Well I sold my 98 cherokee and I'm buying a 91 Wrangler. Going to pick it up on Friday if all goes well with the bank. Here's a pic:



------------------
EvilMagic.net: Brian's Web Log

Not happy with the Cherokee?

------------------
To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
HTP
babble, babble, b!tch, b!tch, rebel, rebel, party, party.

No, it sucked. Unibodies are crap offroad and it had too many new "features" that pissed me off - like constantly beeping at me, air bags, electric windows/locks/seats, all the "creature comforts" that get in the way and make the whole thing more complicated and more annoying off-road. Plus, it felt like I was driving a subaru station wagon instead of an SUV, so forget it.

------------------
EvilMagic.net: Brian's Web Log

oh lord lord why? get a DECENT car

------------------
stop talking in brail

300 years as jedi master i was, now i bloody night-lite

(:-) Monobrow

decent, i just saw a program on the history of jeeps the other day.. coolness

------------------
Kroko> Massassi is like Nazi Germany online, only it's not in Germany.
|\|\|\|\|\|
<kak> WHY DO THESE RETARDS CONTINUALLY TRY LINUX?
<kak> IT DOES NOT MAKE YOU COOL.

Um, it's not a car.



------------------
EvilMagic.net: Brian's Web Log

cool... just don't let this one get stuck in the ocean

------------------
LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!

Nah man I'm just joking enjoy your new toy.

------------------
Don't be unwise judge me not by my size. You wont believe your eyes watch the xwing rise!

Brian, the '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee recieved poor reviews due to poor power equipment, fuel, transmition, electrical, A/C, integrity, and suspension. It recieved especially bad ratings on the brakes... that's not a good thing. The only good thing was a very good ignition as well as good exaust and paint job. It's good to know that you're selling it.

I can't say too much about the '91 Wrangler as most reviews cover the newer models. I do know that it got an engine upgrade.


As far as I know, jeeps have a bad reputation for reliability, so research this make before handing over the dough.

If you havn't already, you may want to read this:

http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2054

Good luck!

------------------
I check my e-mail.

I hate the Cherokees. As a matter of fact I hate all SUVs. They serve one purpose and one purpose only. Off road use. Any other use of an SUV is a waste of my resources and I HATE that.
(disclaimer; if you use an SUV and go to the store but own it because you go off road more than occasionally (twice per year) then that's ok)

------------------
To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
HTP
babble, babble, b!tch, b!tch, rebel, rebel, party, party.

You don't want air bags, Brian?

------------------
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat volutpat.

I honestly don't know why people ***** so much about SUVs. really, mine gets better gas mileage than most every single truck I've come across. (21-23 MPG) It's just a scapegoat for wasted resources and pollution, when it's the 30 year old vehicles that are the cause of that.

------------------
Have a good one,
Freelancer

I hate SUVs, and they get bigger every year. I work on the maintenance crew at a summer camp, and one of our jobs is to help the parents park in the morning and afternoon when they come to drop off and pick up their kids. At least 75% of the soccer moms that show up drive enourmouse SUVs, and of that 75%, 90% of them could not drive them if their lives depended on it. They dont watch where they are going when they are backing up, they try to fit into parking spaces that are way too small, and they jam on the gas when they leave without any idea of how much momentum those things have, nor consideration for the fact that its a summer camp and there are little kids running around.

There is nothing wrong with SUVs... they can be great cars, if you're looking for something to go off-roading in. But Soccer moms do not need them and should not be driving them.

I've always wanted a jeep wrangler myself, or even a world war 2 era jeep. Have fun with your new toy, Brian.

------------------
And everything under the sun is in tune, but the sun is eclipsed by the moon...
DSettahr's Homepage | Cantina Cloud | Rally NY

[This message has been edited by DSettahr (edited April 19, 2004).]

I second that.

------------------
I check my e-mail.

