Yes, I am complaining, and I am admittedly doing so in a less than coherent fashion, but complain I must.

Why is it that these zombies of the spoonfed television 'culture' go about regurgitating lines etched into their subconscious to one another, recounting in minute and fastidious detail specific scenes that all members of the conversation already have memorised?

Then, in a manner that very much parallels the Allegory of the Cave, they bestow social honours upon one another for better mastery over identifying these pointless and utterly meaningless shadows, and find it absurd that anyone might not have heard about specific programs or scenes that course through what constitutes as their minds.

Furthermore, they find it entirely unimaginable (which is understandable, as many of the more severely afflicted have lost said imaginations and with it the belief in the capacity for original thought) that there might exist those who do not indulge in their brainwashing. Many a time, I have made some joke or witticism only to hear 'what's that from?' as the laughter subsides. What's it from? It's from my mind.

Is that truly so hard to believe? Man does have the capacity for free thought, but to unlock this capacity once more, he must free himself from the bonds of external influence, for his intellectual produce is otherwise merely a synthesis of that which has come before it.

[This message has been edited by Lord_Grismath (edited December 10, 2003).]

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
I know you are smart and all, but could you please dumb down you writing for the dumb people...me at least, so we can participate in your thread?

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

OMG THIS BELONGS IN TEH RELIGIOUS FOREM!

((I always wanted to do that))

On topic... when I saw the topic I was thinking more of it being a rant against narcissitic philosophy.


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All you need is love.

I think he is talking about how television culture, a big aspect of our society, binds so closely down to the dialoge we speak.

"Why is it that these zombies of the spoonfed television 'culture' go about regurgitating lines etched into their subconscious to one another, recounting in minute and fastidious detail specific scenes that all members of the conversation already have memorised?"

Because our society so intergrated with television. It seems we are controlled by it because TV shapes society in many ways.

"Is that truly so hard to believe? Man does have the capacity for free thought, but to unlock this capacity once more, he must free himself from the bonds of external influence, for his intellectual produce is otherwise merely a synthesis of that which has come before it."

So are you saying the mind should be pure and free from society's influence?

[actually I'm confused]

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)
---@%


[This message has been edited by Echoman (edited December 10, 2003).]

I don't really see the harm in being influenced by everything around us....though I do agree with you when it comes to people getting all superior when someone doesn't recognise a particular quote.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian & A Very Massassian Xmas
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

I'm just slightly confused about one thing. Am I one of those people you are ranting about? I know many quotes from my favorite shows and movies (The Simpsons, Star Wars, etc).

I think you're ranting to the wrong crowd. I guarantee at least half of the people here know the response to "he doesn't like you."

Of course, I'm probably missing the point.

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My Daily Ramblings
"This world is made of love and peace!"
"Let's live today, let's live tomorrow, and let's live the day after that, even if it means living in eternal pain."
- Vash the Stampede

That defeats the purpose of... oh whatever.

Vernacular mode initiated.

Why is it that these zombies of the spoonfed television 'culture' go about regurgitating lines etched into their subconscious to one another, recounting in minute and fastidious detail specific scenes that all members of the conversation already have memorised?

Why do people go around these days reciting lines and describing scenes from TV shows, movies, etc., that everyone in the conversation have all already memorised?

Then, in a manner that very much parallels the Allegory of the Cave, they bestow social honours upon one another for better mastery over identifying these pointless and utterly meaningless shadows, and find it absurd that anyone might not have heard about specific programs or scenes that course through what constitutes as their minds.

They consider one another somehow clever for being able to recite these things.

Furthermore, they find it entirely unimaginable (which is understandable, as many of the more severely afflicted have lost said imaginations and with it the belief in the capacity for original thought) that there might exist those who do not indulge in their brainwashing. Many a time, I have made some joke or witticism only to hear 'what's that from?' as the laughter subsides. What's it from? It's from my mind.

The fact that some don't watch TV is somehow impossible to these people. They all seem to have lost the abiltiy to make new ideas, and I have often cracked a joke just to hear 'what's that from?' in response. It wasn't on the Simpson's last night, it isn't in the Family Guy anthology, or the Futurama boxed set. It isn't from anything but my mind.

Is that truly so hard to believe? Man does have the capacity for free thought, but to unlock this capacity once more, he must free himself from the bonds of external influence, for his intellectual produce is otherwise merely a synthesis of that which has come before it.

