So i guess February is Black History Month. And so there's a little table set up about it in the commons on campus. On this table among other things is a sheet of notable dates in Black History.

One of them in particular was just simply to mindbogglingly amazing and eyestabbingly asinine for me to resist sharing with many people.

25: 1619, the first African-Americans arrived in America.

Just let that sink in for a while.

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"You'll have to face it, the endings are the same however you slice it. Don't be deluded by any other endings, they're all fake, with malicious intent to deceive, or just motivated by excessive optimism if not by downright sentimentality. The only authentic ending is the one provided here: John and Mary die. John and Mary die. John and Mary die." -Happy Endings [Margeret Atwood]
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

That isn't...what the...That's horrible.

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Home is behind, the world ahead, and there are many paths to tread. Through shadow, to the edge of night, until the stars are all alight. Mist and shadow, cloud and shade, all shall fade, all shall fade.

[This message has been edited by Rod-Nog (edited February 16, 2004).]

My sister Tam pointed that one out to me, and now i want to find the person who made that list and stab them in the eye with a rusty jellyfish..

There's a fine line between trying to be politically correct and being so completely wrong inaccurate and moronic that you deserve to have your breathing privileges revoked.. quite often a very fine line come to think of it.

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"You'll have to face it, the endings are the same however you slice it. Don't be deluded by any other endings, they're all fake, with malicious intent to deceive, or just motivated by excessive optimism if not by downright sentimentality. The only authentic ending is the one provided here: John and Mary die. John and Mary die. John and Mary die." -Happy Endings [Margeret Atwood]
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

/Me bangs head against desk.

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"Church, women are like Voltron, the more you can hook up, the better it gets!"
-Tucker
Red vs Blue

Ph34r t3h Cute Ones

One of my friend's reactions:

Him: LOL
Him: they arrived with the first americans to arrive in america
Me: i guess everyone was american back then..
Me: except there wasn't really an america yet..
Me: and they sure as hell weren't hyphenated
Me: and if they were it was Enslaved-Americans
Him: lol well i can understand the first blacks to arrive in america, using america as a place name for the continent... but how can they be african american if they were born in africa??
Me: here's a thuoght thuogh.. how often do you [or anyone else for that matter], think of Canadians as Americans.. i mean technically they are.
Him: for sure... but what do you call our continent?
Him: if you don't call it america...
Me: a cab.. ha ha ha.. *dies*

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"You'll have to face it, the endings are the same however you slice it. Don't be deluded by any other endings, they're all fake, with malicious intent to deceive, or just motivated by excessive optimism if not by downright sentimentality. The only authentic ending is the one provided here: John and Mary die. John and Mary die. John and Mary die." -Happy Endings [Margeret Atwood]
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

*shakes head*

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

*rolleyes*
this is a fusion of 2 very stupid things that annoy me.
1. Political correctness
2. singling out a group of americans for special defference. if you are not first or sencond generation of what ever ethnicity (you or your parents entered the country, or in the case of indians you are 100% or 50%) you deserve NO SPECIAL RECOGNITION. you are not a hyphenated title. you are 100% american, that is your ethnicity and only medicine should distinguish further.

sorry about that, i just get very irritated when the decendants of someone we oppressed (and we are sorry for doing it, because WE STOPPED) reaps the benefits of someone else's pain. we shouldnt deny our mistakes, we sould learn from them and teach them to our children and be sorry, but to use the mistakes of long dead men to justify giving special defference to certain groups is absurd. i am not just talking about black americans. decendants of indians, phillapinos, and we treated european immigrants like crap too (why dont we ever mention that). no race is superior, no race is inferior, every man is equal. therefore we should really hold true to our credo of equal rights, and abolish ALL special rights that are based on race.

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DUU BistX0rz ein N00b!

What the hell dude. You are going off on a tangent. If you need to vent, start another thread, cause you sir are looking for trouble. We have had this discussion MANY of times. So just eat it ok?

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

I agree.

Ubuu is right though avenger216. I do agree that Affirmative Action has in some cases been taken to the extremes, but you still have to remember that there ARE still people alive that remember life pre-Civil Rights Act, whose friends, fathers, brothers were lynched by the Klan. This is a touchy subject and isn't going to go away for a while.

