DirectX is a Windows feature...

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The future is here, and all bets are off.

Sorry Brian, my mistake, I coulda sworn nVidia was older. Nevermind that post then. All I know is that nVidia is better than ATi in OGL by far, which is partially why Doom 3 ran better on nVidia cards than ATi cards. Can't wait to be able to play that puppy...mmm...lighting...

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Yep, and Half Life 2 will definatly not have native linux support. Whereas Doom III, an uber-openGL Geforce * game, will have native support.

[This message has been edited by Mystic0 (edited March 06, 2004).]

On another note, I've been playing UT2003 at 320x240 or whatever with everything on minimum with my TNT2. Two things:

1. My eyes are ready to bleed

2. All those pixels are making me nostolgic about Dark Forces I...

Yah, I got a steady 30 FPS on the Al--I mean I heard my FRIEND got a steady 30 FPS on the alpha with a Ti4400 <_<. But yah, Carmack is god--he uses OpenGL, which while not as sexy, is more efficient than DirectX, IMO.

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I disagree. OpenGL is more sexy than DirectX. Far more.


But yeah, Carmack is a god...

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The future is here, and all bets are off.

I personally could care less which is technically better, but Far Cry, STALKER and Doom 3 all look sexy beyond description so I'd say the competition level is pretty even.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1 & 2 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Can you explain your opinion please?

I like openGL simply because it's an open standard and thus, software written to use openGL can generally be more easily adapted to run natively on linux.

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EvilMagic.net: Brian's Web Log

sh gbk.sh
windows {directx, opengl}
linux {opengl}
start linux
directx not found
suxor
omg why not use opengl
opengl now == ro><or

(just joking around... )

[This message has been edited by Mystic0 (edited March 06, 2004).]

Linux + OpenGL + id + Carmack + Geforce FX 6xxx + Doom III engine == ro><or stable tech.

But that's part of the problem. OpenGL is an open standard - there's no one voice of reason to make sure it keeps progressing. OpenGL has been tied up for ages in totally retarded NVIDIA/ATI squabbling.

All of John Carmack's engines have special codepaths for each architecture. It improves performance and actually lets the engine run on both cards, but the point is that you should not have to do it. In DirectX Microsoft forces compliance. If it works on one card, it should work on all of them. The same can't always be said of OpenGL.

Exactly. Nvidia supports the better games, like Tron 2.0 and America's Army. I'm not saying that they're exclusive; just that they were made with that particular brand in mind.

But I wonder; are these new cards going to support the new DDR2 RAM I've been hearing about?

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I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect.

Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive.

[url="mailto:Bruintone@netscape.net"]mailto:Bruintone@netscape.net[/url]Bruintone@netscape.net</A>
Yahoo! Name : jedibruintone77

Snake-Eyes: nVidia (not sure about ATi) will be using GDDR3. Cooler and much faster then GDDR2.

And for the Doom III and nVidia thing... It really only runs a bit faster because Carmark had to lower the percision of the shaders just to get decent performance. ATi on the other hand, can run the default codepath A LOT faster then any GeForceFX out. This may change when NV40 comes out, but some of you are seemingly forgeting about ATi's next part, the RV420...

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[="They say music can alter moods and talk to you, but can it load a gun for you and cock it too?" - Eminem=]

Massassian since: March 12, 2001

On a somewhat related note:

When I get my GeforceFX 6xxx (standard non-ultra), should I:

• buy a stock version using 1 slot,
• buy a souped up version using 2 slots,
• or buy a stock version and install my own heatsink.

I have a hugh case which is already loud with 7 fans, so space and noise are not problems. I wouldn't mind overclocking it either, unless there is a good chance I will bust the thing.

People are spreading rumors that Doom III will be bundled with NV40. Why don't you take a look at this pic released by Nvidia for their new marketing thingy:


[This message has been edited by Mystic0 (edited March 07, 2004).]

http://ati.com/support/drivers/winxp/tvwonder-xp.html?type=xp&prodType=mm&prod=aiwWINXPdriver&submit.x=5&submit.y=8&submit=GO%21

And Jon, Carmack said the same thing about Direct3D, except he pointed out that one body (especially Microsoft) in control of a standard is probably not a good thing. Things were supposed to get in order with the release of OpenGL 2.0, whenever that. Hopefully it'll iron out the problems.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

GL2 has been on the rocks for... what, years now?

Yeah well...

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Sol, thanks for the heads-up on the video card RAM. Now, I'm truely happy...

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I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect.

Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive.

[url="mailto:Bruintone@netscape.net"]mailto:Bruintone@netscape.net[/url]Bruintone@netscape.net</A>
Yahoo! Name : jedibruintone77

/me starts eating hat.

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The future is here, and all bets are off.

Get the one that takes up 2 slots. Always good to get the heat out of the case....