I HATE 30 year old vehicles that are a waste of my resources.
The only reason I don't go off on them is there is a necessity for them. Cheap transportation for those of us that can't afford a new cleaner vehicle. I HAD to own a couple of them in my life and I know others will HAVE to also.

There is NO practical need for a $70,000 Cadilac or Lincoln SUV. Maybe there is for a Hummer, but most people who own one use it to go to work and buy pop and milk at the store. They should be fined for that.

My 2001 Honda Civic more than serves my purposes for owning a vehicle, even though I would love to own a mid 80's full size GM pick up (again) I would never get one because I would feel guilty. :/
And it gets better gas milage than your SUV Freelancer.

------------------
To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
HTP
babble, babble, b!tch, b!tch, rebel, rebel, party, party.

[This message has been edited by Darth Evad (edited April 19, 2004).]

Yeah, well, by that logic, there's no need for a 70,000 dollar sports car either. They are designed to drive too fast and are only a risk. Just let people drive what they want to drive and get over it.

------------------
Have a good one,
Freelancer

That probobly won't be so easy to say when our atmosphere becomes something similar to what's seen in the matrix movies...

On the other hand, much of the air polution we face comes from the production of vehicles, not the use of them.

------------------
I check my e-mail.

My brother has a jeep, same back and everything except its black. Oh and his jeep is green.

------------------
Fear, It Controls The Fearful. The Strong. The Weak. The Innocent. Fear Is My Ally!

The Arcane Sith

Freelancer, I do let people drive what they want to drive.

Why do sports cars go 200km/h when the speed limit is 100km/h and most highway deaths have speed as a factor?

Why do they make SUV's for people who don't need SUV's when my resources are dwindling?

I'm just adding to this thread. Get over it.

------------------
To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
HTP
babble, babble, b!tch, b!tch, rebel, rebel, party, party.

You can't complain about air pollution if you drive. If you walk or bike instead, then you can. Also, it's a little hypocritical to complain about the miniscule amount of wasted resources that are produced because vehicle A gets 4 more miles to the gallon than vehicle B. Want to know why? Because if you're posting on this forum, your lifestyle is likely such that you consume FAR more than your share of the world's resources.

America/Canada/Australia/Western Europe, being like 40-50% of the world's population, consume 90% of the world's resources, so don't complain to me about my SUV. Besides, Hydrogen / fuelcell hybrid automobiles are on the horizon anyway.

------------------
Have a good one,
Freelancer

That I understand. I have thought long and hard about these issues. And took Environmental Biology in college, studying the impacts of these things on the environment, and me. There is only one way not to have this type of impact and that is to go live in the woods off the land.

In saying that, I can't. So I don't. I have come to realize every little bit counts. Including 4mpg. Or half the non biodegradable plastic it takes to build a Civic over a Cadilac SUV.

------------------
To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
HTP
babble, babble, b!tch, b!tch, rebel, rebel, party, party.

Because unlike you, the rest of us like to have fun in life instead of worrying about inconsequential pollution.

If you get kicks out of being efficient and not enjoying having toys, that's great for you. Just leave me alone, and let me drive my fun cars.

------------------
Ω of 14

Okay, we're agreed then, Evad. oSiRiS, he *is* letting you have your fun. It's in the first line you quoted.

------------------
Have a good one,
Freelancer

I think oS just wants to disagree with me. Heh... In this thread he wants to have fun in his sports car, but in another thread he can't because he doesn't want to pay taxes to have paved roads. :/
And as 'informed' as he thinks he may be, there is no such thing as,


------------------
To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
HTP
babble, babble, b!tch, b!tch, rebel, rebel, party, party.

