Massassi Forums Logo

This is the static archive of the Massassi Forums. The forums are closed indefinitely. Thanks for all the memories!

You can also download Super Old Archived Message Boards from when Massassi first started.

"View" counts are as of the day the forums were archived, and will no longer increase.

☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Bullet Proof Glass?
12
Bullet Proof Glass?
2004-03-02, 5:41 PM #1
I'm not too familiar with the characteristics of bullet proof glass but i was thinking it would be good for anti theft in cars, the tradition smash windhsield and run. Also the door locks on cars are just god awful. A simple screw driver can break their mechanisms. They need dead bolts on car doors or something a little more...rigid..

------------------
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it</font>


---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it
---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
2004-03-02, 5:46 PM #2
Bullet-Proof glass is almost prohibitively expensive for the average car. I'm almost certain they have it installed in the presidential motorcade, but other than that, well, it's probably extremely difficult to get. Not only for the cost, but people would probably wonder why you think you need it.

------------------
"What sane person could live in this world, and *not* be crazy?"

Council of 14

"I am the signature virus! Copy me into your signature so that I can take over the world! Moohahahee!"
Council of 14
2004-03-02, 5:50 PM #3
Lexanwould be the ultimate to stop break ins. It's virtually impossible to crack or break (unlike Plexiglass which is easily fractured and shattered), however it is very machinable. It can be cut and peirced easily, so I'm not sure how it would repel bullets. Low powered handgun rounds would most likely bounce off harmlessly. Any armor peircing bullet would easily penetrate, so it's not good for that kind of bullet proof application, but it's perfect to stop someone from busting in.

And it's not that expensive, either. At least, the raw sheets aren't that expensive. Cutting and installing it would be very expensive I imagine. Any half skilled auto mechanic (e.g. friends or family members that fix cars) could probably do the windows for you, but windshields? Eek.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited March 02, 2004).]
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2004-03-02, 5:50 PM #4
Scenario 1:
theif walks up to unsuspecting car with normal glass and hits with baseball bat, large crash noise and grabby grab time.

Scenario 2: Theif walks up to car with bullet proof windows. Attempts to shatter window by hitting with bat but bounces off and hit him in the gut unexspectantly [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]


------------------
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it</font>


---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it
---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
2004-03-02, 5:51 PM #5
Oh and i'm pretty sure they have it in Hummers so it can't be redictuously exspensive

------------------
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it</font>


---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it
---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
2004-03-02, 5:54 PM #6
Hummers are ridiculously expensive.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2004-03-02, 5:54 PM #7
Yea lexan is more what i was thinking of, i;m not too worried about myself, but i read the forums on elitecaraduio.com and people frequently have their $5-6000 sound systems stolel. I figure someday it would be worth that extra money to prevent such stuff from happening [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

------------------
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it</font>


---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it
---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
2004-03-02, 6:34 PM #8
Yeah, the main reason they don't have it is because if you get in a car accident, your door can't open and the car is on fire, you smash the glass to get out. Kind of hard when you have bullet proof glass.

------------------
I can't think of anything to put here right now.
I can't think of anything to put here right now.
2004-03-02, 6:39 PM #9
Yeah. Sometimes smashing the windows is necessary to save your life. I'm sure it can be done, but it would be expensive to do.

------------------
I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
Pissed Off?
2004-03-02, 7:35 PM #10
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Emon:
Lexanwould be the ultimate to stop break ins. It's virtually impossible to crack or break (unlike Plexiglass which is easily fractured and shattered), however it is very machinable. It can be cut and peirced easily, so I'm not sure how it would repel bullets. Low powered handgun rounds would most likely bounce off harmlessly. Any armor peircing bullet would easily penetrate, so it's not good for that kind of bullet proof application, but it's perfect to stop someone from busting in.

And it's not that expensive, either. At least, the raw sheets aren't that expensive. Cutting and installing it would be very expensive I imagine. Any half skilled auto mechanic (e.g. friends or family members that fix cars) could probably do the windows for you, but windshields? Eek.

</font>


The problem with lexan is that it's very flimsy. It's considered a "safty glass", right along with Plexiglass and Laminated. The general flimsiness is what allows the Lexan to really do it's job (I've seen a video clip of a guy that threw a brick at a store window that was indeed Lexan, it bounced back and hit the guy in the chest). The problem, is that anyone with half a brain would realize that all you would have to do is apply enough pressure in the center and you can fairly easily pop it out.

While I was working for a glass company, the few Bullet Proof pieces of glass we had come in to be installed consisted of Lexan laminated to both side of 1" Plate glass.

------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited March 02, 2004).]
Math is infinitely finite, while the universe is finitely infinite. PI = QED
2004-03-02, 7:48 PM #11
Car windshields generally use safety glass so it doesn't shatter explosively in an accident. The glass is laminated so it can be safely peeled away. Bulletproof glass wouldn't do anything more against someone trying to break through your windshield with a baseball bat. And the bulletproof glass isn't going to help you - since, you know, the newfangled plastic cars aren't going to stop a bullet. Ever.
2004-03-02, 9:02 PM #12
Problem: Car gets broken into.

