Your **** are real big
I think we should shack up now
You won't regret it

Fixed to make it haiku.

Seriuously though, if you boil down what Page says, he's right, like it or not. It's possible to be confident and be nice. It's just a matter of being proactive and going after what you want. You don't have to be a **** to do that.

Ive been the nice guy 3 times, and my longest relationship has been 6 weeks.

Waste of time.

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

I completely agree. Anyways, from my experience (from my last 5 ex's), this has been true in every case. However, my current girlfriend is a more straightforward in letting me know what she wants, so this doesn't quite apply to every woman.

Being masculine has nothing whatsoever to do with showing emotion. Who's listening to society's BS now? Sorry, but I don't generally fail. My shortest relationship was about 3-4 months. It's simply that I can pull of the nice guy routine better than most. Case in point:

same here Dogsrool, my shortest relationship was about two months, but it wa internet dating, and then i found real girl wich lasted for 5y.

that is pure crap.
ever heard the term "fairer sex" ?
ever heard of chivalry? being a gentleman?
you can be a very manly-man and still be the nice guy... it's about knowing how to show your emotions properly and not just thinking of her as an item. (that's the impression i get from your post... she's just something for you to have and you're the really important one)
society tells us that any guy showing emotion... expressing how he feels openly about love etc is gay and that's just stupid.

we can be masculine and all that without being hard. there is a softer side to testosterone and that's what women want... tha balance of security from the rock side of us and the soft side.
putting yourself on that pedestal and having her worship you... that's stupid.

I love the way PW only has to say one thing and everyone jumps on him... well look at the bright side it increases post counts to threads that normally only have about 10 cause no one cares.

No pagewizard is right. Women are turned onto that kind of thing. Do what he says.

I have been rocking the nice guy angle for my entire life, and the only time I have ever had any success was the night that I was too tired to do it... and my "inner man" came out.

Going out and acting like a **** isn't going to get you a long term relationship imo. You can strike a balance between being confident and being a nice person.

you are on the right track.

you know, you don't have to quote the post immediately before yours.

Let's just be happy that he quotes like a normal person these days. :p

Ahem.

Page, don't claim to know whta women wantm because you have no idea. Hell I can't even speak for all women and I am one.

If you follow PW's advice, you may get girls, I'm not saying you won't, but what kind of girls? they'll most likely be the one night stand type of girls, and that may not be what you want. I could not, however, ever see anyone who fully takes his advice to heart in an actual relationship with any girl with any sel-respect, because no self-respecting girl would put up with that crap.

I do agree that confidence is key, because it really is. But there's a fine line beween confidence and arrogance and crossing it is a major turnoff.

It is possible for someone to like a friend, I have most definitely done so at times, though there are also lots of people that I DO like as friends and not as anything else, so it's tough to say.

And there seems to be some confusion over what girls look for in guys. the major point is that there is no one answer for anyone. DIFFERENT GIRLS LIKE DIFFERENT QUALITIES IN GUYS!

So it looks like its up to me...



So, you are basing your entire defense on hypothesis?




This sounds like another case of the people here making assumptions without having ever met me in person. Do not presume to call me arrogant. I simply take the unorthodox stance that the women must win me, not the other way around. Why should I chase after them and work my a** off to win their favor? Simply bnecause society says I should? If that is the case, then society can go to hell. I care not what society says, I am bound by nature, not society.

The one that taught me everything that I know about this stuff said it best:

"In order to be successful in the world, you must be successful in your mind. As you think, you will become."

What this means is that the way you see yourself will gradually change the way you actually are. If you believe you are strong, you will be strong. If you believe you are confident, you will become confident. See where I'm going with this?

Why should they chase after you and work their asses off to win your favor?

i am a ninja
robots kill
i need groceries

Page, I never once called you arrogant. That wasn't even directed at you.

and what defense am I basing against? what am I defending against? I have no idea what you're talking about, I'm sorry.

and no, it is not up to you to speak for all women and I would much appreciate it if you would stop.

The one who taught me also gave me the answer to this question when I once asked it to him. It was something along the lines of (if my memory serves me correctly)

“...For true passion with women can only come when the man can easily walk away; the Great Catch walking away is woman’s Great Fear.”

