You may be interested to know that you seem to be ignostic. It is the view that the existance of God is meaningless because it has no verifiable consequences. So in answer to the question "Does God exist?" an ignostic would answer "It doesn't matter.".
Bear in mind that atheists and agnostics (and of course all theists) tend to dislike this.

Dressing casual doesn't mean you have to go dressed in a "wrinkled dirty ****ty"
God sees you all the time, its not as if he won't know your dressing smart just for sunday or whatever. I don't think you should go dressed in a "wrinkled dirty ****ty" anyways but if you do all the time then go to church like that too imo. Screw what all the judgemental people will think of you.

I didn't know that. Thank you.

You're wrong. Atheist believe in some other being, not paticulary a God or a Goddess.

Agnostics believe that no God or higher supreme power exist.

Anyways, all I can say is:

Read.

EDIT: My apologiese, Mort. It's kinda hard to explain the difference between the two, we both tried our best.

Main Entry: athe·ist
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-ist
Function: noun
: one who believes that there is no deity

Main Entry: ag·nos·tic
Pronunciation: ag-'näs-tik, &g-
Function: noun
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

Um... What? Whoever told you that lied.

Atheism has two definitions, actually. One of them is "not believing god exists" which is a vague definition (inclusive of agnostics) and should be ignored for clarity. The definition being used on this thread is "the belief that god doesn't exist".

Agnostics don't believe god exists, but also don't believe god doesn't exist. They accept the fact that they don't know.

This is really quite simple and easy to understand.

I looked up 'ignostic', and it seems to be synonymous with 'apathetic agnostic'. I don't see why any agnostic would be bothered by it.

Finally, someone puts it in perspective. Some of you seem to think, illogically, that neutrality doesn't exist and that you either believe one way or the other. That's simply illogical. Things aren't always as black and white as you may like them to be. For instance, I believe that there is at least one creator, but I'm also as open-minded to Christianity as I am to Hinduism. The truth is, I don't know, and don't choose to pretend that I do.



That sounds very similar to a Deist. The Deist argument is an interesting one.

You can pray anywhere, naked, clothed, poorly or nicely.
As I said, it's just my personal opinion, when IN church you should be presentable. But that is coming from an Atheist who doesn't beleive in anything..

*Produces 10 foot pole*

*Pokes this argument*

*Runs*

I like the iea of being agnostic - I, like MentatMM, don't pretend to know, nor do I get hung up on it - I lurk somewhere around that Ignostic thingy, of which I was not aware

Well then you're a theist.

Both agnostic and atheist arguments against the existance of God can probably be used against the existance of many Gods too.

Agnostics do not believe in the existance of God and they do not disbelieve in the existance of God. Therefor they do not believe in God, by default.

Thomas Henry Huxley is creditted with the summing up of 'agnosticism' and he said:


Basically, he is saying that he is unimpressed by the atheist arguments of why God cannot exist. He then goes on to say that he is unimpressed with theist arguments because there is no evidence, not a tittle or scintilla.
The belief that God does not exist because there is no knowledge of his existance - this is fundementally what agnosticism is.


Note, don't confuse any of this with Gnosticism. that's something completely different.

Agnosticism isn't the believe that God doesn't exist, so no, it isn't.

I would actually consider myself somewhere in between a Deist and a Theist. I believe in at least one creator, based on reason, yet I find it more likely than not, that the creator(s) no longer bother with our world. They may watch, but I see no evidence that the creator(s) interact with it in any way. However, I'm open to the possibility that the creator(s) may interact with us after we die. I simply don't know. In a sense, I am a member of my own religion, and even pray to the creator(s) on a daily basis, regardless of whether or not they pay any attention. I've heard that some Deists actually believe that the creator(s) may be dead, but I'm not quite sure how I feel about that yet. I'm very progressive in my thinking, in regards to religion, but I have never doubted the existence of the creator(s).

I still agree with Flirb, that Agnostics are neutral and that they simply admit to not knowing.

there is a god

there isn't a god

There is pie. Therefore, God exists. :p


I'm only going to address a few things. My ram is preoccupied with a massive 3D rendering, so I'm not going to quote because copy-paste takes *way* too long at the moment.

