I think i got an odd option on the topic.

basically i don't give a damn about religion and even goes out of my way to aggrevant and annony and in general piss off peoples who are "bible thumpers" in other word peoples who try to convert me or force or in general are way too overly zealous on the religious topic.

and i could at times say i don't give a damn what's going on with religion and god in general, but at same time if someone is debating about god and what so ever, i'm more than happy to jump into the convasion, occasionaly, like some example convestation that ive jumped into.

at the dinning commons, i saw someone who i knew from my floor lastyear and who had played halo with and in general hang out a bit, anyway he and two other people was discussing questions, such as where the heck did god come from, what the heck is he/she, and varrious questions like that.

anyway when i saw that conv i jumped right in and started to talk about that topic.

anyway i'm curious what the heck this means, am i an aethist, or am i just a dude who don't give a **** eighter way on that topic?

btw if people ask me what my religion is, i say i hate religion but i believe in god.

non-denominational-agnostic?

*shrug*

As long as people have their head's screwed on right I couldn't care less what God/Gods they worship/ignore/sacrifice small shildren to.

Woah, the grammar Nazi in me is desperate to go holocaust your arse, but I'll try and beat it down. with a stick.

As for your question, are you an atheist?

Well, this raises the point of disbelief verses non-belief.

- An atheist believes that God does not exist.

- An agnostic does not believe that God exists.

It looks exactly the same, but there is a subtle difference. Neither of them believe in God. 'Agnostic' has developed this false sense of neutrality for some reason, leading a lot of people to say "I'm agnostic!" to mean "I'm too lazy to have an opinion!". No, agnostics do not believe in God, but for a different reason to atheists.

Agnostic arguments tend to be along the lines of 'There is no evidence of God, therefor he doesn't exist' or 'There is no reason to believe that God exists'.

Atheist arguments tend to be trying to show that God cannot exist. These are usually to do with contradictions within the definitions of 'God', such as it not being possible to be 'all powerful' and 'all good' at the same time. I don't remember any of these off the top of my head, so I can't tell you why. Also in this catagory are things like 'Can God create a box so heavy that he cannot move it?'.

I tend to consider myself an atheist-leaning agnostic.
The atheist-style arguments however interesting don't seem especially convincing or useful (as they require both participants to agree on the same definition of 'God'), so I tend towards the agnostic style arguments, but I don't really want to be associated with the 'agnostic due to laziness' people, I want to make it perfectly clear that I refute the existance of God, so I tag on the 'atheist' part just to be sure.


It seems to me that you fit into the 'agnostic due to laziness' catagory, so I'll invent a new catagory, non-theist, just for you.

well. that's what I thought up until the last line of your post

which seems to contradict the rest of your post, so I'll conviently ignore it.

mort-hog: hmm interesting points, i never really thought about that topic, i did know there was aethist but never knew about the agnostics



for offical records that don't have an option for aethist or non religious i generaly just put down christians.

anyway about that little statement at the end. the reason why i say that is its often simpler to just say, i believe in god but don't believe or partipact in formal religion.

then i can just say that one liner and be off on my merry way instead of aruging on the topic of religion/god with these peoples.

*Shungs* on debating about god/religion it just depends on my mood that day *shungs*

i'm in generaly not a lazy person but on the topic of god/reglion and self analyzation, i dislike self analyzation in general so i generaly avoid those. *shungs* and on god/religion i guess it was more due to the way that i was raised, my parents both are christians i think catholic but i'm not sure, anyway when they were younger they did go to the church but now both of em have stopped and ive never seen them pray or do anything in relationship with god/religion in front of me, and they never talk to me on that topic. Plus i don't think we got any bible in the house, but we do have a few relgion related artifact but most of em are from over sea such as buddism and so forth.

basically my parent raised me up like anyone else but just never did talk or do anything on the topic of god/religion.

I'm kind of the same way.

I really hate Bible thumpers and will go to extremes to piss them off. But normal non-Bible thumping Christians need not fear me. As long as you dont say the phrase "You're going to hell for that" or walk around with a stick up your *** thinking about how holy you are then you're straight.