Basically, women must work to win my interests b/c I can easily look elsewhere if they don't. I want a woman to celebrate life with, not to cling to at any costs. I'm out to have a good time as I go through life, the woman is merely along for the ride. This is what separates my mindset from everyone else's. A lot of guys chase after women b/c they base their happiness and measure their success on having a woman.
When they do this, they elevate women to goddesslike levels, and it turns them off. Would you want to be around someone that constantly sucks up to you and kisses the ground you walk on?

<3 FastGamerr

No, not really.

Exactly. Arrogant. Placing yourself on a pedestal. "Come get me, ladies."
Tell me, who was the last woman you loved? Or have you ever? You seem to look at the whole dating thing as a game. Me, I'm looking for a serious relationship.

You shouldn't. Patience is a virtue. The right woman comes along eventually, and I have no need to chase others along the way.
Appeal to nature fallacy. :p

No, it will cause a delusional self-image. I work to become who I am, and I change all the time. I don't need to imagine myself as something I'm not in order to do so. I stick with reality, thank you.

Not really. If I believe I'm a fish, I'll become a fish? Get real. Success doesn't fall into your lap. You do have to work for it. I'd much rather believe in what I am that what I pretend to be, even if it's less.

Here's a thought: SO CAN THEY.

A lot of guys, maybe. I chase to get what I want, not to get whatever comes along. Quality, man.

DogSRoOL=my hero

Arrogant: # Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
# Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others

The irony is jsut killing me right now. Anyone else feeling that like I am?

how do you think a serious relationship begins? You just don't dive headfirst into one, you gradually work your way into it. This is where my stuff comes in handy. You also seem to have a problem with treating this like a game: you don't really limit yourself to technique in the end; i've more or less moved beyond it. Following rules and guides is a crutch to help you learn. Eventually, it becomes natural and you can trust your instincts.

You also seem to imply that you don't want to change and become something other than what you are now.

As the one who taught me once said (and I paraphrase) "You must be changed by life, or you must question as to whether you are truly living it."

It's been about 5 years now since I turned. I once thought the same way you did, until I hit a breaking point with some chick and couldn't take it anymore. I sought out answers and found someone that changed everything and taught me all that I knew. (And i'm probably just one of many others in a similar situation) This guy was the undisputed master and knew virtually everything that there is to know about these things. He taught me all about the world and the way it worked, as well as about myself. I learned from the best, and it changed my way of thinking forever.

Why am I telling you this? I was once like you. I believed what you believed. At first, I was skeptical, just like you are about this. However, after trying it and seeing how well it worked, I chose to learn and master it. I haven't looked back since.

However, you must actively choose to try it. I've exposed you to it. To rip off a quote from the Matrix, I've shown you the door. You have to walk through it. I can see that you've made your decision, and I respect that, even though you seem to be one of my most active opponents on this thread. However, I must also add that you have no idea what you are missing. It goes far beyond women, which are more or less the icing on the cake. The real power lies in how you can change and influence the world around you with these same skills.

However, its your decision whether to listen to me or not. I realize that most of what i say sounds questionable to you, b/c thats how it was for me too in the beginning. However, that's part of what drew me to it, b/c it seemed different enough from what i was doing to possibly work.

WTF is this "one who taught me" BS? Did you get sick of the fact that you never got laid because you're and overassuming, unattractive and otherwise annoying human being that you took time out of your meaningless life to apprentice under a Tantric master of the Sexual Art?

You sound like some crazy mystic, when in essence you've been down on yourself and read some self-help books. Just drop the facade and be honest instead of being an arrogant prick.

The nice guy thing works. I've never played the role of the cocky testosterone master as Page seems to love advocating. The fact of the matter is that the nice guys end up ruling the world...

Let's look at highschool shall we? The "successful" guys who were getting the girls were also the jocks who cared more about their biceps than their academics. The girls they got were often the pretty, know-nothing cheerleaders and the like. Where are they now? The cheerleader is pregnant again by another man who's name she doesn't remember, and the jock is a manager at your local Burger King.

In contrast, you look at the nice guy. The guy who always treated his friends (both male and female) with an equal amount of respect. He dated less than the ManBeast, but the relationships he had were more meaningful. The key to a good relationship is friendship. I don't understand the phobia everybody has with being her friend before you dive into a sexual and serious relationship.

