But then again, what girl threads aren't hives of depressed awkwardness or spite?

It all started last summer. There was this cynical but comely lass who got along fairly well with me, and at this birthday party, we shared the last dance together, and were really the only ones dancing at that point, and when it was over and I puleld back, I could see something in her eye like she wanted to kiss me or something, but by then the moment had passed, and we parted ways. I then went to Mexico for two weeks, a college program for another three, and then school started back up.

I always felt more ... not so much nervous, as just generally out of my element around her than any other girl, really. Looking back at it, I think we liked each other well enough, but couldn't overcome incompatible personalities or interests or whatever excuse you want to paste on it.

Anyway, I took her to my winter dance, which ruthven, if he reads it , might recall as we ranted to each other at intervals about how pissed off we were with our women a lot back then, which was a complete and utter catastrophe, and I ended up just ditching her for the last dance and much of the evening, as she seemed to be purposely favoring other guys whenever I was around, but "looking for me all over" when I was away brooding. At the afterparty, which I hosted, no less, she was a complete wench (probably because she was pissed off rightly for my having ditched her rightly for the last dance), and tried to ignore me as well as possible. She told me she had had a good time when I dropped her off, but I later told her that I didn't believe her, but she continued to hold that she did.

I then went on and took her to my prom (going to an all male school, I have little chance to harvest more new women that I don't already know), this went decently regardless of her mocking me a little at the beginning, as while we were eating, I made a point of immediately eating when I was served. My friend's girlfriend pointed out, rather pretentiously, I should say, that I was demonstrating especially poor manners by eating before my date had been served, to which I responded, "If she were acting like a lady, I would treat her like one." BOOM. She was pretty subdued for the rest of the night and followed me around. I kissed her on the cheek while we were dancing, and she didn't seem to object or anything, but I was bored by the end of the dance, and we didn't talk or stay together at the afterparty.

I asked her to come to the movies with me twice (feeble, I know, but I just wanted to see the movies and discuss them on the way out, not so much pull moves), and both times she's had things 'come up' at the last minute. Alright, no sweat. I deleted her from my buddy list. She was no buddy of mine.

She talked to me a little over the summer once or twice, but nothing really major. Then suddenly, her all girls school is about to do a drama, and they were all begging me to audition, as I've been the lead of my school's musical, and principals in a lot of other shows. Alright, I gave in, I said I'd go, with the ulterior motive of cancelling once I'd auditioned and just socializing with some of the other girls there whom I hadn't seen in a while and talking with her.

But when she kept nagging me to ask other people I knew to try out, regardless of my telling her repeatedly that all the people I knew were doing my school's show (for which I had declined to audition), I told her bluntly that while I admired her drive and wished her luck in her hunt, I wasn't her six degrees of society b****. She retorted that whil I wasn't that, I was still her b****. Ok, death, destruction, hellfire. But! I saw this as a capital opportunity to find out what she used to think about me and have her tear me apart so I could figure out where I'd gone wrong with her and not make the same mistakes in the future.



Yes, I type uberproperly and rather philsophically late at night.

Ok, so I felt a little better, and she was ressurected from being dead to me. I hauled over to her school Tuesday for the audition scheme, when I found out that I was, in fact, the only male to have signed up, so the administration had chosen to change the show to an all girls drama instead. I went upstairs to find her after hearing of this and being pretty annoyed, and I found her sitting on the floor with some other girls, and I asked her what had happened, and she didn't get up, she didn't say hi, no hug, no acknowledgement, really. Another about-face. That really pissed me off, which I suspect was the purpose of the mind game, and so I left.

Am I wrong in not inviting her to my birthday party (which will be absolutely awesome :D) and severing all ties with her? Massassi, I ask for your advice!

Invite her.

P.S. Did you ever get that disco ball?

Your reasoning?

And yes, it is... AMAZING. I'll post pics after the party.

Well I mean, she doesn't hate you, she even said "She: well, to start off with, you're pretty much always pleasant to be around, you're probably one of the nicest guys i know", I mean you obviously would like to invite her, so go for it.

Invite her.

This is a classic case of fence sitting. You don't know what you want and are therefore being indecisive. As a result, she doen't know what's going on and is getting a little frustrated with you. You need to get it clear what you wnat from the relationship and tell her so she knows too. The fact that she's even still hanging around probably means she wanted something to happen and that might well still be the case.

Good thinking. I am unhealthily indecisive. But she just doesn't fit my archetype of the 'ideal girl', regardless of some minor feeling fossils I may have for her.

Yes.

Um.

God, worst chain of events possible. I pre-direct you to any comment Pagewizard may make.

I can kind of relate to this post so I might be able to give some insight.

Ok seems like you both liked each other. that you all had your moments to I kiss and become more intimate and those moments passed by.