If I had to describe what consists of my beliefs and ethics right now, it would be the Golden Rule, and that's about it.

The Bible kind of got lame after Jesus died because then the rest of it is filled with people saying "Oh... I got a vision! Let me condemn you and set up really lame rules! But remember, belief in our religion sets you free!" Jesus condemned .... I can only think of one example off the top of my head, the money-changers, oh wait he also condemned the Pharisees who seemed to have acted like a majority of Christians=holier-than-thou-*******s

and for anyone confused, I'm not jewish, it's just a thing.

Yea I'm a christian but i really don't like "bible thumpers" as you call 'em. People just don't listen to christians who try to shove it down everyones throat all the time and unfortunately it makes the rest of us look bad.

I have no idea what you just said.

alhsl liiaslk lasfnionl.

Should make it better.

Ah, I see now.



...



>.>

For the love of God, at least capitalize i, if not anything else.


My personal opinion of what you've said (Don't take it as an insult, it's describing what you are, as you asked)
I'd say you are an ignorant, jerk of an atheist.

He doesn't believe in God, your argument is flawed. YOU LOSE.

Why is he ignorant...?

oh really? i'm an jerk, explain how, i only go after those goddamn annonying bible thumpers, but other wise i leave peoples alone and occasionaly i do join in debates about god's existance.

and on topic of bible thumpers, they get into your damn face and try to force their beliefs upon you, and they walk around like pompus *** with huge ego, and proclaiming how holy they are. so yeah i think theyre sort of asking it in my option, so i'm more than happy to grant them their wishes

now as of ignorant yeah i'm ignorant on the topic of the bible but i don't care.

Mort, an agnostic doesn't know if God exists.

They are being jerks, and you're being one back.... You're actions are not justified because they are doing something annoying and invasive.

I'm an athiest, but I studied the bible for a year, along with Catholic morals and stuff for two. (Went to a Jesuit High School) I can say what I want, because I know what I'm talking about.

You don't really know what you're talking about, other than your perception of what you've aquired from a public view of things... or so it seems, correct me if I'm wrong.

i could always ignore them, but often theyre extremely annonying and really get on my nerves, like this one time, an jehovoan wintessess's car broke down in my home town, and guess what he went on to do, he went onto walk ten goddamn miles on foot to reach my house in the country and procedudle to knock on my door and the min my mom opened the door he shoved the bible in her face.

that incident happened an couple year i think during my 7th grade to 8th grade year, and when i remember that incident i'm like wtf.



yep that's correct, but most people ive ran into on campus here at RIT are in some way similar to me, in options/beliefs

most of them used to go to church when they were younger, but most of them now don't go to church, and most of em don't give a damn about religion, but they say yeah i'm an christian, yeah i'm an catholic or what so ever and believe in god but other than maybe an occasional prayer i don't think they do anything about it.

btw by the word "most of them" i mean most of my friends

often the debate that i run into are about where god came from, and how to interage the belief of god into science, like how to explain the big bang with god. in other word they often don't even include the bible in discussion at all, theyre just discussing the topic of god's existance and how to interage that belief of god into the current accepted theories of science. and most of em aren't that deep anyway, and if it gets over my head i just leave.


but for most part the people i hang out can be little odd sometime, like for example two or three of them don't believe that dinosaurs were ever here, they say that its all bunch of fraud and that it was really just bunch of big peoples and what so ever. *shungs*

That is what I don't get as well.

There's the story of God creating everything, and us, but nothing of where God came from.

The story behind where he came from is as undefined as where did the universe come from. Niether side wins.

I think the Bible is a load of BS to be honest. In almost all cases, what is said in there didn't happen that way. And if it did, it is biased, and overexaggerated. It will be made to look like any cionicidental circumstances were divine. Etc, etc.