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please

I have no problem with Black History Month. It just means different programming on the History Channel, various booths and informative signs around campus. In high school, it meant having brief (one or two week) notes on Civil Rights movement, etc.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

history is made by people of many different colours... we should study them all and we should do it all the time not just in february.

i call myself african-american. i'm an US citizen but i grew up in Zimbabwe...
so i think my perspective is very different on these things.

back home we study history. just history. the stuff white people did and stuff black people did. it all happened, it's all history, there were TONS of people hurt by it (many still living) and you know what? they don't care.

in fact the problem in Zim is reverse what it is here.
people have no problem with whites but the government (read: the president) is pushing for all whites to be irradicated (sp?)
so he puts pressure on the people (pressure as in threatening their lives, families etc) to attack whites.

the only racism we have now is caused by leaders trying to over-compensate.


oh and on topic...
1619??? why don't we just say they came with Leif =P


EDIT: ok, i've been inspired to rant more...
Entitlement:
in modern society we believe (without saying it) that we are entitled to everything.
this is evident in welfare being abused, people not taking jobs because they "just don't pay enough for such menial work" etc etc etc etc.
and also in the thought of "my great great grandma was the daughter of a slave so i deserve scholarships! i deserve a special month!"

it's not fair to give black people scholarships but neglect other minorities like... redheads.
you see, because i have red hair i'm in the minority and I deserve a scholarship because of the hardships minorities face.

there's no freaking logic in that!

[end rant]
(i'm so going to be killed for this post...)

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why is a raven like a writing desk?

[This message has been edited by Is_907 (edited February 17, 2004).]

Further rambling from a discussion about this last night with another friend:

Like i always wonder how many people get pissed off when someone calls them Japanese-American and theyre really from Korea or whatever.. hell i know some black people who are like screw that, i'm not African-American, i'm just american thankeeverramuch.

Most of those people that get hyphenated it's been billions of years since they even came over from the motherland in the first damn place.

Though i could just be bitter because there isn't a spot for Pictish-American on those little checkboxes.

Though i can go for 'islander' considering that the majority of my lineage is from Scotland/Ireland/England, oh and a couple from Novia Scotia, so i'm an honourary Canadian-American

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"You'll have to face it, the endings are the same however you slice it. Don't be deluded by any other endings, they're all fake, with malicious intent to deceive, or just motivated by excessive optimism if not by downright sentimentality. The only authentic ending is the one provided here: John and Mary die. John and Mary die. John and Mary die." -Happy Endings [Margeret Atwood]
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

The only group that we really have an obligation to give anything are the native North Americans. We have legally binding contracts with them. Contracts which have been broken time and time again.

I am Canadian. My parents are Canadian. My father's parents were Italian. My mom's parents were British subjects until Newfoundland became a Canadian province.
I am Canadian.

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To artificial life, all reality is virtual.

Is: On a side note about the scholarships, there is a site that catalogues most scholarships out there. There are scholarships for almost anything. I remember seeing one where if you had freckles you could get a $500 scholarship. Of course, people do this kind of stuff because it is tax deductable.

I can't remember the site name right now, but I'll find out tomarrow.

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Checksum: I thought about it, I guess I'm striving for my own personal ideals. I'll just project those ideals onto Jesus and say "I'm trying to be like Jesus" so that I won't have to listen to you banter endlessly about me worshipping a false god or some such.

The Last True Evil: Ironically, that's very Christian of you.

kieran: freckles??? HAHAHHAA
i should get that scolarship like 100x

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why is a raven like a writing desk?

Look, if white people never forced black people into slavery, this wouldn't be an issue, right? I think blacks deserve to get some special treatment after they endured the hells of slavery. Blacks didn't even have equal oppurtunities just a few decades ago...

Some of your fathers/mothers/grandparents lived during the times where blacks were segregated. Being called "nigger" and spat on isn't cool. A friend of my moms lived back then and he was the only black kid at a UF class... he was ridiculed everyday and was isolated from the class because he "smelled like a nigger."

Now I realize that other races and such had a hard time as well, but let's face it... blacks had it worst during the antebellum years. Sure, I think some of the black history stuff may be going too far, but I don't see why everyone is making a big deal about wanting a special month for themselves... Don't you think that blacks should have a lil somethin to themselves after so much was taken away from them?