I think she may have been a little upset on that end, and could have felt frustrated that you didn't make a move, and hence why she went about flirting with other guys. She was probably wanting a reaction out of you to see if you really did like her, expecting you to speak up and tell her you didn't like that if you really were interested in her etc etc, and make a move and kiss her. (yes women are complicated)

I think the fact that you did that to her at the dance and then she avoided you was probably because she saw you were being mean to her and then she put up her guard. You didn't kiss her or anything in the past and then there was a shift in how to act around each other, so hence it became awkward. Apparently from what I read, she didn't know if you were being serious about asking where you had gone wrong, which means you are probably sarcastic or something like that at times and hence she's not always quite sure how to read you. She's not sure if it's just a passing mood, or if it's something she may or may not have done, so she sort of walks on needles with you. But seems as if she likes you

Ok her asking you to do the play may have been that she wanted to see you, or she could have been just asking you as a friend. The fact that she said those good things about you seems to me that she cared about you, but when you saw her and she didn't acknowledge you, could be that she's still hurt about things and doesn't exactly know how to react with you. From what she put, it does sound like she doesnt have anything against you, but it definitely still seems like she's trying to readjust to being your friend. Things like that tend to happen when there are feelings involved with 2 people etc, like i'm sure you already know.

As far as your party I think it's up to you. If you wouldnt mind her being there, then go ahead. if not, dont. If you do invite her and she goes, then you all may be able to talk again and open up, then again she might still be awkward and distant with you, waiting for you to open up to her. Also there is the possibility that if you invite her, she may not go because of the awkwardness. But I'm thinking if she really does still like you, if you invite her she'll more then likely go. But each girl is different.

Now I may be wrong about allllll of the above. but that's my take on things at least. Hope it helps some

IF you're constantly looking for the "ideal girl" you'll never, ever have a successful realationship with the opposite sex.

AMEN! Thank you for saying that Avenger! lol

First and foremost I think it's good to look for qualities for a person to have, but to try and make someone fit an exact mold is virtually impossible.

Noone is perfect and your making this "ideal" person is just blocking you out from experiancing many diff. opportunities with various women. (and no I dont mean whoreing around)

When it comes down to someone to be with, I think it comes down to the qualities that both have, and whether or not they are perfect for one another. as cheesy as it sounds.

Your saying no sorry you dont have this that or this, and blocking her out for what might be something small and superificial (not saying it is, i dont know since you haven't said specifically why you dont see her as ideal) is closing you out to experiances.

Sometimes I think that when people build such ideals it's almost a way of closing them off from ever becoming close with people because if you never find that "ideal" you'll never have to worry about getting involved.

Also if your "ideal" girl is someone else, then that's a mistake right there. never compare people with one another. I had a friend of mine who liked me and claimed he compared other girls to me and they came up short. Personally I think he was just blocking himself off to other people because he wanted to only see himself and I together, which wasn't going to happen because I care for Mike only as a friend. And I see that in most people. Never compare. Take everyone for face value and go from that

She's a waste of time. If a girl isn't easy to deal with, and easy to socialize with, than she's not worth your time. A girl who plays these games in order to control 'her man' needs to have the feminism exorsized out of her.

JediKirby

Define successful, and I've had a relationship with someone I considered as falling under that category, and came close to doing so with another.

...then again, I met the ideal girl I went out with when I wasn't looking for love, and she came to me. And the one I didn't go out with went catastrophically early on.

I just can't get myself to really like anyone who falls short of that mark, especially since I've met people who meet it and have liked them.

Amen, jk. Unfortunately, the pools I draw from usually come from girl's schools (attending a male school), and are often very infested with a good deal of feminism.

Kirby is correct.

Well it seems almost as if you have already answered your own question.

In a sorts it already sounds like you dont want to bother with her. So then you shouldnt stress yourself out with seeing or not seeing her.

Either you do, or you dont like someone.

Either you do, and you are denying what you feel because she doesn't meet and ideal and you all have had your tifts in the past so you are cautious.

Or you dont like her, and now you are just making excuses because it's hard for you to make decisions maybe.

I dont know, at first sounded like you might like her, caring what she thought, but then you are also saying why bother.

If you dont like her, dont bother, if you do like her, then do. Simple as that

Well I don't really have any other viable alternatives at the moment. There's this splendid girl who's liked my for ages and is really nice and asked me out to her dance and everything, but I can't see her as anything else than almost a sister and a good friend, and a lot of my male friends have low opinions of her, and I am a follower of the social tides in such matters.

I don't think that it would really make sense to start into something serious or even take the time to mend the wounds with someone just for the sake of being involved with someone.

yeah that makes sense. then i think you pretty much already have your answer.

you dont want to bother with all that (which is completely fine) so my advice to you is to just let it go.

