Ok, i'm kind of pissed.

I just got my paycheck in the mail, and a very signifigant portion has been taken out in taxes. I hate paying taxes to the government on things like gas, but I really hate the FICA tax (social security) and the withholdings for federal income tax. Now, i know that some taxes are necessary, but this is ridiculous. The founding fathers would probably be apalled at the rate at which we are taxed.

I don't know about you, but I don't intend to pay a chunk of my income as taxes all my life. I work too damn hard for my money to have a lot of it forcefully redistributed. I could in theory take a second job to make up for it, but I'd get taxed even more on that second paycheck. Our current system apparently has it so the harder you work, the more you lose. Fortunately, I've heard of a better way.


I know someone who is in real estate investing (who has taught me a lot) , and he makes most of his money from the properties that he owns in the form of rent. He runs everything through a holding corporation he set up, and the beauty of that is tax is deferred until after expenses. this means that he gets to pay all his expenses before paying taxes on what is left. That's a much better approach, IMO. It's a legal tax shelter, and when I get into real estate investing, I plan to make use of this shelter myself.

I'm probably going to piss off a lot of the socialist-leaning people here, but so be it. Post what you hate the most about the government.

This is all too familiar....Demon_Nightmare, where are you!

You do know that if you still live with/are supported by your parents, you're exempt from having taxes taken out of your paycheck, right?

Everything.

What do I hate most about the govt'? hmmm.... I don't like how when I go to the post office and try to use the pen on the little chain but no ink comes out of it. It really ticks me off. What is the big deal about refilling the damn pen? huh? I planned on writing a sternly worded letter to the postmaster general about it, but I haven't gotten around to it with all the top-secret work I'm doing for NASA.

At least we get most of it back at the end of the financial year in tax return form.

Hurrah for the everything back tax bracket. Well, everything except social security and medicare.

I rather like withholding. It means that much less you have to worry about come April.

Oh, I came in thread and started reading because I thought it said Texas, instead of taxes.

I WAS about to whoop someone's ***, but, my mistake.

Indeed it is...the other thread was Texas too.

I'm not saying I love taxes or anything, but we all pay it. There are loopholes and such that allow you to do stuff like that (For example - if you're going to sell stock and later buy it again - just make sure you buy it again after 31 days have passed. Then you can claim the loss...etc)

However, everyone complains that the IRC is too complex - 1000's of sections, etc. The only reason it is so complex is because people keep finding gaps that allow them to take deductions and stuff. Eventually it gets abused and the IRS must adapt. Note, its not the fact people are using the code as it was intended. It's because people find it and then modify their circumstances to fit it.

How many people have heard the whole "Buy an SUV! Deduct part of the cost on your taxes" etc. There's this whole limit on 6000 pound automobiles, and SUV's pass it. But the whole rule is mainly to help farmers - yet now people are abusing it (you're supposed to use the vehicle more than 50% for business also). So I predict we'll probably see the IRS change the rule for that - unless gas prices make demand for them fall.

I agree with what you're saying Page. My method is actually for a flat tax myself. In other words - you pay the same percentage no matter how much you make. Ex: 10% rate. You make $100, $10 in tax. You make $1000, $100 in tax. It's the most fair in my opinion. Currently it's like 10%-35%. So (just using the extremes), you only make $100, $10 in taxes. You make $1000, $350 in taxes.

I just hate the concept of working more and more only to see smaller and smaller gains. How many people have known people to get a raise and actually make less money since they go up to the next bracket? I know them - and it happened to me when I worked at Kroger long ago.

That's just me though!

When you move up a bracket you only pay the higher rate on income in that bracket. Every single filer pays 10% on his first ~$7,000, 15% on the amount between ~$7,000 and ~$30,000, and so on.

The only time you'll lose money by moving up is if your increase in income causes you to no longer qualify for a credit or deduction.



You're very, very confused. The major tax incentives of real estate investing are simply the deductions available for taxes, utilities, maintenance, and, most importantly, depreciation. The land appreciates while you take sizeable depreciation deductions for the building, which means free money.

Anyway, "paying expenses before paying taxes" isn't a "tax shelter"; it's something all businesses do. There are strict rules on what can be deducted, and if you get too fancy the IRS will destroy you. You don't just get to piss away most of your money on personal stuff and then pay taxes on what's left.

And if this guy is getting breaks on his personal taxes, he has an LLC or sole proprietorship, not a corporation.

Tell me about it, I'm about to write the IRS a check for $15,000 >:( And what you're talking about isn't really a "tax shelter" - that's how all businesses calculate tax. You only pay tax on your net income, and what that means is that you take out all your expenses and then they charge you tax based on what's left. You can do it with any business, not just real estate investing. For example, I work from home and I'm an independent contractor. Any business expense (which means any money I pay out for the sole purpose of maintaining the business) is tax deductable. I get to deduct a portion of my rent since I have a home office. I get to deduct computer equipment, office equipment, office supplies, etc. If I travelled to clients' I could deduct money for mileage.

The whole system sucks, but flat taxes suck too. For instance, in WA state, I have to pay excise tax because I'm considered a small business. WA doesn't recognize any deductables, so I basically pay a tax on my GROSS INCOME. So, even if I was losing money, I'd *still* have to pay tax. Don't even ask how that works, I have no idea!

