I'm with Thrawn. You sir, are a pile of idiocy conveniently mashed into an easily influenced, human-like shape.

Kinda like George W Bush.

I hope you go to Hell for Dummies

Nobody wants to read conspiracy theorist bullcrap. I would be MUCH MUCH more willing to take MBeggar's take on the issue knowing that he had a good buddy of his killed in the line of duty who WAS ACTUALLY IN THE BUILDING than a group of people who are making up anything and everything under the sun just to make Bush seem he was wholly behind these attacks.

I'm not wholly familiar with Pearl Harbor and us having the ability to stop it. Frankly I think it's another conspiracy theory. So I'm not going to outright believe it.

I'm done.

My "Study" that was in Scientific American showed to what degree people were effected by the events. The closer you were to ground zero, more stress disorders were present. Im not just talking about being "angry" about it, I'm talking about full fledged problems. I had a case of Post Traumatic Stress disorder that went on for almost a year.

It could have been stopped? How? Shoot the planes down? Oh right, that would be BRILLIANT. The airplanes flew right over my area, which happens to be dense suburbia. What do you think the public would have thought if airliners were shot down over small towns?


I am not disregarding this "information" because I dont want to believe it. I am disregarding it because it simply isnt true. How many times do I have to tell you that I know people that were in those buildings as they were burning?
The people who write these articles are just a bunch of loons who sit in their basement afraid to leave their houses because they fear that some international conspiracy is out to get them.


What if I found out that it could have been stopped? Well I think I would feel the same way I do right now. It doesnt matter if something could have been done or not, thousands of people are dead. There is nothing we can do about it now.

The flash video of the Pentagon talks about witnesses seeing missiles, then shows a jet engine rotor at the scene of the wreck whist comparing it to a the outside of a nearly intact engine from another wreck.
Then it's "theorized" that a small jetliner or figher jet did it. A fighter jet wouldn't have made it through the first ring of the pentagon, especially the prized naval jet. Have you considered looking at the specs for these smaller planes before screaming that we're all blind to the facts?
How does a small subsonic jet acquire all that momentum to punch through a heavily-fortified Pentagon? We're not talking about an office building; we're talking about one of the nerve centers of the US military. It was designed from day one to survive attacks.
You're also skipping over the obvious fact that the Pentagon was updated throughout the Cold War (remeber that big arms race which included anti-anti-weaponry?). Did you actually believe that the Pentagon didn't get any structural upgrades from the early 1940s until the 1990s?
MBeggar is right, they did show footage of the impact into the Pentagon. Did you not watch the news at all during the following weeks of the attacks? Did you fail to watch all those tapes bin laden recorded in his cave hideouts? He claimed responsibility for the attacks and promised more. Open your eyes, man.

At the point of my first post, I had been reading that site for 4 and a half hours. Reading everything I could find about these events. I will refer to my above statment. Read the website. Skimming over the front page is not reading the website. That's like reading the inside flap of a book and claiming to have read it all.

Read the flight timelines for those 4 planes. Read the information about Bin Laden. Read the article about the physics. Read these things. Had I read only the first page, I wouldn't be saying the things I am. You have to read these things! If you don't understand where I'm getting my information, read some more of the website.

Gah. MBeggar, you are making the huge fallacy of letting your emotions, the so-called "common sense" get in the way of intelligence. I knew people that died in those attacks as well; lots of us do. It pissed me off perhaps more than anybody at Massassi; on that day, I knew what level of malicious intent was fueling the terrorists, and what kind of gesture it was. However, just saying that "oh, it was tragic, it makes me mad, so don't probe into it!", is just plain ignorance. It is not disrepectful at all to suggest that it was far more sinister than we thought, in fact it is more respectful. I think the best thing that can be done is to find the true answer as to what happened then and there. I find it rediculous that you think it respectful to those dead to try to be ignorant as to exactly what killed them, as well as how and why. I think this is an America-wide ailment that the sensationalist media has inflicted... It saddens me, as it is turning the whole country into mindless, unquestioning sheep, regardless of who they side with.

As for the proposed hypothesis that you seem to favor, could you provide any REAL scientific evidence to back it up, not just anecdotes? (which are all I've seen for it are in the past 3 years) I mean something like the article I linked to, but one that calculated that the tower would collapse roughly an hour after collison, due to heat from the jet fuel.

Moral of the Story: There is no proven answer yet. I'm just trying to throw ideas out there. We need to find out the answers, for the respect of those who died in the horrific events of 9/11, and for the sake the people of America, and the world.

That's cute. I would degenerate myself to that same 3rd grade level of intellect, but I've probably already taken enough steps in the ban direction for today.

Bill, you are coming off as a consipracy theorist at best. You have no support for any of your claims other than some website you found. That is not proof of anything.

And yu really shouldn't be getting so upset because people don't believe your ridiculous claims seeing as the are, in fct, ridiculous.

Also, care to tell me how the US government allowed Pearl Harbor to happen? I'm plenty familiar with the evets and ready to shoot down all your claims of a US consirpacy to enter the war.

*reads this thread* ...

I hate anti-patriots.

That is all.

Avenger, I'll take that with a grain of salt, just like I do every other time you come down on me.

And I'm not getting upset, I'm trying to provoke thought from the people that have been possibly mislead, but refuse to believe it.

You don't know what an anti-patriot is, mister. I love the United States, but I hate being lied to.

I'm only coming down on you because you have no basis for your claims. A conspiracy theorist page is not definitve proof of anyhting. If you had reputable sources, people might consider what you're saying, but you don't

Reputable sources being places like CNN, or other news organizations... whom I have previously stated have not reported any of this information. How can I use a reputable source, if the reputable source doesn't have the information? Thats the entire point of what I'm saying! None of these reputable news organizations have ever reported any of this information! Don't you find that the least bit disturbing?