Dont try to patch wounds just to date her. it's not worth it from what you say. So I guess just look at other alternatives. If there are no other alternatives, all I can say is wait, and who knows someone else will eventually come along

where's my birthday present *shakes fist*
yea, other then that, i refuse to give advice because of my not having anything in the last year and a half

Sorry just had to add, I think it sounds as if you still like her, since you are still thinking about those things and worrying about all that. But that you also dont want to bother, so you are wanting to hear people tell you to just drop it. Again I say do what's best for you, either way it's not a wrong answer. What you feel most comfortable with doing is I guess what's best. In all sincerity hope all works out , whether you end up with her or not ever talking with her again, or some medium in between

Alternative or not, this girl is the type that you'd probably rather have nothing than a super-uptight "men are toys" kind of a girl. Seriously, mace her then go home and download porn. God knows many women have maced for less.

JediKirby

feminist chicks are pure poison. They are bitter, they are domineering (and often fat and ugly to boot).


Treat them like a drum of nuclear waste-- Don't go anywhere near it or you will be in for a world of hurt.

Okay, what you need to do is first get three microwaves...

just kidding.

Seriously though, you need to make up your mind about her. Either go for a relationship, or don't.

But she sounds like a ***** anyways; I wouldn't bother. Perhaps you should burn down her house.

Grismath: God damn...I usually try to act professional, but I'm pissed off. What the hell did I give you that material for? Did you even read it? If you had you would know the answer to this question: NO! Do not invite her to your b-day party. Sever all ties with her and move on. However, if you are content to living in confusion, hurt from the stabs you both take at each other, and feel you need to be the little ***** she claims you are, go ahead and continue interacting with her. And how did the IM rekindle your feelings for her? Of course she(or most any woman) is going to say your a nice person because she doesn't want to come off as a *****. It's the same as saying "I like you, but only as a friend." If a woman is into a guy, she won't describe him as "nice". She's going to use other, more powerful words. When was this IM before or after you read the material I sent you?

Is this the same girl from the camp? What happened with that?

Jedikirby: Women play "games" to separate the men with the traits they like(confidence and assertiveness are usually the most tested attributes) and those that are just pretending. A "game" throws the pretender off and makes it easier for a woman to make a decision.

okay, WTF is your problem?

And you laid into Grismath pretty hard, whereas I didn't. Who's showing a lack of tact here, exactly?

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.... I really expected better out of you, Kieran.

I editted that statement right after a posted for a reason. I thought you were pulling the fem-nazi card out of no where, then I saw that grismath mentioned it so I deleted the remark. Sorry.

And I'm laying into Grismath because he should know better than this.

Women who play games THINK that every guy is a complete and utter ***. There are much, much MUCH better things to ask, do, and say than decieve, lie, and outright attack the guy they're supposed to be working on a relationship with. There is, in no way, a tactical way to approach arelationship. You need honesty, openess, and most of all: the willingness to be hurt in order to achieve something great.

Furthermore, if she's got no judgement at all, than she needs to not bother with guys, since the games will get her no where.

JediKirby

If you're clashing this frequently this early into a relationship with someone, it's not going to get any easier as time goes on. I'd be hopping off that there rollercoaster.

In a relationship that is true kirby. But before a woman can even decide she wants to pursue a relationship with a guy, she has to make sure he is of high enough caliber.

Than she can ask him! Take a risk if he's possibly lying! If he isn't, she'll have a REAL relationship. If she plays "I'm in a shell can can't be hurt, I only DO the hurting" than she'll never be out there enough to be loved.

For instance this girl who walked up to me today and told me she really thought I was a nice guy, and she wanted to know if I was going to the football game with her. I know this girl good and well through being around her, and randomly talking to her. She hides in this protective shell, and there's NOTHING there to get to know. So yeah, I'm going to the football game just to get to know her, but I expect absolutelly nothing out of her, simply because she's done absolutelly nothing to show off her character, and all she's done is teased and flirted. There needs to be more than that.

JediKirby

Wait....it seems like we've diverged on topics. I'm talking about why a girl plays games with a guy who approaches her. You seem to be talking about a shy girl that is deviod of personality. That seems like her personal problem. And if she is interested in you with all the teasing and flirting, that is her way of saying "What are you waiting for? The ball's in your court."

What I'm saying, is some girls have become clam-shells of nothing but games. Those girls are useless. As are games.

JediKirby

games are fun.

Those girls who do nothing but tease and flirt just don't want a relationship and want to have fun by (usually unintentionally) screwing with guys' heads. Thankfully, I haven't met many of them. And even though I'm usually on the receiving end of games, I understand why women use them. It's their filter.

And it's their curse at the same moment. I and many other guys have begun to have nothing to do with it, and it's our own way of filtering.

ask her to your b-day party, don't cramp her style... wait til it gets later (assuming you are all getting drunk by syaing its going to be awesome [ the only other awesome being 16 man Halo lan party]) then talk with her... and when the awkward silence arises lean in and see if you can kiss her...

My final suggestion: Ignore the above post.

Kirby's full of pink, fuzzy, wonderful knowledge.

Or is that marshmallow fluff.

Same thing?