What do you all think? Think we need one? Should lawmakers be banning gay marriages and homosexuality and abortions? Should non-Christian attitudes/beliefs/values/opinions be discounted at all costs?

The world is generally screwed. I don't think having a better "christian" US government would do that much.

Personally I think that the government should concentrate on more direct issues, like what Bush has to eat for breakfast - instead of thinking about stuff like that.

Gay marriages should be allowed in my opinion. I think that homosexuality is a sin but still people should be able to do it if they want. Abortions - I'm not really sure of my opinion - as nobody can really tell when the embreyo becomes a human.

I think that if someone is raped then they should definitely be able to have an abortion. Otherwise - no.

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Sweet irony...

Nope. Both gay marriages and abortion has to be allowed.

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PWoT, NG, EW: The best sites on the net.

-@%

[This message has been edited by Terra111 (edited March 31, 2004).]

Of course!

Heil 'new better christian US gouvernement'!?

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"Music is the universal language and the
dialect we speak in is Hip Hop!" - King Solomon

if we allow that, then where will it stop? People will then be pushing to allow human/animal marriages, adult/child marriages, and all kinds of nasty s*** like that. It's a slippery slope.

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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

I never understood something... if I blow your head off... I get charged for murder but a mother can brutaly slaughter an inocent baby that she made knownly her choice... and she doesn't get into any trouble... hell they call it a medical proccedure. Strange when you think about it that way.

Abortions to stop babies from rape is a completely diffrent thing than this... that is more of a mercy act than anything.

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Don't be unwise judge me not by my size. You wont believe your eyes watch the xwing rise!

[This message has been edited by MechWarrior (edited March 31, 2004).]

Um...no they wont.

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PWoT, NG, EW: The best sites on the net.

-@%

[This message has been edited by Terra111 (edited March 31, 2004).]

how do you know?

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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

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"Run Away!"

Are you saying that gays are like animals, Pagewizard?

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"Music is the universal language and the
dialect we speak in is Hip Hop!" - King Solomon

no, i'm saying that people are going to try to legalize more and more stuff if we allow gay marriage. it would set a precedent, and I don't want it to happen.

Voters in cali pased prop 22 a few years ago by a wide margin, and prop 22 stated that marriage was only valid between a man and a woman. a few liberal activist judges and special interest groups shouldn't have the power to override the decision of the majority by ignoring prop 22.

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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited March 31, 2004).]

Of the topic? Absurd, since the United States was founded with a secular government.



The latter term is actually a fallacy. To paraphrase Bill Maher, women's suffrage didn't allow hamsters or children to vote, so why should we assume that allowing gays to marry would open the doors to bestial and pedophiliac unions? Animals cannot give consent, and are not considered human. Children cannot give legal consent until they reach the age of majority.



I've never heard of a case where a mother is known to have killed her baby and gotten away with it.


-Fox

That's not going to happen. I'm all for gay rights. Making it so gay marriage is legal is not going to make people think differently about other things.

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WARNING: THIS POST MAY CONTAIN TRACES OF PEANUT!!!
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so you feel that the opinions of those who oppose gay marriage are irrelevent?

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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

I believe people who oppose gay marriage are wrong to do so. If two men or women want to get married how does it affect the people who are opposing it?

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WARNING: THIS POST MAY CONTAIN TRACES OF PEANUT!!!
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Thats because you are equating a living human being to an embryo... thats a big difference.

... I've yet to hear an answer for that question.


-Fox

No. The government should be in the business of maximizing personal liberty while preventing the infringement of those liberties. Making laws based on the changing views of the majority doesn't make for a consistant rule of law.

because it goes against the will of the majority of the people here in cali--( prop 22 ). by passing prop 22, the majority of cali stated that they were not in favor of gay marriage. the government must respect that decision.

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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited March 31, 2004).]

Consistency is not always a good thing.

We permitted men to beat their wives and children. It was illegal for women to vote. We permitted a human being to own another human being. Just because everyone later thought it was wrong, should we still allow for it?


[This message has been edited by Hellequin (edited March 31, 2004).]

how is an embryo less human than an adult, or even a newborn, for that matter?

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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited March 31, 2004).]

But that still doesnt answer why they are against it in the first place... I mean it does not affect them in any way at all.

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WARNING: THIS POST MAY CONTAIN TRACES OF PEANUT!!!
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[This message has been edited by TheJkWhoSaysNi (edited March 31, 2004).]

I feel compelled to post part of a conversation with my best friend the other day:



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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"You'll have to face it, the endings are the same however you slice it. Don't be deluded by any other endings, they're all fake, with malicious intent to deceive, or just motivated by excessive optimism if not by downright sentimentality. The only authentic ending is the one provided here: John and Mary die. John and Mary die. John and Mary die." -Happy Endings [Margeret Atwood]
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

yes it does. if gay marriage is legalized, kids would be taught that it is no different than straight marriage. Many parents don't want their kids indoctrinated like that w/o parental consent. Kids are impressionable and will believe anything that you tell them, and the gay activists have been trying to exploit that for years.

Home schooling is always an option, but it shouldn't have to come to that.

