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ForumsDiscussion Forum → G4 vs P4 w/ HT extreme edition
12
G4 vs P4 w/ HT extreme edition
2003-12-09, 5:48 PM #41
Cool Matty does have somewhat valid points, although not exactly put very nicely...

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">1. No software.</font>

There's a lot more software than there used to be, but the lack of it is because no one writes it. This statement alone I see as a poor argument against Macs, since it's not at all an issue with the Macs, which is the same thing PC fanatics will say to Mac fanatics when they comment on the poor quality of Windows and other Microsoft products. "It's not the computer, it's only the software!" So yeah, same thing. But the real valid point here, I think, is for an average user. Let's say Dave has been using PCs for years, and wants to try Macs, they seem pretty cool. Hey, it's got Internet Explorer, Microsoft Office, all the stuff Dave is used to! But...wait, now Dave has to go re-buy them from Microsoft at their insanely high prices. And I've heard some of the Mac ports of Microsoft software are almost nothing like the Windows versions. So this poor guy has to go all through that for... not much benefit.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">2. Upgrade? Throw it out, get a new one.</font>

You really should do more research, other than watching that one video with the Hispanic guy making fun of the lack of games. Seriously. Yeah, Macs aren't as upgradable, expandible or customizable as PCs, but by no means are you stuck using one single, complete system for several years.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">3. Speed. Hah, yea right. It's only faster cause it doesn't have a proper program to benchmark it with.</font>

No, actually, it isn't even that much faster. Maximum PC did a pretty good benchmark recently, AMD vs Intel vs Apple. It seemed pretty unbaised to me, they tested a fairly good variety of applications, and pretty much made their judgement from the standpoint of an average to power user. The latest and greatest 64-bit G5 dual CPU system couldn't keep up with it's P4 or Athlon 64 competators, which were single CPU and 32-bit, even running applications like Photoshop, which Apple claims to be incredibly faster than a PC. Well, at one time it was faster, but that was with the MacAddict filters. But you really have to wonder there. Anyways, the G5 was, overall, on par with it's PC competitors. Awesome for video editing? Yeah, but I would think because of stability. You're running on a BSD-based OS, with software designed for that OS. Windows can maybe come close to approaching that stability with Longhorn, but I'm still skeptical. But really, you can't be working on some movie matte, and then have the OS crash, and go tell your boss you aren't meeting production deadlines or something.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">4. May I refer you to the version number of OS X? What is it? 5 OS's in 4 years?</font>

...so? If I recall, you're at least a somewhat avid support of Linux. Many Linux distributions release new versions every six months!

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">5. EXPENSIVE</font>

Not as expensive as they used to be, but yes, a problem. They do a lot of stuff in-house, so that's going to be expensive.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">6. Hi, I'm Mr. Incompatible with most standards, nice to meet you.</font>

Well, I sort of agree. It's not as bad as it used to be, but it still seems like they just **** around and change stuff just to "Think Different."

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">1. Virus free: Because no one uses it, so of course no one is going to bother writing a virus for it.</font>

If I recall, it's virus free because of the security model used in UNIX-like OSes. Just like how you don't see any viruses for Linux. Although, I'm a little confused as to why there's anti-virus software available for OS X. I'm not all that familiar with the OS, but I'm willing to bet it's not nearly as robust as some of its *NIX counterparts.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">4. 64BIT PROCESSING! On what? Quicktime rendering? Oh good, now we get trailers an hour earlier than usual. Oh wait, that's right, quicktime is crappy and ad-maniac just like its Realplayer counterpart.</font>

The QuickTime player really does kind of suck compared to some of the really good ones, and the codec is okay, but any Real player is far worse. And...dude, they are plenty of AVI players for Macs, just as there are Linux.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">5. Dual Processors: Double the speed, double the price, same productivity. Oh look, OS X loaded 10 seconds faster! Unfortunately I can't do a dam thing in it though!