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The future is here, and all bets are off.

Oh, and BTW, GBK...

Radeon drivers are NOT bad. My biggest problem was AGPGART, not the ATI drivers. All I had to do was use the external module, like everyone recommended. Now NVIDIA drivers can go burn in hell. I tried installing those on slackware, and I swear it took me 3 FULL MONTHS to finally get them running, and they still weren't as fast as in windows. Also, the windows nvidia drivers suck completely, and they never, ever fix bugs. Hell, at least ATI tells you what bugs they know of and what bugs they are fixing.

And I've never had a problem with my TV Wonder VE. Runs flawlessly in Linux without any special drivers, and windows runs it fine with the drivers it came with. I'm beginning to think the problems you have with ATI are more based on YOUR SYSTEM than ATI's cards.

And another rant:
If you think Nvidia has good drivers, explain to me why they haven't released a decent Nforce2 chipset driver pack for linux since it came out? I still can't use the ethernet port on it, and many, many people have my same problem.

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"The future is not determined by a throw of the dice, but is determined by the conscious decisions of you and me."
I am addicted to ellipses!!! AHHH!!! ...

I've never had a problem getting the NVIDIA Linux drivers to work. I have, however, had problems getting the ATI Linux drivers to work.

That's strange, they worked for me on the first try... I'm on Slackware as well.

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I check my e-mail

After seeing the stuff that my compatriots in CS 597 (intro to game programming) created with OpenGL, I really want to take that class now. Unfortunately they're not offering it next semester.

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My prediction is that a few years from now, we won't have to worry about which drivers work better. Simply because Linux has surpassed mac on the desktop and is still growing quickly. Three years from now both ati and nvidia will have their acts together regarding drivers for linux.

I wish everyone chose beos instead of linux

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EvilMagic.net: Brian's Web Log

People people PEOPLE. I dunno why people insist that nVidia is better than ATi when it's benchmark proven that even the 9800 Pro > 5950 Ultra. That is on regular games. The only game that's got the 5950 Ultra in mind is Doom 3, all the other ones that have the nVidia sticker have it because ATi screwed them over or they get paid to (ie. UT2k3/4 which is proven to work better on ATi's cards). It's mindboggling how much some people succumb to marketing ploys like that. Note, I'm not singling anyone out in this post, but it's fairly easy to tell who I'm talking to.

Oh and Mystic0, I dunno if nVidia's keeping the FX for their new line. Hopefully they move on and learn from their mistakes.

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I have a bold prediction regarding Linux: It's probably never going to make a huge appearance on the desktop market.

I'll put it in another way: Everybody owns a car, right? How many people actually care or understand what's under the hood? They want their computer to work right and don't want to bother mucking around with config files just to get everything working the way they need it.

Linux has a very, very long way to go on the user end before companies are comfortable with deploying it on home computers. Add installers (as in, not tar), make everything autodetect and autoconfigure hardware (we have plug and play for a reason), have everything configurable from GUI control panels, and make X part of the kernel or a module.

I know suggesting the Windowsification of Linux will probably enrage people like GBK, but it's a reality: The average computer user is not going to use Linux, ever. They'll buy iMacs before they buy a Linux machine. I'm an above average computer user, and I'm still uncomfortable with Linux - so much so that I'm willing to sacrifice all of the extra control I get (but can't take advantage of).

The way it is, running Linux on a desktop machine is like using a Mack truck for your daily commute.

this is like Glide vs OpenGL all over again...

3DFX FOREVER!

Have you ever used SuSE or Knoppix? They are pretty much Windows in a linux box. They have GUI's for all that stuff. Heck, Knoppix has a dam near perfect hardware detection system. The only thing that needs to be buffed up with linux is compatibility out of the box. Lots of the more odd hardware, and stuff that isn't everyday use, like digital cameras, scanners, and 3D acceleration just needs more support straight from installation. The problem now is that you can get all that stuff to work, but it requires a little tweaking. Given some time, I think Linux could accomplish this. Compatibility is coming a long way.

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"The future is not determined by a throw of the dice, but is determined by the conscious decisions of you and me."
I am addicted to ellipses!!! AHHH!!! ...

Knoppix is neat, but it was a might bit confusing. I couldn't get the networking to work right and some of my USB stuff straight up didn't work at all.

In the end I took the cd out and put it in best buy computers for kicks and giggles, never to see it again.

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Ω of 14

Have you ever installed Openoffice.org? The installer is just like Windows. I'm not saying I like it, but it is possible. One of the main things that Linux needs for that level of polish is commercial companies to back them up like Ximian, IBM, or Novell.

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I check my e-mail

I really like BeOS, I didn't realise that other people actually used it... It was really cool until the company flopped


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When guitars are outlawed, only outlaws will have guitars.

Actually, some IBM comps ship with Linux I believe.


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