Dressing: Casual dress and dressing like a scrub are not the same thing. It would be somewhat rude to attend anywhere if you stink and are very dirty, particularly if you're going to be seated. Stank clings to things, as does dirt. People really don't want to clean up after you.

atheism: It is full disbelief in god(s). Contrary to what so many atheist try to say, it IS based on faith. There are three forms of atheism:

1. Hedonism - faith in pleasure. Joy and happiness are the sole purpose of human existance.
2. Humanism - faith in man and science.
3. Communism - faith in materialism.

It is possible to be atheist and believe in the supernatural. Just not in god(s).
I'll quote Julian Huxley: "Man is just as much a natural phenomenon as an animal or a plant; that his body, mind and soul were not supernaturally created, but are all products of evolution, and that he is not under the control or guidance of any supernatural being or beings, but has to rely on himself and his own powers."

agnosticism: belief that there is no proof of god(s). We can't know for sure. As far as I know, it's not divided into different forms.
It's really not hard to figure out what these words mean.
a = without
theos = god
gnostikos or gnosis = knowledge. (derives from the greek verb gignoskein, meaning "to know.")

Pretty self-explanatory when you put the words parts together. Greek is your friend. Everyone learn it... NOW!!! :p

~ ~ ~

So here's my take on religion, if anyone's interested: I'm Christian, as I indicated in my last post. But I share agnostic ideas. In other words, I don't believe the existence of God can be proven (not universally, anyway). But that doesn't stop me from believing that He does.

So why do I choose Christianity? Simply put, it's the only religion (that I know of) that offers both salvation and demonstrated the cost salvation at some point in history. Basically, I mean a demonstration that forgiveness exists (sacrifice of Jesus).
The bottom line of my choice is simple: If God doesn't love me enough to forgive me of my sins (provided I'm not doing them on purpose), then I don't want to spend eternity with Him anyway.

Jesus was always chilling with lepers and beggars and criminals, and you're complaining that people should dress up nice for Church.

You forgot the whores, lots and lots of whores.

Jesus loved his whores.

Exactly

Yes it is, by default. They do not disbelieve it specifically, no, but they do not believe it either.
Believing requires effort, it requires you to do something, to have faith. Agnostics do not have that. As Huxley said, an agnostic would be branded by a Christian just as much a heathen as an atheist would, because they do not undeniably accept the existance of God.
Agnostics might not disbelieve God as an atheist does, they simply do not believe that God does exist. Because of lack of knowledge, or lack of evidence.

It isn't really the 'choice' between 'believing' and 'not believing'. 'Believing' is the choice and 'not believing' is the alternative.

This is my get out of jail free card, I suppose. I certainly don't believe in any 'higher beings' as such, I feel like humans have religion just to give their lives meaning now that we don't have to worry about survival the way that the rest of the animals do. But I do think that if I were to die and was suddenly confronted with some kind of diety, then I could be forgiven the disbelief (apathetic agnostic stylee) and my 'sins', as they're part of being human.

My family (not my mum's generation, but her parents and before) are Catholic, and I think that's fuelled my opinion. All I've ever seen of Catholocism seems to berate humans for being what we are, and that makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I do not berate those who do not follow Christianity or Catholicism. I don't care if you are Catholic, (Southern) Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Mormon, 7th Day Adventist, Non-Denominational, or Mixed. My grandmother is Catholic and she's one of the sweetest woman I know. Sister Paulea (the Sister at the church my grandmother attends) would be willing to help anyone in need.

I do not know how Catholics are across the world (let alone out of my own area). I just want to point out that there are good Catholics out there. Yes there are those Catholics who still think the Church is the only sect of Christianity. They obviously need to read history, specifically one "Martin Luther" I digress.

Oh no, I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with Catholics, as I just said, much of my family is Catholic, and I certainly don't hold it against them. But I've always felt that if you are going to be religious, that it should be a private thing between yourself and your diety of choice (perhaps choice isn't quite the right word there!), and organised religion generally goes against that anyway.

Etymology is a useful method for working out approximately what a word is supposed to mean, but tells you nothing of the specific definition of that word. Take for example the word 'velocity'. It comes from the Latin 'velocitas' meaning 'speed' and 'velox' meaning 'fast'. So from the etymology alone, it suggests that 'veloctiy' is the same as 'speed'. But it isn't. Velocity is speed in a given direction, and it is that sort of subtlety that etymology alone cannot cover. If we spoke a strictly Germanic language, then etymology might be more useful, as we'd have something like "directionspeed" or something instead.