Tell me, what good is it going to do if you can get into a serious relationship, but you're not friends so you don't really enjoy any time you spend together in a non-romantic environment? If the only thing you can do together is cuddle, kiss, and have sex then you're going to get bored quickly. There has to be substance before there can be romance. You should WANT to be her friend first. If you can stand hanging out with her (which is a difficult task, because girls often like to do things that guys really don't like to do and vice versa), then you know you can spend LOTS of time with her. This can lead to the most meaningful relationship you'll ever have.

I advocate such an approach because it's safe, tried and true. However don't use my current relationship as an example. My fiancee and I have been together for quite some time. However the situation there is a rare one. We enjoy alot of the same things (not everything, but that's OK) and it was more a love at first sight thing. The only indiference I have is that it was a situation that sounds alot like Page's recommendation. I was actually interested in her best friend, and she hunted me down and got me. I was the prey, and I was gotten. But not because I stood up and said "Here I am ladies, fight for me!". Because she wanted me, and I had to open my eyes to see her. Once I did that I fell for her instantly, and we've been together since. There have been ups and downs, but everybody has them. Just learn to accept them and move on.

In short, don't be a Wealth of Testicular Fortitude like Page. It'll only get you Burger King Management. Or lonliness for the rest of your life if you somehow do become successful. You'll be the boss that everybody hates because you're not a nice guy and you don't know how to properly deal with people. Just be patient, and get to know your prospective lovers. Be their friends before you're their boyfriends. That's really the only way to find happiness.

LMAO. I'm sorry Page, you have some reasonable things to say on confidence, etc, but please...dear god please....stop presenting yourself as some learned Kung Fu master or relationship televangelist. It's just...no.

Anyway, putting a girl on a pedestal is about as advisable as PW's advice which puts you on a pedestal. Things go a lot easier if you just dispense with any sort of pedestal IMO.

What? The ability to choose others instead of vice versa? There's several girls interested in me right now. So what? I'm going for what I want. And that's that. I don't want to settle for less than what I have my eye on.

I'd love to see how well this all works for you in about 5-10 years or so, Page.

Hmm. After reading through this thread, my opinion on Page is about the same as it's always been: He does, and suggests, a lot of the right things for the wrong reasons.

You have to give ihm one thing though; he should go into speech writing. serioiusly, he's a good persuasive writer, I see a real future there. It's just the fact that what he's actually saying is, in my ever so humble opinion, crap.

A good speechwriter that writes crap is somewhat of a paradox.

LOL! Another one of these threads! Page, you're starting to sound like an infomercial again.

The only question of importance is: is either of them hot? Go for her.

Give her a link to this thread. Oh, and post her e-mail adress and website for massassians to go visit. If she has her own forum, you should definately post that so that we can all post there.

...

What?

Does no one know my happily ever after story that started with massassi screwing it all up?

I'm serious.

We'll just start calling these threads "Pagemercials". Maybe we'll eventually have a Pagemercial forum. Sweet.

Also, DogsRoOL = my hero too

No, actually.

/gets popcorn and pulls up a chair

/me has some of DogSRoOL's popcorn. I want to hear this too.

Oh, and though this might be late (maybe you can try it on the third date), ice skating can be really fun. Or I guess roller skating if you don't have an ice rink nearby, though it's just not the same without the ice.

Okay, almost a year ago (like a year ago, within maybe a week) I posted on massassi about how there was this beautiful girl and I was too shy to talk to her blah blah blah and how I had been sorta 'stalking' her by joining her forum and stuff.

Well then I had a stoke of pure stupidity and posted a link to her forum. Some massassian went to her forum and sent her a PM with a link to the thread where I said she was beatiful etc.
His name was "Helper 01".

Well, the next day at school she started talking to her friend about some stranger on her forum, and then she was like "I know you're 'Axis'. I was like "ahhh!" but then later she was like "I saw the thread. The one where you said I was beautiful."

I spent Christmas break hanging out on her forum and posting like crazy. The rest of the year we were like best friends. Then over the summer I set up a chatroom on IRC, and we'd spend like 2 hours (at least) almost every night talking and role-playing IRC style and stuff like that.

Now it's been like a year since I really got to know her, and we're like best friends. Best friends, but also something so much more.

*sigh* I'm so lucky...

The moral of the story? Don't be afraid to talk to a girl. You never know what might happen.