Is that so hard to believe? People seriously need to break away from this brainwashing and think for themselves. This isn't non-conformity, or even 'individualism' as a movement. It's being an autonomous unit.

...and there I go again. Yes, I could have written in that way in the first place, but my original rant was straight from the brain to the keyboard. That's how I think. ;p

[This message has been edited by Lord_Grismath (edited December 10, 2003).]

Wow... Somebody likes thesaurus.com

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

Certainly. This does not necessarily remove you from society itself. You can think for yourself and still interact in the societal construct. (think Nietzche ;])







Yes, Chaz, you probably are. And yes, I probably am. I don't mean any offense by it, this is not suppsoed to be some scathing insult to a majority of the MASSASSIMEN community. And unfortunately, I haven't the slightest clue as to what that response is.

And for those of you who think 'you're missing the point', you might be, but technically aren't as there's no real point to miss. I'm not preaching the next social revolution, just ranting about the lack of one.

But is TV's influence on the people OK? I assume that the fact that a machine can shape society in such ways is only natural but not exactly pleasing (like the habit of reciting TV lines)

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)
---@%

[This message has been edited by Echoman (edited December 10, 2003).]

An unnatural influence is natural?

Comaraderie is based on shared experience. When people quote scenes from the Simpsons, they're referring to a common memory. It's like they were watching it together, except more pathetic. When you don't acknowledge these memories, you alienate yourself from the group: you indicate that you lack the common ground that they're relating upon.

Well, I didn't say TV was unnatual or not. It is only an invention that uses small dots of bright light to portray an image. But the "culture" created around it affects society like anything else would. People have been influenced by it in different ways. It is "grasping" people's minds in these times.

I need to sleep. I can't think straight.

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)
---@%

[This message has been edited by Echoman (edited December 10, 2003).]

hehe, I get it now.

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

It's fine to be influenced by society, you just have to learn to sift the dirt from the gold.

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If there is a ((S)) in front of my post, it means I'm not being 100% serious.

Truly, the problem isn't a lack of free thought (or 'free thought' being crushed our 'television culture') but the vile inability of the masses to distinguish between those two forces. (ex. someone reciting line from said television show as a pathetic replacement for any individual thought.)

Unfortunetly, this behavior is becoming increasingly common and, thus, my hope in humanity is lost.

Television was simply the trigger- We are the galvanizing force behind our own intellectual vapidity.

It's hardly a product of modern culture. The Romans did exactly the same thing with the writings of Vergil and of other famous authors and poets.

I'm sure it's been prevalent in most other cultures, as well.

I've noticed that the TV thing seems to be particular to america. Over here, you get a bunch of small groups of people who talk differently. Just to give you an example; during my sec3 year of high school I was in a school on the other side of the island. I understood everyone pretty well. Then I moved to a new school the next year, and couldn't understand any of the expressions people used (and they didn't understand mine either). It took me short while to get used to them. And then when I go into the US everyone talks like on TV! O_o

So it seems that when people aren't copying everything they hear on TV, they just do it with eachother instead, and on a smaller scale.

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

But influences are eternal, and will affect certain sub-groups (or the majority of the group as a whole) of our culture. Naturally, we will disagree with some of them. I have a particular problem with Monty Python nerds; the next person who walks by giggling about "Biggus Dickus" or quoting 100% correct the 'Holy Hand Grenade' scene will receive a nuclear blast to the face.

I guess my point is, although TV has affected the group as a whole, removing the public appearance of mass individuality, it still exists. I too would like to be allowed to dress the way I want to, say whatever and just get away with it, and to a degree, I do. But to do anything else is stretching off into fairly extreme non-conformism, which I warn you has some fairly severe repercussions. Should you do it though, let me be the first to congratulate you.

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"In the depths of my darkest winter, I found there existed in me an invincible summer..."

-Albert Camus

Heh, I'll just be repeating what everyone else said. But the reason people regurgitate various quotes can also be to "ping" anyone that has similar interests to them. As said before, it is to have a feeling of belonging. "Me and people X think watch the same show, therefore we think the same, therefore I'm part of group X"

Every culture has that problem. If it isn't TV it is relegion, or other mass activites...