They got nothing, no proof. When I see something that is worthy of a God, I'll beleive in it. Untill then, all I have is all the facts that proove the Church wrong. So I'm gonna go with the whole not beleiving thing.

i think god might have created the big bang, but other than that he left the universe alone, in other word he dosen't care.

but how the hell does that effect my day to day life, how the hell does that effect our life, so lump me into the group of people who don't care.

if he ever rises his divine finger to do something then yeah i might believe.

The stories in the Bible have the same flavor as any other mythical stories. It's not the story itself that's important, but the meaning behind the story.

take that one up w/ Squirrel King, not me, i personaly have never cracked open the bible myself, i may know a quotation or verse or two, but those are some of the most common quoted one anyway so they don't really count.

Is this the way you want it to be, or do you think that is the way it is? If the second option, why?

you mean my option on this, i think its the way that it is, but untill i get an proof it dosen't really effect my day to day life so i rarely if ever think much on this topic. so i'm thinking from what its sound i'm leaning toward agnoist in other word i "don't care"

The meaning behind it..
There's the Moderate Contexualists who will believe this, but there is also the Literalists who will take everything word for word.

I do believe that the storys should be taken for their meanings, but often times A doesn't agree with B. Things are very contradictive... and specific to individual events.

Your a theist with no religious affiliation.

Remember back in the day when the Church did nice things for people? Like gave them food and helped people who just got out of prison to get back on their feet and really did honest to goodness care about people?

I think I need to rephrase what I said earlier though. I dont really hate Bible-thumpers. I hate the system which indoctrinated, no, brainwashed them to think like that. In my opinion Christians should be more like a hybrid of Salvation Army Hippies and less of the Crusading Bigoted types like the people who are in charge of things right now. Where's the love gone in the Church?

My friend and I were actually talking about this yesterday. Unless you conform in the church you're an outcast. What!? You dont wear a tie every Sunday? Didnt close your eyes when you prayed! Didnt take COMMUNION!? Blasphemy!

It's not that all churches are like that, but enough of them that I've been to or met people from are that it just makes me sick to my stomach that something so pure and innocent has become a megalomaniacal PAC with an afterdeath twist.

*dies from laughter*


I'm not atheist, agnostic, or theist. I just don't give a ****.

Actually, just disregard all posts by me in this thread. I was being an arrogant, ignorant prick and I do apologize.

These are 2002 estimates (Top 4 religions):
1. Christianity: 2 billion
2. Islam: 1.3 billion
3. Hinduism: 900 million
4. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million

See.. at least the smart people made the top 5.

First off all... there are SO many different religions. Who is right and who is wrong? Religion may be viewed at the ultimate salvation... but think of all the wars with religion as the backbone. Alot of them, eh?

Lack of purity. Corruption is a big one. From old to present day. At least in the old days the followers were not so lame. Now people slap the "Christian" label on themselfs with having no idea what they are saying. They went to church as a kid and were baptized, big deal. They don't beleive in any of the values taught. They don't go to church now they don't "have to" (Ie made by their parents.) And if they do, they go in shorts and a rock band tshirt, with their hair a mess, and havn't taken a shower for two days. Ok, so that's an exageration, but you get the idea.. Little kids playing Gameboys, etc. It's just a hassle now, it has no meaning.

Everything is falling apart. Sure, times changes, and so does the way things work, but things are out of hands and it honestly is harrd to beleive.

It's the organized part of the religion that ****ed everything up. The moral teachings, perhaps a little dated, aren't really the problem.

So, these people obviously arent Christians because they wear casual clothing? Did people 'back then' have anything more than a toga? Seriously now. Wearing a suit doesnt mean you have stronger faith, it means you A) have more money B) do it because your parents did it or C)are trying to impress people

I hate when people state obvious things like they came up with the idea themselves. Of course what's obvious to one person may not be to everyone else.

That's why it's so hard to argue about religion or anything on the internet because everyone is coming from all different directions at once. Most of the time people end up typing incomplete thoughts and half-arguments that only confuse other people. Some of us are thinking the same thing, but no one's ever able to say it without it getting all jumbled up or being two pages long. That's why people need to read these things with less conviction and more reflection on what they've already come up with on their own.