I applaud people's effort to truly make all the races equal. I bet in a few decades or so, when blacks/whites/asians/etc are equal intellectually and equal in oppurtunities at a good life, affirmative action and such will disappear. I think programs such as affirmative action are ways to try to balance out our culture so we are truly "equal under God."

The way I see it is this: Whites took a whole lot from blacks in the past. Now, people are letting blacks take precedent in oppurtunities to make up for what whites took. When both have equal amounts, that special precedent will be taken away and everyone can live happily ever after. Hopefully when this "balancing out" is over, racism will be over as well.

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My Tracks

I love you!

Too bad most people think that giving us back for what we lost is not needed, just because it was their ancestors who did it, and not them.



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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

Yeah, and I think its funny when white peeps ask us why they can't say "nigga" to us...

I always tell em that their fathers/forefathers called us that enough. We were called "nigger" as a word of hate, but now when we say "nigga," we have changed the hateful word into a word of brotherhood. The word can't really be applied by whites cuz they never knew the hate and pain the word brought to its target audience back then.

I think that we say "nigga" as a way of keeping our ancestors spirits alive, and to tribute a sort of respect to them.

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My Tracks

[Edit: Actually, forget it. This would probably just stir up an argument I don't want]

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"This hole is octogo. Ogiganeel. It's Octa.. It's got eight sides."
"We interrupt this program again, A. to annoy you, and B. to provide work for one of our announcers."

[This message has been edited by LividDK27 (edited February 17, 2004).]

ok then Em and Ubuu, I want special treatment because i was kicked out of Zimbabwe for being WHITE.
how about all the japanese put in camps during world war 2 right after pearl harbor? they "deserve" compensation, too, by your logic.

if you want "compensation" for previous generations then how about Sicillians? they were enslaved by Romans... hmm... i think we owe them way more than blacks.
or how about Indians? (not american indians)
they are opressed not only in the US but also in Africa and Europe. many people spit on them and won't go to shops run by indians.

go to a country with real racism problems. it'll open your eyes.


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why is a raven like a writing desk?

Don't put me in that field. I dont say nigga. It just causes too much trouble, and we are looked at as hypocrite. The only time you will see me say it is if I am reciting lyrics.

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

You know, it'd be nice and all if you'd acknowledge the fact that slavery in Africa had been quite common prior to the involvement of European and American slavers, perpetrated by Islamic and African tribal groups.

Were you enslaved? Were your parents enslaved? Did my parents enslave you? Did I enslave you? The answer is no. The only group that deserves some sort of compensation are the Japanese-Americans interned during WWII and Native Americans.

Of course, by that logic, I guess I should receive money from the U.S. government because my dad's ancestors supported the British rule of the colonies, and subsequently were driven out to Canada by the colonists. The emotional scarring haunts me to this day.

Do you also believe that the German government should give compensation to all the Jews? That the Catholic Church should give money to Protestant churches for the persecution they perpetrated? Are you willing to give Canada a whole lot of money for our repeated invasion and assault of their cities? Do you think Austria and France should give Mexico money for the years of mistreatment they suffered under their rule? Will you be willing to give the Hawaiian natives compensation for toppling their government and establishing an occupation?

If you said "yes" to all of the above, then I have no problem with your support of recompensation of black people.



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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it

What do you want me to do? I am a kid. If I had the money I would look out for these people. And your examples do you know justice. Those things happened in other countries. We are no responsible for the racism exhibited in Africa and Europe.

And you get your facts straight. I am the first American born of my family. MY WHOLE IMIDATE AND EXTENDED FAMILY WAS BORN IN AFRICA. I have been raised to love everyone no matter what color. And you wanna know why maybe you were kicked out of your country? Maybe because europeans came to africa not too long ago and tried to take over everything. Get your facts straight.


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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

Sure I do, but I can only affect the country I live in. Why don;t you worry about America?

See I knew this bull**** would come up once a Black History Month topic came up.


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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

Er...American invaded Canada, and Americans toppled the Hawaiian government. Last I checked, that was our country. Read my examples from now on.

This isn't "bull****." This is objecting to being forced to pay for something that I didn't do. This is objecting to the fact that I'm being held responsible for what people did when I wasn't born.