Quote:
6. Simpler to use. Well we just use the right mouse button to... wait, where's the right mouse button? Oh. That's right. Ctrl click. Cause everyone likes 2 hands to click on something. Oh, and that bar at the top? Yea, it's stuck there, and there's not a dam thing you can do to it. Not a dam thing at all. Still not satisfied? Drag something to the desktop from your CD-ROM drive, then take the cd out. Where did all the files go?!</font>

I will agree, some of that stuff is really pointless and illogical, even if it's a big deal. Although, contrary to what you want to think, you can change a lot of it. You can plug in a two button mouse if you want. I mean, you really shouldn't have to, it seems like keeping the one button mice (especially the lame ones with the button on the bottom, those are annoying), is just so they can "Think Different". But, yeah, you can change a lot of that. Should you have to? No, but PC fanatics are always going on about customizability, so...

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">7. They're colorful! Ok, as crappy a reason as it is, may I refer you to the modding contest TechTV had a while ago? Can I say MILLENIUM FALCOM PC? KTHNXBYE! Oh, you say that's not mainstream? Ok, fine, go buy yourself a alienware and get over it.</font>

...that's just a really poor arguement right there...I don't know what to say.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">8. Microsoft stole the idea of the GUI/mouse.</font>

I don't know how many Mac fanatics actually say this, but it's false. The GUI was invented by Xerox at the Palo Alto Research Center, and was first used in their Alto for office computing. More on that...

Well written? You're basing your arguments off old opinions and assumptions.

PC fanatics, wake up, the dream is over: Macs aren't terrible, and they do a good job keeping up with PCs. If you're bashing Macs, you're probably just worried that they really are so much better, and that you'll be using one eventually. Rest assured, neither are really the case.

Mac fanatics, wake up, the dream is over: Macs are not 4x faster than PCs. No, they don't suck, infact, I happen to think they're pretty awesome overall, but babbling about speed advantages that don't exist aren't going to do much for the advancement of technology and industry.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2003-12-09, 5:51 PM #42
And, Dj Yoshi, why are you saying all that? If I understand what you wrote, you clearly said you hadn't used Macs in a long time. Your information is really outdated, baised, but most of all, just uhhhhhh wrong.

Why do people need to feel the need to bash Macs so much? I think it's fear.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2003-12-09, 6:06 PM #43
...well they are pretty mean looking.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian & A Very Massassian Xmas
Corrupting the kiddies since '97
2003-12-09, 6:12 PM #44
I hadn't used macs thoroughly in a long time, but I've come across many articles and factual knowledge bases in my travelings of the web which have taught me about macs. I'll agree some of my information may be erroneus, but please, do point it out [http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif].

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There is no signature
D E A T H
2003-12-09, 6:43 PM #45
Yes i was just trying to surf the internet at school one day and had to reboot the Mac i was using 6 times in an hour, from that point on i knew i would never want a mac.

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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it</font>


---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it
---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
2003-12-09, 6:50 PM #46
Gee, sounds an awful lot like Windows, TwistedSoul.

...seriously. What a BS excuse. Your PC has crashed on you just as many times in the past, and you aren't swearing it away for eternity.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2003-12-09, 7:10 PM #47
I just like the much greater ability to customise PC's and the broader software options. There's just nothing I want to do that a PC can't do. *shrug*


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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian & A Very Massassian Xmas
Corrupting the kiddies since '97
2003-12-09, 7:12 PM #48
Not to mention I've never seen a spec of freeware for the Mac (not that it doesn't exist) and especially not the kind of stuff I use.

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There is no signature
D E A T H
2003-12-09, 7:14 PM #49
Free software for the Mac? ...Linux.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2003-12-09, 7:15 PM #50
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Emon:
......seriously. What a BS excuse. Your PC has crashed on you just as many times in the past, and you aren't swearing it away for eternity.</font>


...Well, I dont know about that... I have 3 and 4 month uptimes with my boxes . . . but then again, I dont run Windows... [http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif]


/me runs off to an active terminal, to type in 'uptime' . . . just for kicks... [http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif]

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Fight the future.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2003-12-10, 4:03 AM #51
"...so? If I recall, you're at least a somewhat avid support of Linux. Many Linux distributions release new versions every six months!"