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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited March 31, 2004).]

How come kids don't run amok weekly then, with the violence on TV having effect on their impressionable minds

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"Music is the universal language and the
dialect we speak in is Hip Hop!" - King Solomon

Laws that prevent adults from having sex with minors don't affect me. I still am in favor of them. It does not matter if the laws affect all the voters. Laws are intended to be the morals of the majority, codified, to bring about civil harmony. I won't bother to go into detailed explanation about codification and law purpose and process, because I know that within a few more posts this will turn into a flame war, but I wanted to throw in my two cents.

In my opinion that is a good thing, maybe then people would learn to be more tolerant.

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b/c most parents put limits on what kids can watch until they are old enough to understand the difference between real violence and fake tv violence.

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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

yet the gay community never hesitates to label the people who criticize them as "bigots" or "intolerant." Parents have the right to raise their kids how they wish, and I don't feel that kids should be exposed to the gay indoctrination agenda until they are old enough to decide for themselves. (like high school age).

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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited March 31, 2004).]

Marriage:
Marriage is a religious union, specifically between a man and a woman. Let's learn the difference between a "marriage" and a "civil union," which is the legal union of two people (not gender specific, as far as I know).

Abortion:
Human embryo, human DNA, complete ability to grow into a human... I'd say that makes it human. Last I checked, interrupting a human life constituted as murder.


Something I realized recently with the US government: they always seem to want to appease the majority. Heck, that's the way the government works; majority rule. You can't tell me that doesn't leave plenty of room for an ad populum fallacy.

Hey, anything for "freedom of choice," right?

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"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend."
- Proverbs 27:17

Catalog of Electronic Components - Complete IC data sheets
National Electrical Code® (NEC®) Online - Legal requirements for wiring projects.

[This message has been edited by DogSRoOL (edited March 31, 2004).]

Personally, I believe that gay marriage should not be allowed, but I have nothing against gay civil unions. I feel that marriage has religious implications, and, thus, do not support it, as homosexuality is not part of my religion. Civil unions, however, imply (to me) merely a governmental involvement, and, as the government and my church are not the same, I have no issue with that.

As such, should the issue come to vote, I will vote against gay marriage. If the decision is ruled against what I would like, I won't be outraged or protest it. I did what my right to do is - vote for or against an issue. If the majority of people would like to see gay marriage legalized, then democracy has run its course, and who am I to try and overthrow that decision?

No, I don't believe non-Christian opinions should be discounted, for if they were, we would be living in a theocratic republic, and I thought it was supposed to be a democratic republic.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it

[This message has been edited by Wolfy (edited March 31, 2004).]

If people vote in Christian leaders, fine. Although I really dont think it would help anything.

I'm not against the idea, but I am wary of theocratic governments. The whole idea reminds me of Puritan New England and I'm pretty sure none of us want that.

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please *

In my opinion it isn't but some consider the fact that it hasn't taken in air yet to be reason enough to consider it non human.

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Don't be unwise judge me not by my size. You wont believe your eyes watch the xwing rise!

By your flawed logic;

Sperm Cell, human DNA, complete ability to fertilize an egg and grow into a human. Interrupting a human life constituted as murder. Thus; condoms = murder by the millions.

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

Guess I'm going to hell.

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Don't be unwise judge me not by my size. You wont believe your eyes watch the xwing rise!

See you there.

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

Condoms prevent the creation of a life. Abortion takes a pre-existing life and ends it. But thanks for taking what he said out of context.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it

SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

Your idea is stupid. You're going to elevate one religion over others and make decisions based upon that religion. Gee, what a wonderfully BAD idea. I'm sorry if I have part of this wrong, but it seems to me that the above is EXACTLY what you want to do.

Gay Marriage? WHO CARES? Quite honestly, I don't give a flip on way or the other. If anything, I think it's bloody stupid that it's gotten blown this far out of proportion. If you want to be gay and marry someone of the same sex, so be it. Please, tell me, who exactly are they hurting by doing so? Your ideals? Life isn't fair, get over it. Your ideals will be walked on all the time, if you can live with that and learn to cope, that's to bad. Are they going in influence younger children? Perhaps. I don't see it being any worse that a young kid watching an older person smoke, curse, etc.

Abortion? I refuse to take a stand. It's one more thing I feel the US has blown up out of proportion. Most of what I said above can apply here as well.

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Frogblast the Vent Core!

--End of Line--

Unfortunately for that, the US Constitution was written to protect the rights of the minority from the tyranny of the majority.



Yet I'm confused whenever people talk about the "endless slaughter of innocent babies", when no such thing is happening. An acorn isn't an oak tree.



Not the US government. See above.


-Fox

I think the use of condoms is exstreemly mature and shows your taking responcibility. I would rather kill off the "chance" of making life with my girlfriend then I would take that chance and risk having a child that I couldn't support... I mean if everyone used condoms or other birth control unless they could support and wanted a baby there would be alot less accedents.

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Don't be unwise judge me not by my size. You wont believe your eyes watch the xwing rise!

[This message has been edited by MechWarrior (edited March 31, 2004).]