Let's reverse the situation. I get beat up by a group of black guys to the point of death, but, just in time, I'm rushed to a local hospital and live. Now, I know my great-great-grandchildren won't have suffered the same thing I did, that those black guys' great-great-grandchildren won't have done anything, that the entire African-American race isn't to blame, nor is the entirety of the nation. But, by God, they're going to compensate for the mental and emotional damage done by that one group of guys.

Wow. That sounds incredibly stupid. But...hey, wait a minute. If you reverse the races in that situation, it's what we're discussing. Look at that!

Of course, I guess you'll pull the "whites were the major cause of harm to black people during years of slavery." Slaves constituted 3/5 of the population in the Southern, slave-holding states. The worst treatment a black servant suffered at the hands of a northern master was being denied education - unless, of course, you're going to call Frederick Douglass a liar.

So, a minority of a group causes harm to a group of people, and 140 years later, people not even related to that minority have to pay? Logic?

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it

[This message has been edited by Wolfy (edited February 17, 2004).]

...I havent seen Ubuu say one thing about reparations.

He just said that people deserve equal respect and that we should remember what was done to blacks during that time period, similar to why we remember the Holocaust.

The oppression of blacks didnt end with slavery like some of you guys try to make it sound like. They were mistreated and kept down well into the 1960s. Hell, one of the last Klan lynching cases I've heard of was in the 1980s. And it wasnt a minority perpetrating it either, it was the US and state governments keeping blacks from voting, from receiving proper education and equal protection under the law.

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please

[This message has been edited by Schming (edited February 17, 2004).]

ubuu expressed agreement that, if he had the money, he would financially compensate the peoples listed by Is_907. He also said he supported the recompensation of others groups mistreated by others, and did not object when I said he supported the recompensation of black people.

The idea that I have to pay for other people's actions is ridiculous. I see it as no different than me being forced to pay Armenians as compensation for the on-going Turkish persecution of them.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it

[This message has been edited by Wolfy (edited February 17, 2004).]

ubuu...
yeah, SOME euros/brits tried to control everything. but *I* certainly didn't. nor did my parents or my grandparents (we were there as *missionaries* not a hostile takeover force)

and my point with Sicily etc was that your logic does not work. you're not getting the point of that argument.

don't take me as anti-black or anything like that. some of my best friends growing up were black and most of them could care less that i was white or that my ancestors had opressed them.

and Ubuu, your family probably saw a lot of anti-whitism in Africa... so let's say your extended family that's still there has to compensate the next five generations of whites there. how's that sound?
sounds stupid to me.

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why is a raven like a writing desk?

My ancestors were slaves to white people after the Civil War ended. After being freed by the Czar, part of my dad's family immigrated to the US with very, very little money. They have never been wealthy. I am white. Am I not entitled to compensation and scholarship money?

Your using an example of getting your *** whooped one time, compared to a century of oppresion? Stop this bull****, you are mocking the lives of millions.


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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

SOME. Please, open the blinds or something. Let the sun shine come on in.

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

This thread is living on borrowed time....



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Most people regard me as the dark and immoral side of Massassi. At least I'm getting what I want out of life.

ubuu... have YOU lived in Africa?
I have... i think i know what i'm talking about.

and once again you are MISSING THE POINT of Wolfy's arguments and mine.

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why is a raven like a writing desk?

1.) Sine - I believe that because blacks have faced generations in which they were prevented from equal oppurtunities in education, they deserve scholarship money. In the end, poor white folks were better off than the average black person. The poor white man got accepted before the black man. This was true until just a couple of decades ago.

2.) Other countries exhibit different policies than America. Sure, I believe that Jews should recieve money as well, but we're not talking about America. America has decided to apply affirmative action, not any others. Also, as I said before, Jews/Japanese-Americans/etc, haven't been denied education for many, MANY generations.
Blacks have, which is why they should recieve some help in that area.

3.) Wolfy - Invasions and such don't count. War is a political tool. Just like the saying, all is fair in love and war. We didn't go into Hawaii/Canada and enslave everyone. Your point about being beat to near death doesn't apply to the situation as well. A group of white guys could do the same to you and they SHOULD have to pay for the damages. You would go to court and sue them for it.