I didn't own a Grand Cherokee, I owned a regular Cherokee. I had it for about a year and never had a problem with it. No, hell no. There are a couple of problems. First, there is a "black box" that records your driving and speed/etc. and cops can get at it and use it against you if you ever get in an accident. The problem is that it reports your speed based on the rotation of the tires, not on actual speed. So if you switch the tires for bigger ones, or if you hit an oil or wet spot, and your power tires are spinning, it can record you going 100mph when you were only going say 50. Second, if your air bags pop off-road due to a collision with a tree or rock or whatever, it can injure you and it costs $3k to put them back. Most insurance companies total the car out if the air bags pop, even in small collisions with < $1000 other damage. What about snow and ice? What about the fact that we are free to do whatever we want, despite the fact that it may get bad gas mileage? Hell, my Cherokee got 17mpg consistently, which is much better than the F150s that are more popular than cars nowadays. And who are you to say I'm wasting YOUR resources? Do you ever take a plane somewhere? That plane burns more fuel in your one flight than I will burn in my entire lifetime! Do you keep your house more than 70 degrees? Wellllll did you ever think that your power could be coming from coal burning factories? Do you recycle 100% of what's possible? I haven't thrown a can or bottle or piece of clean paper or cardboard in the trash for the last 8 years. Do you use a lot of plastic products? Did you ever consider the amount of materials that go into each NEW car that gets purchased? I bet it took more materials to build a new honda civic than it does to drive my Jeep for 5 years. Falsehood. Wranglers are small. Small SUVs have been selling more and more lately (forester, rav4, liberty, etc.). Cherokees are smaller than subaru outback station wagons and much smaller than ford explorers. Wranglers are even smaller. Speed limits change. Sometimes you need the power. The people who claim "speed was a factor" are dirty cops or insurance investigators or news reporters with an agenda. Guess what, speed WASN'T a factor. Crappy or unprepared driving was. SPEED doesn't kill, it's a person's choice to speed. It's speeding without knowing wtf you're doing (or perhaps speeding with bad equipment) that kills. I would -love- to do that, but guess what? Our more-and-more socialist government won't let me "own" land without paying monthly taxes on it. So I have no choice but to get a job. When I can OWN land for real (not rent it from the government), perhaps I will take up this lifestyle. But even then, I'd want a Jeep to go through the woods to get to my cabin

------------------
EvilMagic.net: Brian's Web Log

Toll roads. "But that'd be inconvenient", you say. Well, if all roads were toll roads, I'm willing to bet they'd come up with a nice, handy, automatic metering system.

Meanwhile, we wouldn't have debacles like what recently happened around here. A government engineer made a mistake when calculating the strength of about 10 new overpasses. They are now all being torn down because they sagged by like .000001 meters, and the project has been set back a year or two, and is going to cost the taxpayers MILLIONS.

------------------
Ω of 14

http://www.407etr.com/
Yeah. I don't use it and niether do 100's of thousands of other southern Ontarians. Why? Because they charge too much. I only use it about 3 times per year when I'm in a rush during rush hour. It's like driving at midnight on Monday. LOL!! No one wants to pay the tolls.
It's automatic btw.

Power and speed are 2 different things.
Let me rephrase the accident thing. It's a diffenence in speed that is the factor I was speaking of. Like 140 compared to 90. Lots of risk and possible damage there. 105 to 90 would be much less risk and much less damage.

I would love to live in the woods also. Adn I'm going to. I'll have to pay taxes but I'm OK with that. They will be minimal. Like $250/yr.
My friend actually lives in a insulated army surpluss kitchen tent he bought for $150. He squats on crown land just outside of Dawson City Yukon. He hasn't paid living expenses (other than food) for about 6 years now. He makes $60,000/yr. too the *******.

And finally,

as I said earlier.

oh and I don't buy the snow and ice thing. I've lived where it has snowed for 34 out of my 35 years and never needed 4 wheel drive. NEVER! I've gotten stuck about 3 times in my 20 years of driving (21 years to be exact). It's inconvenient but not too hard to call someone to help dig.

------------------
To artificial life, all reality is virtual.
HTP
babble, babble, b!tch, b!tch, rebel, rebel, party, party.

