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ForumsDiscussion Forum → The Lord of The Rings
123
The Lord of The Rings
2005-05-01, 5:43 PM #81
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill
This discussion is over.


While I'm sure you put a lot of time and effort into that rebuttal, perhaps you could clear up some of your counterpoints to his counterpoints?
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2005-05-01, 5:49 PM #82
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill
And Flirbnic, I only act like an ******* if someone else acts like an idiot. Cut down on the daily ignorance, and I'll cut down on the bitterness.


I didn't accuse you of doing anything of the sort! This is all just a satirical act, isn't it? ;)
I'm just a little boy.
2005-05-01, 5:50 PM #83
I have done point counterpoint several times already in this thread. I do not want to do it again. He does not agree. I can not see any way a reasonable person would not see my point, therefore I am attributing his disagreement to being a die hard fan of the movies. It is pointless to attempt to sway someone whom cannot be swayed. I don't see any reason to continue talking about this to MB.
>>untie shoes
2005-05-01, 5:52 PM #84
Quote:
Originally posted by Flirbnic
I didn't accuse you of doing anything of the sort! This is all just a satirical act, isn't it? ;)


No I'm acting like a real ******* here.

It would be nice if someone would change my custom title, because it's not really true at this point. I can remember a long time ago I said something to someone about how I'm almost always just kidding.

Personally I think my custom title should say something along the lines of "Shut up. You're wrong." because it reflects my personality much better.
>>untie shoes
2005-05-01, 5:52 PM #85
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill
Uh, MB you asked me to explain what I said. I did. To me, you're wrong, and very ignorant.


I fail to see how I'm ignorant considering I explained how i felt about everything. Also, if I'm wrong, tell me why instead of just shouting out random opinions that dont even really make sense to me.

But whatever. Keep thinking you're right if you want. Doesnt bother me.
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2005-05-01, 5:53 PM #86
Sometimes when I disagree with someone, we agree to disagree and then we have hot sex.
Detty. Professional Expert.
Flickr Twitter
2005-05-01, 5:54 PM #87
You want to have sex with Bill?
2005-05-01, 5:54 PM #88
I said "sometimes".
Detty. Professional Expert.
Flickr Twitter
2005-05-01, 5:54 PM #89
:D
2005-05-01, 5:56 PM #90
I can't see why he wouldn't.



MB, I'm just saying that because I so strongly disagree with your opinion, you seem ignorant. The same way I seem ignorant to you. I went into a very specific tirade on the second page about why I don't like the movies. You disagree. I disagree with you. I seem ignorant to you. You seem ignorant to me. This is very simple. I don't see what the big problem is.
>>untie shoes
2005-05-01, 5:57 PM #91
LMAO @ my new title. I love it.
>>untie shoes
2005-05-01, 6:01 PM #92
Theres a difference between ignorance and arrogance.

MB (and 99.9% of people who watch movies) isignorant of this technical how the scene should be chopped up stuff.

You're being very arrogant. You're analysing the films from a technical standpoint, and because you dont get any enjoyment out of the films doing that, you cant contemplate how anyone else can enjoy the films any other way. Really, just because you dont like a film, doesnt make it a bad film.

It's a good film, if it entertains people. That's what it does. That's what it's supposed to do.

Now you're just digging yourself into a hole which is making yourself look more and more moronic.
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2005-05-01, 6:04 PM #93
I don't understand why everyone has such a problem with this. I have my reasons why I don't like the movie. He has his reasons why he does. We don't agree. I don't feel like explaining this any further, because he obviously does not see where I am coming from. So I might as well stop, because I'm not going to get anywhere.
>>untie shoes
2005-05-01, 6:09 PM #94
You really don't get it do you?

He sees where you're coming from, he just disagrees. However you just think he's ignorant.

He is granting you a right to an opinion, you are not granting him the right to an opinion. By saying he's ignorant and his opinion is wrong is tantamount to being outright disrespectful and insulting.

It's also a very difficult mindset to change, you either accept the merits of other people's opinions or you don't.
Detty. Professional Expert.
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2005-05-01, 6:16 PM #95
See, your arguments don't make as much sense as you think they do. You have such a strong emotional aversion to LotR that you're trying too hard to invent 'factual' reasons to say it's bad. You've come up with all these technical flaws and convinced yourself they're real and significant, and they stand out to you because you want them to, but to us, they don't exist, and they really don't matter.
Comparing Gollum to Jar Jar is silly. He's clearly more like Yoda. They're both short wrinkly creatures with pointy ears and endearingly idiosyncratic speech (as opposed to Jar Jar's obnoxious and possibly racist dialect). And then you went on to admit Gollum has a complex personality, which completely contradicts the Jar Jar analogy.
What's wrong with a bad character being 'just bad'? Nothing. It could be said that making a bad character seem good is just a gimmicky cliché, no?

