http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/26/train.derailment/index.html

I wish the b****** had died....

What he did was thoughtless and he killed at least 12 people. I hope he burns.

I heard about that today on KFI radio. Yeah, he definitely needs to be charged criminally.

Thats screwed up.

I think they should punish murderers based on their crime. They should run him over with a train...

He should have to sit in a room for the rest of his life with a plastic knife, and absolutelly NO means to kill himself. He'll get just enough food to live, and all of it liquid form, so he can't choke, and drowning won't be physically possible. He'll live his life lacking the reason to live, nor the means to die.

This is a form of punishment that far exceeds the need for a death penalty. Not for moral reasons, but it's far more realistic of a punishment.

JediKirby

The guy obviously wants to kill himself - but lacks the courage to do so. So, in essence, a death penalty wouldn't actually be a punishment at all for him. A capital punishment would be like a reward. A suitable punisment would indeed be an imprisonment for life.

Damned *****.

Keep it G-rated, please... -DSettahr

We all know just how great you are at committing suicide.

Suicide has never been something that I could comprehend. If life sucks I can get down some but then I say, "I'll get over it." I never could understand why anyone would want to commit suicide.

Then you must have not been around someone who wants to commit suicide and the mental troubles they face.

What would that actually achieve, though? Other than satisfying your lust for torture.

Simply allowing him to end his life would be the logical process for all involved.

Some of you people might need counceling even more than this guy. He failed a stupid attempt at suicide, and accidently killed 12-ish people in the process. It's not like he intetionally derailed those trains to kill these people. He needs therapy, and you savages just want him dead. What exactly will that accomplish other than destroying more innocent lives and satisfying your primitive bloodlust? What's next, should we crucify and burn people alive for being depressed? Or maybe we could kill the engineers of the world trade center for incompetence, a la Darth Vader?

so did he

You obviously must have a pretty good life, or have never faced depression. He needs to be punished but I also think he should be phyciatricaly evaluated and possibly helped... he's sick, just like someone with a physical sickness he needs help. Of course there is always conseqenses for your actions... but is he deserving of the worst possible death imaginable or is he just sick and couldn't control his actions on an emotional level? I guess it's up the legal system to decide now.

The man was intelligent enough to perfectly operate a vehicle, and based on the article, he has been able to achieve many other things during his life. These past actions clearly demonstrate he's not so stupid he could not understand the possible consequences of parking a big car on railway tracks. And he was even "intelligent" enough to save himself. Thus, he's 100% eligible for what ever punisment such a mass murderer deserves.

And your comment regarding the engineers of WTC has no relevance at all considering this matter. I can't imagine what made you say such a thing. (And just for your knowledge, Darth Vader and all the happenings of SW are purely fictional).

my point was that it's not right that he lived and 12 uninvolved others had died instead for something that was entirely his fault.

so if he didnt die and the others did doesnt that mean nobody won.... its lose lose

I agree.
"There but for the grace of god, go I"

The WTC towers were fine until they were hit..

If someone slams into your car and kills someone, should we sue the corporation who manufactured the sheet metal on the car, because it should've been stronger?

I agree with Flex, except for the comment about the WTC. This man needs help. Executing him, or locking him up in a place where he cannot recieve counseling, will not make the world a better place.



Have you ever driven a car? There are people out there driving around who do pretty crazy and idiotic things.

I was listening to the details on KFI radio (AM 640 for those who can get it). On the John and Ken show they had the D.A. for Los Angeles on discussing what charges might be filed. He said that they are looking into filing 2nd degree murder charges. He also said that there is the possibility of this could carry the death penalty.

Realistically: He won't be executed. I could put 93% certainty on that. In all likelyhood, the defense will plead insanity. That'll probably bring reduced sentences

Here's the KFI news story

And it should..

Insane people shouldn't be treated the same as normal people.

If another guy intentionally set up a bomb on the tracks, and detonated it, derailing it and killing the people.. should that recieve the same sentence as the guy that tries to kill himself but ends up accidentally derailing the train and killing people? That's the question you really need to ask.

I hate train wrecks because everyone baffles on about how trains are unsafe.

There are thousands of car crashes every day! It's just the fact that train crashes are well documented

That's right. Because insane people with violent tendencies can be even more dangerous than sane people, because their actions can be hard to predict.


Well, from a certain point of view that man did place a bomb on the tracks. The fact that he was so self-centered he didn't stop to think what might happen to the train and people inside it in his "perfect" suicide effort should be an aggravating circumstance. If somebody leaves his car on purpose on tracks, and something happens to the train, I would hardly call that accidental,

But unless you can get inside the mind of this guy, who is clearly somewhat crazy, you are in no position to assume he had any intent to harm anyone.

It's possible that he just didn't care about the passengers, or maybe he just simply couldn't comprehend what would happen. We don't know.