Solution: Don't live in the friggin' ghetto.
2004-03-02, 9:30 PM #13
Friend14, that's why you'd just have to make it thick enough. If it was secured properly around the edges, it wouldn't come out. Unfortunately, most cars won't have deep enough insets to get the job done.

And Jon`C, how would bulletproof glass not stop someone from getting in? If you had real bulletproof glass, like big thick glass designed to stop bullets, I really don't see a baseball bat going through that.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2004-03-02, 10:04 PM #14
"Bulletproof" glass is VERY heavy. It also deteriorates and eventually breaks down from sunlight, which means that it needs to be replaced eventually.
If it breaks, you get to keep both pieces.
2004-03-02, 11:00 PM #15
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jon`C:
Car windshields generally use safety glass so it doesn't shatter explosively in an accident. The glass is laminated so it can be safely peeled away. Bulletproof glass wouldn't do anything more against someone trying to break through your windshield with a baseball bat. And the bulletproof glass isn't going to help you - since, you know, the newfangled plastic cars aren't going to stop a bullet. Ever.</font>


Any car with bulletproof glass is going to be fully armored. At least I assume it would be.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Checksum:
Problem: Car gets broken into.

Solution: Don't live in the friggin' ghetto.</font>


Because only cars in ghettos are broken into. It never happens anywhere else [http://forums.massassi.net/html/rolleyes.gif]

------------------
I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
Pissed Off?
2004-03-02, 11:33 PM #16
Or the car owners who live in the ghetto have much of a choice as to where they live...

------------------
Roach - Steal acceptance, lend denial.

0 of 14.
omnia mea mecum porto
2004-03-03, 2:08 AM #17
Er, he's kind of right, Avenger. Crime rates are higher, theft is higher. It does happen in many other places, but not nearly as often.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2004-03-03, 2:55 AM #18
Solution: Buy a car alarm [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]

------------------
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
2004-03-03, 4:02 AM #19
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Emon:
Any armor peircing bullet would easily penetrate, so it's not good for that kind of bullet proof application, but it's perfect to stop someone from busting in.</font>


What kind of neighborhood do you live in where you are caused to consider installing windows protective against armor-piercing bullets?

------------------
"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2004-03-03, 4:22 AM #20
Jon'C is right. Cars are specially designed to be safe. When you start giving a car major modifications like armor and bulletproof glass, they become less safe, and a lot more expensive. I dont have the link on me, but I remember seeing the website for a company that specialized in armoring cars and installing bulletproof glass... the cost was something like 100 grand per car.

------------------
And everything under the sun is in tune, but the sun is eclipsed by the moon...

DSettahr's Homepage
2004-03-03, 4:26 AM #21
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Wolfy:
What kind of neighborhood do you live in where you are caused to consider installing windows protective against armor-piercing bullets?

</font>


That made me laugh out loud. Thanks, Wolfy. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]
2004-03-03, 4:34 AM #22
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Daeron the Nerfherder:
It also deteriorates and eventually breaks down from sunlight</font>


Why? I always thought it was thicker-than-normal glass, not some special kind.

------------------
Most people regard me as the dark and immoral side of Massassi. At least I'm getting what I want out of life.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited March 03, 2004).]
2004-03-03, 5:10 AM #23
Because... *breathe in*

Clear bullet proof glass panels in general are alternating "sandwich" layers of thick glass and polycarbonate (a very hard see-through form of plastic that for example a CD, riot-shields or special sports sunglasses use. You need a diamond coated tool to cut polycarbonate). Polycarbonate tends to turn yellow and weaken after very prolonged sunlight exposure (I'm talking about months and months here though). I don't know if the same applies to darkened UV protected tinted windows though...
*Breathe out*

Ask your local chemistry teacher or specialised automotive engineer for more details [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]

------------------
Lost in a flood, run red with your blood

I've just locked an open door. Strange, yet symbolically compelling!

[This message has been edited by Daeron the Nerfherder (edited March 03, 2004).]
If it breaks, you get to keep both pieces.
2004-03-03, 5:27 AM #24
Wait, if CD are polycarbonate plastic, why do they spark in the microwave? O_o

------------------
If you think it's a good idea to play russian roulette with an automatic handgun, you deserve what you get.
2004-03-03, 5:35 AM #25
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shazaam:
Wait, if CD are polycarbonate plastic, why do they spark in the microwave? O_o

</font>

furthermore, if polycarbonate can only be cut with a diamond, then why are Cds scratched so easily? Is it the grade of the material used?

------------------
Most people regard me as the dark and immoral side of Massassi. At least I'm getting what I want out of life.
2004-03-03, 5:51 AM #26
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shazaam:
Wait, if CD are polycarbonate plastic, why do they spark in the microwave? O_o</font>


The actual data is recorded on a very thin layer aluminium, which might well be the same layer that makes CDs reflective, I dont know. Anyways, that's what's sparking.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pagewizard_YKS:
furthermore, if polycarbonate can only be cut with a diamond, then why are Cds scratched so easily? Is it the grade of the material used?</font>


Another educated guess, but yeah I reckon you're right, considering the price difference between a scratch-resistant pair of sunglases and a blank CD-R.

