switched to Gentoo. I'd be interested in hearing how people think it will measure up against the other file systems.
2004-02-16, 3:20 AM #18
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DrkJedi82:
why ogg... it's worse than mp3 for audio quality

</font>


Back that up please.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
An ABX test is a test where two sources are compared. An ABX test can be a listening test, between two audio sources, a viewing test, between two pictures, etc.
ABX testing can prove to a certain level of confidence that one can distinguish between them. It can also notify you that you cannot perceive a difference between the two. It is not proof of quality, but it is proof of equal or disparate quality. That's why it is important for audio codecs, because you can prove that you can hear a difference between the original file and the encoded one by passing the test.</font>


http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=16295&

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Of war, we don't speak anymore

[This message has been edited by Molgrew (edited February 16, 2004).]
2004-02-16, 5:43 AM #19
ogg's license is a LOT nicer than mp3's
in order to profit from use of an mp3 decoder you have to *pay*
whereas ogg is free for encoding, decoding, whatever even if you make money.

*huggles open source, GPL, GNU, etc etc etc*

as for the DEs...
KDE and Gnome stink ;P
get Blackbox or Enlightenment (=

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why is a raven like a writing desk?
"*quickly adds in disclaimer that Is may still yet end up being slapped with a white glove, as all women are crazy and there are no rules*" --mavispoo
2004-02-16, 7:45 AM #20
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by NoESC:
http://www.xpde.com/</font>


Thats the one.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Is_907:
...as for the DEs...
KDE and Gnome stink ;P
get Blackbox or Enlightenment (=</font>


Can I by some crack from you? You seem to have more than you need.

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The future is here, and all bets are off.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2004-02-16, 9:03 AM #21
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jon`C:
Oh, a question I've been meaning to ask.... What does everybody think of the upcoming release of Reiser4? It sounds pretty impressive to me, but I've been using ReiserFS since I switched to Gentoo. I'd be interested in hearing how people think it will measure up against the other file systems.</font>


Don't know if you've already read this, but here is a rather lengthy descriptino of Reiser4:

http://www.namesys.com/v4/v4.html


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2004-02-16, 9:14 AM #22
Vorbis definitely sounds better. Well, MP3 can sound just as good, but it'll require much larger files. CD quality isn't 128 Kbps like GBK says (or used to), 128 sounds terrible even on my old Sennheiser HD 414s, I go with 192 Kbps. Or whatever the equivelant quality settings are.

That XPde thing looks pretty cool. I've never been able to find a WM or DE that fits me perfect as Windows. It's not that I don't like the lightweight designs of some WMs, or the innovative features of them, it's just that they lack many features I am so used to. KDE has always come the closest, but is too bloated.

Edit: And Resier 4 looks so awesome. It sounds like the perfect file system. Fast, reliable, you can't lose any data due to crashes. Ever. Right?

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited February 16, 2004).]
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2004-02-16, 9:21 AM #23
With a decent set of speakers and the latest ogg encoder, the human ear cannot hear a difference between a 128k Vorbis file and the source CD. Trust me on this. If you can, then youve got *really* good hearing...

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The future is here, and all bets are off.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2004-02-16, 9:32 AM #24
Er, I'm using FLAC right now... it only cuts the .wav file size down to about half, but then again it uses lossless compression. Does anybody have the size ratio for 128kb ogg to CD wav files?

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2004-02-16, 9:36 AM #25
A lot of people are able to ABX vorbis -q4 or whatever it is against the original (yes, even on 'cheap' hardware), it's a matter of training and experience and I wouldn't want anyone to be able to do it too one day and realize that everything they had ripped to -q4 to that day could be thrown into the trash

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Of war, we don't speak anymore
2004-02-16, 9:40 AM #26
Most people don't encode Vorbis at a certain bitrate, they use a quality setting instead (which results in a variable bitrate). I prefer my quality at 6, while using the gt3b1 optimized code.

Anyway, no file at 128k will sound as good as something like 192k, period. It doesn't even take a decent pair of speakers to figure that out. 128k will always be 128k, regardless of the encoding/compression method used.

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[This message has been edited. Deal with it.]
[This message has been edited. Deal with it.]
2004-02-16, 9:52 AM #27
I encode my music as --aps MP3s using LAME, but I think this program could probably do ogg. Grip is the program I use. Nice and GTK for you. Even though I prefer KDE.