Now, if you say that generations of your family was beat/raped/denied education, sure I wholeheartedly agree that you should recieve special care and aid. I'm sure you could apply for that, as long as you had proof, and would be accepted.

Your saying that a minority of whites caused harms to black so it doesn't make sense that others should pay: Everyone in America knew about slaves, yet they did nothing about it. Not doing something to help mitigate a problem is almost as bad as the person doing it. Its like if I see someone killing your mother and running away, and me not saying anything to anyone, wouldn't you see me as bad? Wouldn't you wanna beat my *** cuz I didn't tell anyone until years later when someone else told you about it? Same thing applies here.

Yes, slavery happened in Africa. But it was not NEARLY as bad as the slavery in America. Sometimes slavery was a pretty good life in Africa. Some slaves got to be close to the family they were with and slept in the sames rooms and such. Slaves in Africa weren't raped, called names, lynched, and such.

Japanese-Americans HAVE recieved compensation for the camps in WWII.

Your dad's ancestors being driven out is pointless... war is war. You're trying to say that anything bad that has happened to you deserves compensation. That's not the way it works.

4.) Is_907 - Being kicked out of a country isn't even close to being denied education for generations and generations. Also, we're talking about America... Not other countries so giving examples of other countries deserving compensation and what not doesn't apply. But I do say that: Anyone who has been mistreated and denied education for many generations deserve compensation, so you guys know my stance on that.

I've never heard of Indians getting as mistreated as blacks have. The next closest in my opinion are Muslim Arabs.

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My Tracks

[This message has been edited by Em Playa (edited February 17, 2004).]

ok, we'll go ENTIRELY hypothetical:
i'm a person who's family has been persecuted for whatever reason and many of my predecessors (sp?) were killed for _____ belief/race/etc.

for two or three generations that has not happened and *I* have never been under such pressures.
my FAMILY deserves compensation NOT ME.

if i'm a fifth generation christian persecuted by the government, police, military etcetera but i myself have not been abused by them then i do not deserve any kind of repayment.
if they want to make it up to me then they can apologise and just not do it again (and make sure my position is recognised as equal or whatever the case may be)

and all our arguments about other countries are VERY valid. you obviously don't understand the POINT we're trying to make.

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why is a raven like a writing desk?

Yes, you'd deserve compensation because you're going to be affected by your family not recieving education. Many blacks live in poverty because they were denied the oppurtunity to succeed in the past. They don't KNOW how to educate themselves because they were DENIED education in the first place. If your family didn't know how to cook their whole life, and all of a sudden you were given the oppurtunity to cook, would you know how? Your parents wouldn't know how to support you cuz they never learned the skills. Many blacks are lazy because after the civil war, they couldn't go to school and learn... they could either do menial work or do nothing.

Do you think its coincidence that minorities need more help in school today? Or do you think that we're just dumber than white people?

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My Tracks

Oh, and if whites never enslaved blacks, do you think this argument would be going on right now? The extent of what they did to blacks has had THAT much of an impact today. Kids are still talking about it.

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My Tracks

No I have not lived in Africa. Please do not say you have been lynched, beaten up, and denied a job and education. You know it isnt true.

An no, I am not missing any points, because your arguments are faulty. THIS IS AMERICA. WE WORRY ABOUT WHAT WE DO HERE. IN AMERICA. GET IT. AMERICA.

You would be a fool to think that what the europeans did in africa was justified and had no impact on anything. Is that way many African countries have cities named after great eurpoean adventuerers? Is that way a good 75% of the countries speak French? Where did the learn it from? The europeans. Come on now man, get your act together.



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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

Oh, I love you Em Playa. I suck at the internet, so I can get my point across very well, but you say pretty much everything that I believe.

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

WHEN DID I SAY IT WAS JUSTIFIED????
no, I have not been beaten but i have FRIENDS who were imprisoned because they are white.
one good man ran a farm... he had several hundred acres of land and provided tons of food for the country but now he has barely enough land to grow food for his family and make a tiny bit of money.
why? the war veterans are squatting on the land.
and he's not the only one. there are others.

and if you only care about america then you're the one being closed minded and just plain stupid.

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why is a raven like a writing desk?