As for "freeing from the bonds of external infulence", many love the way things are. They love being told how to think, work live. I almost think it is an extension of lazyness. "I don't have to think about what is quality, it has been dicided for me". You take this away from people and there will be mass suicides from "OMG WHAT COLOR SOCKS WILL I WEAR"

People like their simple cave. They don't care what is producing the shadows, they just want to take what they see at face value, and they may function better that way, they love their cave and will defend it to the death. Many people just can't handle free will, maybe they need to be dragged along, otherwise left to their own devices, they will just wind up lost.

My $.02

I wish there were more topics like these...

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http://www.4guys-1dragoon.cjb.net -No porn. We promise*

You sunk my battleship

You will respect my authoritah!

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If there is a ((S)) in front of my post, it means I'm not being 100% serious.

I dislike American TV, some of it is good to watch every once in a while for me, but if I say, watch a Sitcom (of crap) because I'm bored, i'll more likely just go online and sit in #massassi for the next 5 hours not typing for perhaps an hour at a time, and Non-American TV > American TV for me, too much control over them by corporations

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" You killed me. That wasn't very nice."
Noble Gases

Um, what's so funny about.. 'Biggus Dickus' ?

*flees*

Actually i frequently when i'm just rambling or whatever, get people asking omq liek that's so funnay what r it teh from ? And i tell them i just made it up.

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
Applecore scowled. "What does that mean, 'real'? Amn't I real, you? If you cut me, do I not bleed? If you piss me off, will I not kick you up the arse?" -War of the Flowers
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

I agree with Itcus about the comradarie. I've had such conversations about TV shows and movies, but I've also done with things I have experienced on backpacking trips, soccer games, and other such things. I'll talk about thigns that I did with the people who were with me at the time even though they were there as well and had the same experience. It's all about the common memory.

Now, do I think TV or movies are the best was to accomplish this sort of commradarie? No. There are different ways to do it, but everyone is different

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

Case in Point:

A friend loaned me the Lucifer Principle one day, and as I went to put it away, someone else asked me, "When are you going to have the to read that?"

"Tell me, how much time do you spend watching TV every night?"

"Two, three hours."

"There you go."

"You mean you don't watch TV?!" He and a few others replied with incredulity. I calmed them with lies that I did and went on my way.



Very deep, Kieran.



Agreed, Yossarian. I just don't understand why there are so many people out there who say "Yeah... we're all screwed," and keep on going the way they were. There must be something that can be done about this. </youthful idealism>



The difference is in the degree of exposure. I can't imagine a majority of the Romans sitting through several shows in the amphitheater every day.



They don't watch the same show because they think the same these days, they think the same because they watch the same show.



But the herd does not necessarily have to be so! If you want to be utilitarian about it, fine, but I think that they would be far happier if they did indeed free their minds.

Good stuff.

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Archimedes: Pseudo-intellectual since 1986
www.retronetworks.com

Gris: I'm not Kieran.

Frankly, pronouncements about the stupidity of the herd seem painfully sophomoric. I ranted brilliant monologues on that very subject during my entire freshman year (avant-garde as always), but failed until fairly recently to recognize the obvious truth: everyone is infinitely more complex and more of individuals than you expect them to be. Even those who seem to be trying to surpress it.

Egotism will get you nowhere.

But what is a free mind? Free from society's influence?

I was thinking what if a man somehow was born on isolated island without any influence of our society (like TV, internet, so on)? He has only nature to interact with. But is the natural environment around him is what humans today should experience more?

Nature has provided society with many aspects. But now our society has invented things such as television. Have we pushed aside "nature" to engage in such things as TV?


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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)
---@%

Hmm, I don't know. I take you are saying that people don't choose what they watch. I don't fully agree with that, I think most of these rather vapid shows are what people want.

I think people do decide what is on TV, otherwise what, there is some big brother choosing what we watch? While that is true to some extent (We can't put on exactly what we want), people do know what they don't like, because for whatever reason it doesn't go with their thinking.

Example: Try pushing "The Bible Burner" a reality TV show were Atheists go to churches and put darwin stickers on every car. How well do you think that would do in the bible belt? (Uses just as an example, sorry I had to put religion in there, but it's all I have now)



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http://www.4guys-1dragoon.cjb.net -No porn. We promise*

Its takes more than big words to make someone smart.

I used to think I was BRILLIANT. I'd sit around, have all these thoughts... I was sure I was a genius, destined to become the philosopher for the 21st century. What did I find? I thought that because I thought that the human world was a replication of the natural world that I was a genius. What happened? Boom. I learn about Adam Smith. I think that the world should work like an ant hill, everyone working for the common good. What happens? Boom. I learn about Plato. I thought that society enslaves humans. What happens? Boom. Rousseau.