Reiser4 looks really nice. I'm sad that you can't convert a Reiser3 FS to Reiser4. I don't think I can back all this up.. I'll have to at least reinstall Gentoo to make my root partition use Reiser4. When is it slated to go stable?

Oh.. one more thing. <3 KDE.
2004-02-16, 10:03 AM #28
Yeah, that could be a bit frustrating, but worth it for the most part.

I'm also looking forward to release 2.6.3, but that's just because I like milestones.
2004-02-16, 11:25 AM #29
Code: 
oggenc -q4 track04.cdda.flac


All you need to do. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]

Edit: On second thought, Grip is actually pretty cool. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif]
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[This message has been edited by Mystic0 (edited February 16, 2004).]
2004-02-16, 11:38 AM #30
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by GBK:
With a decent set of speakers and the latest ogg encoder, the human ear cannot hear a difference between a 128k Vorbis file and the source CD. Trust me on this.</font>


Where the crap do you get your crap from? I know your crap earbuds can't deliver sound worth crap, but anyone who buys some decent crap can easily hear the difference. And you don't even have to be an audiophile. I used CDex to rip the Deus Ex soundtrack to 128 Kbps Vorbis a while back, and it was good for the most part...until there came some bass notes. The opening theme sounding terribly garbled, it was crap. And this is on my crap Senneheiser HD 414 headphones, which are older than almost everyone here. That's right, 1968 headphones and I can easily pick out the crap. Crap.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2004-02-16, 11:42 AM #31
Uh... q10?

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2004-02-16, 11:44 AM #32
No, -q6-7 should suffice
(why not stick to FLAC, if you have enough space)

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[This message has been edited by Molgrew (edited February 16, 2004).]
2004-02-16, 11:48 AM #33
I know, I was responding to Emon's post about crap.

Edit: I can't really tell the difference between 900Kbps WAV and q6 ogg on crap $100 creative 5.1 speakers. Or maybe it's becausethe originall Star Wars was recoreded in the 70's.
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[This message has been edited by Mystic0 (edited February 16, 2004).]
2004-02-16, 12:04 PM #34
If somebody gave me a MP3, an OGG/Vorbis, and a CD and asked me to compare quality, I would say that they all sound the same.

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<scribbly handwriting barely resembling name>
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2004-02-16, 12:13 PM #35
[edit]this is faster than deleting[/edit]

[This message has been edited by DrkJedi82 (edited February 16, 2004).]
eat right, exercise, die anyway
2004-02-16, 12:16 PM #36
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DrkJedi82:

yes i've tried it and it sounded worse...

</font>



As I asked before, can you provide proof? That you can hear the vorbis file against the wav|mp3 in a blind listening test?

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Of war, we don't speak anymore

[This message has been edited by Molgrew (edited February 16, 2004).]
2004-02-16, 12:18 PM #37
Did you encode it yourself or did you hear someone elses? Some people don't understand that a lossy codec means that data is lost forever, so they try to do something stupid like take a 64 Kbps MP3 and reencode it at 320 Kbps or into Vorbis thinking it will make it sound better. I've got 320 Kbps MP3s that sound worse than other 128 Kbps MP3s. And if it's something you encodeded yourself, then you did something wrong, most likely chose an inadequate bitrate.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2004-02-16, 12:51 PM #38
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Here is, for example, how the PC ABX program works. The known reference is always available as stimulus "B". The known object (test sample) is also always available as stimulus "A". Either the reference or the object is randomly assigned to "X", depending on the trial. The subject decides whether "X" corresponds to the reference "B" or to the test sample "A".
The subject can listen to A, B, and X at will. No time limit. he gives an answer for each trial ("X is A" or "X is B").
A table gives the probability of having guessed by chance versus the number of trials and the number of good answers. If the probability is in the green (<5%) or, better, the yellow zone (<1%), the test is considered as successful. It means that the subject can reliably perceive a difference between A and B.
</font>


Prove it or stop making claims with no backup

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Of war, we don't speak anymore
2004-02-16, 12:53 PM #39
[edit]see above[/edit]

[This message has been edited by DrkJedi82 (edited February 16, 2004).]
eat right, exercise, die anyway
2004-02-16, 12:56 PM #40
Maybe your ear drivers have been 'optimized' for mp3. Remember Nvidia?

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