[This message has been edited by Darth Evad (edited April 19, 2004).]

Nice Jeep Brian, I love those.

And about the black box thing, there are ways to take care of such problems...

------------------
http://www.sporkaudio.com

Not to turn this into a flame war, but:

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

------------------
Our very existence is at stake

SUVs **** me because the very large majority of drivers are soccer mums with no reason to own a 4-wheel-drive other than they can fit 32 grocery bags in the back, who have no idea how to handle a car with such a large mass and high center of gravity. They're a menace.

Plus they're a needless obstruction on the road, if one is turning right in front of me and I'm also turning right it's impossible to see if anything is coming as they obscure the entire view of the road.

If you're one of the very few people who actually drive your SUV off-road and use it as it was intended, fine, happy SUV-driving to you. Otherwise, buy something more practical and less intrusive.

------------------
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

[This message has been edited by Spork (edited April 19, 2004).]

Amen Spork

------------------
I’m not going to die, I’m going to see if I was ever alive. - Spike
It's not your right to decide whether they live or die. They deserve a chance! - Vash
Originally posted by Elana14: i would love a dong like that!

Brian just pwned everybody with that last post...

------------------
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"

SUVs getting bigger? Yeah, maybe, but did you ever see the old suburbans? HUGE.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Ric_Olie: Wrong thing to post. We arn't looking for a debate about the so called 'oil crash ' (which is old n3ws, btw ), we are discussing Brian's choice to buy a Wrangler.





See the connection?

------------------
I check my e-mail.

You're right, it is inconsequential. 4 miles per gallon. It's bullocks. Feathers in the aviary. Until you multiply that 4 miles per gallon by everyone who has that car/similar ones, who waste that 4 miles a gallon. Then people drive more than one mile. Hell, I have to go about a mile to get to any sort of store. 2 or 3 to get to any semi-large grocery store.

So then you do all the math of all the driving one person will do in that car, and then multiply that by the number of people with that/similar cars wasting 4mpgs.. and it comes out to more than an insignificant amount.

------------------
[19:59] Happy "Liar liar" dud: This is arguably one of the lowest points in my life.
[20:00] Happy "Liar liar" dud: I'm sitting here infront of my two computers wearing shorts and with no shirt, eating potato salad and orange juice, debating the existance of pants.

Thanks for doing my research for me and proving my point. Anyway, if there were no government roads, you'd use a system like that. No one wants to pay the tolls? But I thought you liked taxes? What do you think GAS TAX *IS*? The difference is that the government has little motivation to use the money from its tolls effectively when it can just TAX MORE.

------------------
Ω of 14

I love SUVs. Hope my parents get me one.

------------------
In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

Um, the Western world consumes 90% of the world's resources BECAUSE of SUVs and the many other wasteful factors of western culture.
Your argument is like saying "There's lots of people dying in the world anyway, so it doesn't matter if I kill this guy here".
Yes, there might be elements that pollute MORE, such as aircraft or the production of cars, but realistically there is little that you individually can do about that. However, your choice of car is entirely up to you. SUVs do pollute more than regular cars, so if you do not drive an SUV you are polluting less. Not polluting at all is unrealistic, especially if you require a car for daily transport, but you can easily pollute less.
Japanese cars are well known to be the most fuel efficient (and DaimlerChrysler are the least, but Ford have made leaps and bounds going well beyond federal requirements for emissions on its trucks). I don't have a car, and I don't really have any intention of getting a car anytime soon (though I do plan to get a liscence after I turn 17, in a few days!), I like walking and we have a good bus system around here.
When I do I think I shall try to get a Japanese car.

Hahaha, ubuu, once again I did not even have to look at the name to know who posted that. You are like black enough for the both of us!

<3

------------------
"She turned me into a newt!"
Pause
"Well I got better..."

Yeah, yeah. I know, I know. But the amount of resources SUVs eat was being discussed, so I though I would throw that in there.



------------------
Our very existence is at stake