This is not true.

What I meant is, if your Parents still claim you as a dependant on their tax filings. I think if you make more than $10,000 a year though, you aren't exempt.

I swear to Christ if any one of you ever complains about poor public schools, poor police forces, poor medical services, or any criticism of tax-sponsered federal programs.. I will come and shoot you in the face.

fishstickz = winner



It's whatever the lowest tax bracket is. You get back everything but Social Security.

I thought it was about Texas until this post... >.<

And ah.... I will probably be working for the government next year...

/me runs away

The IRS seems to think they still need money from me, though.

I'm almost positive you have to file -- minimum standard deduction (if you cannot claim yourself as a dependent) is $4850, IIRC. So..if you make less than or equal to that, you get everything back.

Does the government know about your Soviet past?

methinks you all need to check out the taxes other countries take out. In comparison, the US has it VERY EASY. Britain has insane tax amounts, in which many cases you will never see 90% of your paycheck.

I hate taxes just as much as the next person, but you have to realize what they are used for.

Or misused for.

Compared to any socialist county, the US definitely has it easy. Taxes here in Canada are insane. Luckily as a student I get most of them back.

I just got $1060 from the Federal government this morning, and I'll be getting about $1300 from the Provincial soon.

Yeah, I heard that your income tax rate is about 53%, with an additional 15% as sales tax.

That would probably cause an insurrection here in America.

I got taxed about 30% of my salary, but I wasn't making very much. As soon as you go over $30 000/year, the taxes cut out everything.

Sales taxes here in Québec are 7% ferderal and 7.5% provincial, compounded, coming about to about 15%.

You're paying for services. Stop whining. You're probably not even paying enough to break even with society.

>.>
<.<
>.>

I'm trying to play that down a bit...

HEIL STALIN.

Yes, because everyone knows 99% of our taxes are misused, and never see schools, roads, fire departments, police departments, etc.

The thing I hate most about the government is the bureaucracy.

but I don't use most of these services. Ideally, You shouldn't be forced to pay for something that you don't use.

The thruth is, you have no idea what tax funded services you use and how mch they cost.

Mr. Compassion, everyone.

In your "ideal" situation, people would be taxed an incredibly large amount. God only knows how much it would cost to fund a department that kept track of who used what.

The government doesn't even know what costs what!

Yeah, stick it to the man! Those mother ****ers stealin' my money and spending it on roads and other bull****! I never use that crap so why should I have to pay for it!

Page, what about the military? You don't "use" it, persay, but that doesn't mean you don't benefit from it.

I was referring to things like social security. SS is probably doomed, whether people want to admit it or not. I highly doubt it will be available in 50 years or so when I retire, so we should gradually phase it out now, b/c we are getting screwed b/c we are paying for it and we will probably never see benefits from it. SS is the largest financial drain on the government, and eliminating it (or fully privatizing it) would alleviate some of that burden.

I don't have a problem with using taxes to fund roads, utilities, the military, etc. What I have a problem with is things like my state spending something like 5 million on artwork for a local PRISON. I have problems when our lawmakers who get elected for 4 years all of a sudden have LIFETIME salaries and aren't subject to social security like the rest of us. I have problems I see my hard-earned money wasted on crappy lawsuits like that one against martha stewart while real criminals like child molesters get offered plea deals and get let back on the streets.

You guys can piss and moan about about great taxes are but the fact is I DON'T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT. I don't trust them when I see them throwing people in jail for 6 years because they were caught with a joint and 10 minutes later letting a convicted child rapist go free after 6 months. They spend billions renovating the capital building and approving freaking personal chefs for STATE LAWMAKERS while our prisons are too full to keep the damn rapists and murderers locked up. It's freaking ridiculous, and I challenge you to actually LOOK at how much of your money they spend on roads compared to how much they spend on other crap.

And are you writing letters to your local congressmen?

My local congressman is one of the ones voting to increase their personal salary while at the same time cutting benefits for other state workers. You think he gives a damn about me? Do you honestly think writing a letter to a congressperson will have any effect? hah!

My point is, if I don't trust the government, why would I want to give them more tax money than they already get? I'm already paying 22% of my income JUST to the feds, and with property taxes, sales tax, excise tax, gas tax, use tax, etc., who knows how much goes to the state. People are on this thread pissing and moaning about how we should be happy to pay more taxes and that's complete and utter BS.

But you haven't even tried to take any action by mailing your congressman.

That's like saying you should never ask out girls because chances are they will say no.

Page: Public school? Twelve years cost your state from $60,000 to $100,000. Come back in a decade and we can start talking about the roads, prisons, hospitals, et cetera.

Chances are, you'll die in debt to your government, the balance paid by richer people.

And Social Security is fine for another 35 years. Eliminating the payroll tax cap would extend that deadline by, um, forever.

Brian: I don't know about Washington or where ever, but Illinois has a state budget of $52 billion after vicious cuts, and prison population of 50,000. $5 million dollars would be .0096% of the total budget, $100 per inmate, and 40¢ per resident. Compared to the ~$13 billion spent on public education (~25% of the budget, ~$1000 per resident), I'd be perfectly fine with a burglar getting to see a color other than institutional green at my expense.

It sounds to me that you lost sight of scale somewhere. Work out how much the fat is actually costing you personally and you'll never complain again.