So now here you are, complaining about people "regurgitating lines etched into their subconscious"... You go on and on, "people should think for themselves"... yada yada... Yet you completely overlook the fact that you mention the "Allegory of the Cave"? Did you think of that yourself? Anyone can look in a book of Greek philosophy and learn about it. Guess what: anyone can go to the History Channel and learn about that. Yet what, just because it's Greek and not a movie, you have the right to quote it? The theory of the cave has already been said, why don't you exercise the said 'free thought' which you preach, and think of something yourself? I'll tell you why: there is absolutely no reason to... Just like someone doesn't always have to be witty off the top of their head. You make it seem like its neccessary, but in reality, its not like everyone has the capacity to say something off the top of their head that will make people laugh. If something is funny, and you know other people think its funny, its wrong for them to say it?

In reality, what your saying is not at all 'new' or 'witty'. People have always thought that TV is mindwashing. Go ahead, cover it up with some big words, throw in some Greek philosophy, and what? Suddenly people on an internet forum are confused because you have a thesaurus.

By the way, you used "narcissism" improperly.

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To myself I surrender to the one I'll never please.
But I still try to run on.
You know I still try to run on. But it's all or none.

Eddie Vedder

I'd just like to add I feel the same way. Its impossible to fully understand someone. Its impossible to even fully understand yourself. I'm glad someone pointed it out, because in reality, you shouldn't be able to make assumptions one decisions that people will make, because the thing that makes human beings human is spontanuity. Never try to characterize someone, because they have infinite potential to change.


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To myself I surrender to the one I'll never please.
But I still try to run on.
You know I still try to run on. But it's all or none.

Eddie Vedder

Eversor, Ictus...I don't understand your motivations. You have, by denouncing Grismath's supposedly pretentious behaviour, only lifted yourselves onto higher pedestals.



What I don't particularly fathom is why you'd target such an obviously well-intentioned individual...I mean, supposing you're correct, and his argument is tired, cliched, and generally uninspired, don't you think he should receive merit for trying?



Well, maybe so, but I don't think your arguments are exactly leading us to higher thoughts either...

Anyone read the book Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury? In the book, it shows a world where the government censors everything and basically brainwashes the nation into not thinking. Books are banned, because they make the people think for themselves, so they are replaced by televisions. The problem with televisions is that there is no time to digest the information, to think about what is happening. Everything goes by so fast... you can never think for yourselves.

Real revolution starts at learning. If you're not angry, then you are not paying attention.

I don't watch TV. I really don't... I watch a liberally biased channel 5 news several times a week w/ tom brokaw...

the thing is, i can identify the bias and not shape MYSELF to what i am told. It merely adds to my store of data.

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saberopus
oh yeh wlel i jsut gots finesht wiht my morrwoind mod for teh JO An it takes up teh 900 gigabiets of spaec but i wlil not sowh yuo gyz teh scrnshoots becasue we dunat kare wut u gyz tihnk ne1 no wear i kan get ti hostad 4 dounlowd!!!!11!111 --Checksum

Maybe they just like to hang out and bask in the frienship.

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Shut up. I'm GOING to do this whether you like it or not.

He does seem like a nice guy; I'm not trying to take that away from him. Just take a step back, and look at the big picture: he started a thread about 'free-thinking'. I was merely pointing out, and now admit to my overly-aggressive nature, that there is nothing new or fresh in what he has to say, and that he's disguised it with big words. Do I think he deserves merit? I'll be honest, not really. If I rewrote the "I have a dream speech", would I deserve credit if I merely went through it and replaced a handful of the words with synonyms?

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To myself I surrender to the one I'll never please.
But I still try to run on.
You know I still try to run on. But it's all or none.

Eddie Vedder

Gris, your missing one very important point: Everything that can be said, has already been said. Therefore, no matter what you say, you werent the first to say it....

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Fight the future.

Gigli did not infact suck *** .

See, it only took six words to wreck that theory.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian & A Very Massassian Xmas
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Yes, you're both right, so far there have been no new ideas brought to this discussion, perhaps ironically because it is about free and unique thought. However, because an idea is not original, does it devalue its worth? The basic principle of education says 'no'. Grismath's rant is meritous and worthy of posting if it has even reached one person and informed him about these points, which otherwise may have been missed and thus detracted from his possible quality of life.