For example - Now someone will read the above and think "Obviously, I already knew that. Why is he even posting." Well, why are we still arguing about the existence of God?

Random Smilies -

No, not exactly. This is what I was talking about, the false sense of neutrality.
Agnostics do not believe in God. However, they do not believe that God specifically doesn't exist - that is atheism. Agnostics do not believe in God, usually because there is no evidence of God, or similar reasons. You can interpret "no evidence" to mean "don't know", if you want, but I find that "don't know" is far too close to "too lazy to think about the issue and actually come up with an answer" for it to be a viable argument.

Wow, what is this? A clump-everyone-into-a-single-group thread?
"Back in the day?" I guess all those 'feed starving children' ads aren't enough. Or the missionaries that go to other countries to build housing, bring clothes, food, etc. isn't recent? You mean like how we let people do community service by working in the church (and being quite generous in the credit hours we give)? See above.
heh. Works on two levels. No, you're not.
Heck, one time this kid brought weed to my church. (Not that we condone pot-smoking.) Even though mere possession of it is illegal in the US, we didn't feel the need to get police involved. Things like that are between God and the kid.[/quote]What!? You dont wear a tie every Sunday? Didnt close your eyes when you prayed! Didnt take COMMUNION!? Blasphemy![/quote]Oh no! I'm going to hell!
Heck, I dress casual on Sundays (jeans, t-shirt), and my pastor does frequently, too. I don't always close my eyes when praying, sometimes I miss communion. Heck, when I'm alone at the church, I burn insence sometimes.
Did I mention I'm a worship leader?
That means I'm holier than all of you! You're all going to hell!
j/k
Of course not. Didn't you get the memo?

Great. Now it comes down to "if you don't believe what I believe, you're dumb."
I don't know what religion you belong to, but no matter where you're comming from, that was a stupid and arrogant thing to say.

And those of you asking for a sign... isn't that a bit arrogant, too?

Mort: So you think the existence of God is something we should all waste time pondering?

I don't know if there's a higher power out there. I'm perfectly content to wait until I die to find out either way.

I don't usually get involved in religious debates on principal, but I don't appreciate being bracketed as "lazy" simply because I want to get by on my own.

As for the dressing nice thing.. yes I beleive it's an issue.

You don't go to the job interview of your life dressed in a wrinkled dirty ****y. It's a respect thing. It doesn't mean your a better person or not, you just do it. But then again, this is all opinion. I once saw a poster that said "It's ok to dress casually to church... Jesus did!"

And for the smart thing I said, it wasn't ignorant, it was just plain rude. Oh well. I shouldn't have said it, but I did.

If you think coming to terms with the facts of your existence is a waste of time...

It's an important question and all, perhaps the most important question throughout philosophy, but no, I don't expect most people to have particularly elegant answers as to why they do or do not believe in God.

However, "I don't know" isn't really a viable answer to the question "Do you believe in God?". You either do or you don't.
"I don't know" is really just a polite way of saying "No, I don't", because if you 'don't know' then you obviously don't believe in God.
You're probably not an atheist outright, being an atheist is quite difficult, but you're certainly not a theist.

Comparing going to church to a job interview makes no sense. The basis of Christianity are the teachings of Jesus. The way someone is dressed has nothing to do with that what so ever. In fact, I could see it being exclusionary in some respects. The fact that people are so concerned with their appearence when they are praying really concerns me. Furthermore, if you're looking down on someone based on their dress, well that's not very Christian of you, now is it?

I think Kevin Smith pretty much sums up my views on religion in general:

"I have issues with anyone who treats faith as a burden instead of a blessing. You people don't celebrate your faith; you mourn it. "

and

"When are you people going to learn? It's not about who's right or wrong. No denomination's nailed it yet, and they never will because they're all too self-righteous to realize that it doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have faith. Your hearts are in the right place, but your brains need to wake up."

Both from Dogma, if you didn't know.

Yes, actually, I do. I don't care why I'm here. I just am, and I plan to live according to my own ideals.