Yes, but..

1. They're completely free.

2. They can also just integrated into the system easily. Heck, just look at Gentoo. It rarely if ever releases a whole new compile, because it just downloads from the net and integrates with the current system. I started this, but let's keep Linux out of it.

"You really should do more research, other than watching that one video with the Hispanic guy making fun of the lack of games. Seriously. Yeah, Macs aren't as upgradable, expandible or customizable as PCs, but by no means are you stuck using one single, complete system for several years."

I already mentioned just how upgradeable they are in my last post. But if you want, we can both concede the point on both sides and scratch it.

"No, actually, it isn't even that much faster. Maximum PC did a pretty good benchmark recently, AMD vs Intel vs Apple. It seemed pretty unbaised to me, they tested a fairly good variety of applications, and pretty much made their judgement from the standpoint of an average to power user. The latest and greatest 64-bit G5 dual CPU system couldn't keep up with it's P4 or Athlon 64 competators, which were single CPU and 32-bit, even running applications like Photoshop, which Apple claims to be incredibly faster than a PC. Well, at one time it was faster, but that was with the MacAddict filters. But you really have to wonder there. Anyways, the G5 was, overall, on par with it's PC competitors. Awesome for video editing? Yeah, but I would think because of stability. You're running on a BSD-based OS, with software designed for that OS. Windows can maybe come close to approaching that stability with Longhorn, but I'm still skeptical. But really, you can't be working on some movie matte, and then have the OS crash, and go tell your boss you aren't meeting production deadlines or something."

I hadn't had much evidence so I didn't want to mention it. But I agree whole-heartidly [http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif]

"Not as expensive as they used to be, but yes, a problem. They do a lot of stuff in-house, so that's going to be expensive."

Agreed.

"Well, I sort of agree. It's not as bad as it used to be, but it still seems like they just **** around and change stuff just to "Think Different.""

Agreed.

"If I recall, it's virus free because of the security model used in UNIX-like OSes. Just like how you don't see any viruses for Linux. Although, I'm a little confused as to why there's anti-virus software available for OS X. I'm not all that familiar with the OS, but I'm willing to bet it's not nearly as robust as some of its *NIX counterparts."

May I refer to your previous point? "There's a lot more software than there used to be, but the lack of it is because no one writes it."

"I don't know how many Mac fanatics actually say this, but it's false. The GUI was invented by Xerox at the Palo Alto Research Center, and was first used in their Alto for office computing."

Agreed. I was near-asleep when I wrote that, and thus I blame it like that.

To phoenix: mac-phobic eh? I looked at the price listings on the store, and I saw that their lowest priced G5 was $1800. Without a monitor. I could build a system that has more ram, more HD space, more speed, and has a monitor, for less than $1800.

Sorry to bring ya down on that Is! [http://forums.massassi.net/html/biggrin.gif]

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"The future is not determined by a throw of the dice, but is determined by the conscious decisions of you and me."
I am addicted to ellipses!!! AHHH!!! ...
2003-12-10, 4:30 AM #52
I think Mac's aren't bad, but... overrated by the fanboys.

I've used a 800MHz G4 with 768mb Ram, running OSX... and to be honest, it ran like an absolute dog. Slow, sluggish, and the OS interface drove me nuts, but that's probably because I'm use to running Windows.

I'll assume (hope) that it'll run flawlessly on a dual processor G5, and I guess I'd be happy using that. Case isn't half bad either [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]
2003-12-10, 6:36 AM #53
Macs arent that bad. Their hardware is pretty useful, and Im sure they have their place, but I hate their bleeding GUI with a flaming passion that burns with the heat of many suns. Its just . . .sickening.

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Fight the future.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
2003-12-10, 11:27 AM #54
What, the Aqua theme, the default in OS X? So change it.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2003-12-10, 1:29 PM #55
Fine, so the theme can be changed. Thats just one of my gripes. I just dont like the way the GUI works. Give me KDE, or give me death.

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Fight the future.
And when the moment is right, I'm gonna fly a kite.
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