There is almost always another side to the story, I prefer to reserve any real judgement until i've heard it. In this case I doubt I will, so i'm going to have to just going with condolences for family of the victims.

Yes, there is that, I would think an insane person might well be more dangerous, but that probably depends on them. No, the significant point is that they can't be blamed for being insane. It's not their fault for being insane, so they can't really be 'punished' for their actions, they can only be helped,

This opens a big debate about whether suicidal tendancies actually are insanity, or whether you can be rationally suicidal.

Well, that's true. I can't argue with it.


Well, the basic programmin of all life is to procreate and self-preserve, so you could say anything that goes against those two would be insanity.

I believe suicide to be a very selfish act. This, though, takes that and runs with it to the end of the world. How can someone be so selfish that they would do this? He needs help, then he needs to be punished. Sad sad days

Why couldn't the dude just go to some sort of garage and gas himself to death with the fumes.

I look at it like this: the guy was stupid to put innocent lives in danger because he wanted to end his life. I would guess he was being whiny to himself and wanted to die in a huge tragedy to draw attention to his death. If that is true, then that's one of those selfish suicide acts and yeah, he should be prosecuted.

I think it's ludicrous to say all suicide is selfish though and anybody who says so is really really close-minded on the issue.

Suicide is something I've had plenty of time to think about, and anyone who simply assumes I don't know anything about and that I'm close minded should maybe take into account that they don't know about my life.

It's a very personal thing, and not something I'm willing to talk about to anyone here. But to get my point across...I've been there and back.

With hind-sight on the situation, it was a very selfish thing to try and do. Noone really thinks about how it's going to affect anyone but themselves. You leave behind a family, friends, a future, an entire world. You will be missed, and it won't always be possible for family and friends to recover from the loss. Sure, this isn't always the case because you may not have family or friends...but a majority of the time you do.

So, I guess, if you get consent from your friends and family beforehand then yeah it's not selfish. But I know I didn't, and I know now exactly how selfish it would have been.

You may call me close-minded, but I'm close-minded with first hand experience. Of course, with things such as this, it's impossible for everyone to see eye-to-eye.

A lack of common sense and cairlessness is punishable, in my mind. Depressed or no. His depression isn't even the focus here, it's only involved. I think the only question that needs to be asked is: How many people died, and could it have been prevented? A misjudgement is far from a careless act. If the person was concience of what they did, and attempted to avoid the situation, a lesser charge should be administered. If the person is conscience of what they're doing, but lack the care to tell what they're doing will endanger, and most likelly kill someone... punishable.

JediKirby

Well, that's just it. At the time, he was suicidal, therefor insane, therefor not able to think rationally, so he wasn't conscious of his actions. This is assuming that suicide is always irrational, and though it is hugely debatable I think the legal status at the moment is that it is.



So anyone that declares celibacy is also insane? This would cover all monks and nuns. And homosexuals.

Humans don't have 'basic programming', the ability to 'go against' what other creatures would have as basic programming is the unique feature that led to our survival. So I don't think that is a very good definition. Whether that even is the 'basic programming of all life' is certainly questionable.

Very very good point.



[edit: added quote tags to clear up any confusion -JL]

The man is guilty of complete disregard for the consequenses of his actions. His apathy killed 11 people. That is quite a crime in my book.

He isn't guilty of murder of any degree. It is "manslaughter". This is of course assuming you can hold a suicidal person accountable for a crime with such weight.

What isn't rational is seeking revenge instead of justice. It isn't just for someone to go to jail for the rest of their lives for an act they didn't consciencely commit. Especially when suicidal mindset prevents so-called "common-sense."

I've been around many people who've wanted to commit suicide and have had to work with a few of them. I personally see it as a selfish thing to do. And with most of the cases of this I've seen with suicide these "mental troubles" are just self inflicted whether it be a strange way of recieving attention ("people attend funerals" - actually that was a reason given to me by a friend who wanted to commit suicide) or just don't understand that death is final (like the 13 year old girl that just wanted to be dead until she was 18.)

Anyways, he should have realized that even if he died, his car was going to do something to the train which would most likely effect the passengers. It's even more selfish of him to put the lives at other at risk, not just his own.

And why do you think we have that "unique feature" that allows us to "go against" that basic programming? To quote one individual you will believe:

And what is our survival as a species? To survive is to procreate and self-preserve...

If there are individuals who fight those two rules, they simply drop away. War does not miss one man, after all, nor does evolution. As a species we are not yet going against the basic programming. We just know it's there.

But then again, biology doesn't even try to define insanity.

Since when has irrational thought implied no conscious recognition of one's thoughts?



How are homosexuals inherently celibate?

Yeah, I thought the fact that they aren't is the thing that is making people upset.

There has been no trial set. Thus he cannot be guilty in a legal sense. Sure most of us think that he deserves some punishment.

Update: He's been slapped with 11 counts of murder charges. I haven't heard any manslaughter charges yet.