EDIT: And I'm not saying "Hey guys! God Damn MAN! LOOK WHAT REALLY HAPPENED!" I'm just saying wow.. this is quite thought provoking, and the possibility of this being true really bothers me, considering so much of it makes a LOT of sense.

back and to the left
back and to the left
back and to the left
back and to the left
back and to the left
back and to the left

Thing of the matter is, I very rarely trust anything outside of the usual news sources and scientific websites I go to. This website, to me, is full of BS and is very politically skewed. I watched both buildings fall, I saw the second plane it. It was a 767 that nailed that second building. Most horrific thing I saw, next to the people jumping out of the building. You go to any website and you watch that damn footage of it. It was a jet liner, not a fighter or a small plane. The WTC towers were freaking huge. Have you ever been in them or seen them in real life? Not on TV, but actually been to them and been inside? I have. The lobby of the tourist building could probably hold most of a jet liner. Its that big. Now, most people here can have multiple websites backing up this information. CREDIBLE websites, that is. Do the same and we might take you a bit more seriously than we are.

No-one said a small plane hit one of the towers. The site says a small plane or missile hit the pentagon. They basically state that a jet liner hit the second tower too. The real problem is, though, with this information... which actually... logically does not add up... with what we've been told... makes you think... was this alot more sinister than we think it is?

A missile wouldn't have a turbine rotor that large. It was a plane. The plane was shown on the national ****ing news the day of and subsequent days after the attacks. Did you not watch the news?

That should tell you something, unless you believe that there is some grand conspiracy to with hold such information from the public. Not all reputable sourcve have to come from the news.

It wouldn't be the first time we've been lied to. It's called a COVER UP!

Not to get too radical, but if we can create moving images of a full scale attack on Minas Tirith appear on a television screen, I'm sure we can make images of any number of planes flying into any number of buildings appear on a tv screen... I'm not saying I think that happened, because it's a little too out there for even me, I'm just saying don't think it couldn't possibly be contrived to cover something up.

Who knows why they would have done it. I'm sure there's **** cooking in the US govt that we don't know about... and don't WANT to know about.


[edit the majority of the word out]

You hardly have any idea what it was like for me. I saw the smoke. I saw the dust. A few weeks ago I saw the empty footprint of those buildings.
How could you be pissed off more than anybody here? I knew far more people in manhattan that could have been nearby when it happened. I dont need scientific evidence when I know people that were in those buildings. Not just one person mind you. At least 3 fire departments in manhattan and 2 from where I live. You can ask any one of them what they saw.
Why should I trust someone who writes all of this stuff? Were they there? I dont think so.
I dont have to read any of those things on that site. I dont have any time to waste on it.

CGI isn't that good yet, chief

...

I have nothing more to say. You just dug yourself deeper into a hole that you cannot get out of.

I know, but wouldn't it be conveniant if we could use it in low quality photographs and video clips... oh wait... all we have seen are low quality photographs and video clips...

Like I said, I'm not saying that it happened, I'm just saying it's possible.

EDIT: MBegger you think it's not possible that they would doctor photographs? You know it's not like they've been covering things up for years is it?

Since this is probably gonna be closed, I would like to say that you lose at being intelligent.

Hey, chucko, instead of just throwing random insults out, why don't you contribute to the discussion?

Every argument has already been presented. I could just say "I agree with everyone who shares my opinion" but then what's the point of that?

Secondly, I strongly believe that you're an idiot. And responding to my jabs proves that point. You lose. Good day sir.

oh yeah they just had high-quality video equipment just standing out on the street pointed at the twin towers

Responding to your jabs?

Me saying "Hey, you suck at life. So why don't you end it?" Would have been responding. Let me ask you this, did you even click any of the links I posted?

Actually, a fire truck did catch the second plane hit the tower. It was on something my World History teacher taped and brought in.

And yes Bill, I checked before posting anything. Otherwise I'd be an idiot with no facts to base his opinion of your idiocy on. And I like feeling like I have a right to call someone stupid.

OH ****! They doctored live video feed!

So uh... what about the people who lost family/friends that were on the plane that hit the Pentagon? Were they all in on the "conspiracy" also?

You know, all this bickering over 9/11 only means that the terrorists have won.

True story.

News flash Zully... the only live video feed we saw was of the second plane hitting, and the towers falling.

No that means something else happened to that plane. We just don't know what it was.

So it.... disappeared completely, and the people are living in some underground base?


Honestly man, use some common sense.

Oh ****, one plane hit the towers, so a news crew went down and while they were there another plane hit. So much conspiracy. They're out to get us.

I could write up a bunch of bull****, post it on the internet, and would you give it thought just because the "reputable sources" hadn't presented it? I just **** out a golden egg. It wasn't on the news. But it happened. They must be trying to cover something up.

THOSE DAMN ALIENS ARE TAKING OUR PLANES NOW? WHEN WILL IT STOP?

When we sacrifice Bill to them. Then they'll leave us alone cause they'll thin we're all boneheads who put all out faith into some webpage because it THE STUFF WE WERENT SUPPOSED TO KNOW!!11one

I think I've made my point.

/me cues X-Files music...

Bill, both planes were captured on video hitting the buildings. The first was by a french guy who was filming a documentary about fire fighters in manhattan. They were down by Chambers street I think checking out a gas leak. (These things happen alot, dont add it to your conspiracy)
The guy filming heard something roaring overhead (the first plane) and turned his camera to capture the impact.
Dont believe me?
It was shown on CNN. It documented that entire day.