So the discourse provided by Thomas Huxley is considerably more useful in working out exactly what agnosticism is.

i guess besides having a general faith that there is a higher being, there is a question we cannot answer

1. space. does it end?

like seriously that boggles my mind... because we will never know, there is no way to travel the speed of light, if we did we still are billions of light years away from our closest galaxy. There is just to much that I am in awe of to believe that something greater then us could make all this and that it didnt just occur naturally. And if the big bang theory is true... then what surrounds that molecule of nothing that expands and forms our universe as we know it? there has to be something right for everything has mass correct? I don't know I don't want anyone to believe in something they know dosn't exist and cannot see, but something tells me there are to many great things that even humans, the smartest beings we know of can't figure out why we are here.

ag·nos·tic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-nstk)
n.

1.
1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.


Dictionary.com is never wrong.

Am I the only one who, faced with god upon my death, would reject him?

Your sins are part of you since birth, and you grow and prosper with them, they become a part of you. If you're cleansed of your sins, you cease to exist. You become a drone, and simply another puppet of the god you so blindly worship. Doesn't anyone else have the courage to stand up to a deity and make your existance meaningful? I like my sins, and I intend to keep them.

Hey, I didn't say I'd run forward with open arms shouting 'thank goodness, you're real!'. I'm merely stating that if some consious being is responsible for our existence, then we were made the way we are for a reason, and as such, should be forgiven our behaviour. I totally agree that if there is someone 'up there' then I'd want to have a serious word about their involvement in the world, and in the way some people choose to treat others.

[edit] I'm interested to know what your definition of 'reject' in this context is, though. When we speak about people rejecting god or religion, surely we mean disbelief? But if they're standing right in front of you, some omnipotent being, you can hardly deny their existence, or challenge their power over you.

damn thats hardcore flexor... what about murderers and the like? I mean I understand we learn from our mistakes; rather sins, and they are a part of us but don't you think we should try to limit them as many deity's suggest? I am not trying to be insulting in anyway and repsect your clarity on the subject I was just wondering if you take anything else into account.

Not reject their existance, but refuse to bow down to them.

I'm not saying everyone's a good person. There's good people with sin and there's bad people with sin. Regardless, those sins are part of you.

Ah, Flex, that I can understand, and to an extent, I agree. I certainly wouldn't worship someone who was responsible for the world we live in.

Cheaptrick, I can't talk for Flexor, but for me personally, there is a massive difference between 'sins' which are there because religions disagree with them (sex before marriage, homosexuality etc) and sins that actually harm other people (murder, theft etc). Ok, I'm about to get into the whole 'do athiests have morals' crap again, so I'll stop.

Your logic is flawed. If being completely sinless makes you a drone of God, the opposite must be true also: being sinful makes you a slave to that which you cannot escape on your own. And if you accept that too, there is no such thing as individuality.
If your individuality is based on sin, that's just sad. There's far more to life.

Do you go outside, work on a car, get all greasy, then refuse to bathe because the grease is "part of you?" I don't think so.

A low-calorie kind of god.

good point!

Well yes, with the current levels of obesity, everyone has to watch their weight.

cheaptrick, who are you talking to in that post?

Are you calling me fat? :p

dogsrool and his theory that sinning does not have to be a part of your life with his car/grease analogy. I mean i agree we all sin and it is us but it does not mean we should endorse it and carry it with us when we can cleanse ourselves through percirverance and willingness to be a better person, in front of god or not.

A question for most of yah who are religious, i'm curious how do you deal with the other gods.

there's the islamic belief, there's the hindiu, there's christians, i'm curious how you deal with all the other beliefs.

because from what ive heard and interprented from the limited amount of knowledge i have on this topic, basically almost if not most religion says that you will "go to hell" if you don't believe this religion.

so if you don't believe in christian god then you'll go to hell, but you believe in the islamic god, then that mean you'll be saved by the islamic god yet get condomned to go to hell because you don't believe the christian god.

how do you guys deal with that question, i'm curious.

We make a choice and live with it.