------------------
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

[This message has been edited by Spork (edited March 03, 2004).]
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
2004-03-03, 8:50 AM #27
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Spork:
Solution: Buy a car alarm [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]

</font>


Usually car alarms do more hard to you than good [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]

------------------
Madquack and Firbnic have a signature.
Remnant Temple Part A beta test.
Light And Darkness
I was just petting the bunny, and it went into the soup can, and part of my hand went with it. - Red vs Blue
2004-03-03, 9:21 AM #28
Actually, bullet-proof armored cars have been good business... They tend to sell better to people like CEOs, who often live in fear of being attacked. Such cars come with thick, "bullet-proof" windows, and thick armor instead of a normal body, incorporating layers of metal and ceramic to easily stop hangun rounds, and most rifle rounds.

------------------
Nes digs around in the trash can.
Nes finds a hamburger!
Nes puts the hamburger in his backpack.
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you...
2004-03-03, 12:06 PM #29
Jesus. Can you say "paranoid"?
DO NOT WANT.
2004-03-03, 12:08 PM #30
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zell:
Jesus. Can you say "paranoid"?</font>


"Woody Allen."

------------------
"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2004-03-03, 12:21 PM #31
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">furthermore, if polycarbonate can only be cut with a diamond, then why are Cds scratched so easily? Is it the grade of the material used?</font>


Polycarbonates scratch easily. NASCAR cars have Lexan windshields, but they have to be coated with a removable film to protect the Lexan from scratches and other damage.
2004-03-03, 12:49 PM #32
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Wolfy:
"Woody Allen."</font>

Excelent pronouncuation.

------------------
Nes digs around in the trash can.
Nes finds a hamburger!
Nes puts the hamburger in his backpack.
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you...
2004-03-03, 12:50 PM #33
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Argath:
Polycarbonates scratch easily. NASCAR cars have Lexan windshields, but they have to be coated with a removable film to protect the Lexan from scratches and other damage.</font>


Note that the NASCAR cars/trucks use two metal pieces on either side of the lexan to restrict it's "flimsines." They are also securly fastened with "ties" around the edges.

Though, i should mention that Lexan doesn't scratch easily (as previously stated above). Though it is generally cut to size using a special straight edge (it takes about 10 passes or so to cut 16th inch lexan enough to make a smooth break).



------------------
Try not, do; or do not.
Math is infinitely finite, while the universe is finitely infinite. PI = QED
2004-03-03, 1:22 PM #34
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Emon:
And Jon`C, how would bulletproof glass not stop someone from getting in? If you had real bulletproof glass, like big thick glass designed to stop bullets, I really don't see a baseball bat going through that.</font>


Yeah, and? I said it doesn't do anything more than normal safety glass, which would be true.... you can't shatter safety glass. You have to cut through it and then peel it back, which is a fairly intensive process. Windshields are designed to stay in one piece, and I'm pretty sure new[er] cars use safety glass for all windows.
2004-03-03, 1:32 PM #35
Wait, maybe i'm missing the point here but would it be a lot simpler not to leave stuff in your car? [http://forums.massassi.net/html/confused.gif]

------------------
WARNING: THIS POST MAY CONTAIN TRACES OF PEANUT!!!
---@%

[This message has been edited by TheJkWhoSaysNi (edited March 03, 2004).]
TheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWho
SaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTh
eJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSa
ysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJ
kWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSays
NiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkW
2004-03-03, 1:35 PM #36
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TheJkWhoSaysNi:
Wait, maybe i'm missing the point here but would it be a lot simpler not to leave stuff in your car? [http://forums.massassi.net/html/confused.gif]</font>

Would you care to remove your $3000US, 1000-watt+ sound system every time you parked the car? [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]


------------------
Nes digs around in the trash can.
Nes finds a hamburger!
Nes puts the hamburger in his backpack.

[This message has been edited by nottheking (edited March 03, 2004).]
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you...
2004-03-03, 2:01 PM #37
yea this is way to protect very exspenive car investments, we're not jsut talking little best buy speakers [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

------------------
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it</font>


---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it
---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
2004-03-03, 2:10 PM #38
Are you saying you can't bash a windshield in with a baseball bat? I'm pretty sure you can, with enough effort. But it's so much easier to break windows.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2004-03-03, 2:13 PM #39
If the windshield is saftey glass, and you have an ordinary baseball bat (I'm not sure if a softball bat would be any different), you WILL NOT be able to break the glass. even a sledgehammer isn't enough... However, they are easily broken by a lot of force pushed onto one small spot. I don't remember what the device is called, but it is made so that a weak person can break through car windows in an emergency. Of course, a gun provides sufficient concentrated force...

------------------
Nes digs around in the trash can.
Nes finds a hamburger!
Nes puts the hamburger in his backpack.
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you...
2004-03-03, 2:31 PM #40
YOu can crack windshields with a bat, but it takes repeated punding. The window glass will break, but the plastic bewteen the two layers of glass hold it together a little bit..

------------------
I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
Pissed Off?
12

↑ Up to the top!