Also, what Detty said.
I'm just a little boy.
2005-05-01, 6:31 PM #96
I think Bill, as well as others on this thread, need to calm down, but he does have a point.

The movies are enjoyable, yes, but they are not spectacular from a more critical standpoint. There really is little character development, many of the points that are supposed to be moving are built out of sentimental cliches and amplified by overripe music, and the pacing is bad. Although, on the last point, I have to disagree with Bill; I thought that (in RotK), too much was happening, not too little. Every 10 minutes it felt like a new conflict was being resolved, so I would have liked to see a little more downtime. A lack of action in TTT may not be entirely the movie's fault; a lot of that came over from the book, which I always thought was the most slowly paced and uneventful (i.e. boring, if that's what you're reading for) of the three.

The movies weren't as stellar as some people would like to say they are. Neither were the books, for that matter. (Yet I enjoy them both anyway; don't get me wrong.)



As to whoever was responding to my earlier comments, I never said anything about the purpose of books being to prove some people are smart because they 'get' them. On the contrary, I don't particularly enjoy modernist authors like Joyce that are so cryptic you need several degrees to understand them. On the other hand, I don't think that the sole purpose of books should be surface-level enjoyment. There's something else to be appreciated in LotR, namely the artistry with which Tolkien put together his Arda. Just don't read LotR if you expect simple enjoyment of the plot and so on; it won't work. Don't read Heart of Darkness expecting that, either, but don't suppose to claim that it isn't great literature.

er, I'm lost now, so I hope I said everything that I wanted to say. :(
2005-05-01, 6:44 PM #97
I don't have some emotional aversion to LotR. I used to think they were 3 of the best movies ever made. Then it dawned on me one day that they're not really that good.

And of course I feel like MB is ignorant. I'm sure he feels like I'm ignorant too. It's not a bad thing. I could be saying worse things to him than "I feel you are ignorant because you do not see why this movie isn't very good."
>>untie shoes
2005-05-01, 6:46 PM #98
Actually no, I was going more along the lines with what detty said.
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2005-05-01, 6:49 PM #99
But it's against the nature of disagreement to not think the opposition is ignorant in some way. If we do not agree, then obviously I feel that I have knowledge you do not, which causes me to have my opinion as opposed to your's. If you had that knowledge as well, in theory, you too would share my opinion. It is impossible for me to not think you're ignorant. If you think about it, it's impossible for you not to think I'm ignorant.
>>untie shoes
2005-05-01, 6:49 PM #100
I really liked Bill's critique, but I fear he has utterly missed the point.

But it would be too much work to say why. SO instead, here's something on TTT.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/lord_of_the_rings_the_two_towers

202 reviewers, of whom i suspect most know what they are talking about.

197 gave it the thumbs up.

O and the millions of adoring fans of course.

[EDIT: Hey, this is my 500th post it seems! Where's my cake???]
My blog! http://rpg-rant.blogspot.com/
2005-05-01, 6:57 PM #101
Quote:
Originally posted by ShiningTed
I really liked Bill's critique, but I fear he has utterly missed the point.

But it would be too much work to say why. SO instead, here's something on TTT.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/lord_of_the_rings_the_two_towers

202 reviewers, of whom i suspect most know what they are talking about.

197 gave it the thumbs up.

O and the millions of adoring fans of course.

[EDIT: Hey, this is my 500th post it seems! Where's my cake???]


To me, critics are for crap. They give things like THHGTTG bad reviews, and are just generally not a good representation of anything. That's just to me.
D E A T H
2005-05-01, 6:59 PM #102
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/hitchhikers_guide_to_the_galaxy/

It's got a 62% average. 124 reviewers who probably know what they're talking about.

I know many members of this board really liked that movie. Reviews don't mean anything.

JFK, to me, is the greatest movie of all time, and it doesn't have millions of fans.

EDIT: Damn you Yoshi, you beat me to it.
>>untie shoes
2005-05-01, 7:01 PM #103
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/hitchhikers_guide_to_the_galaxy/

It's got a 62% average. 124 reviewers who probably know what they're talking about.


Movie critics are those who failed at being filmmakers. They may "know" what they're talking about, but they'd be damned if they can do any of it.
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2005-05-01, 7:03 PM #104
I was just making reference to the fact that he said the critics knew what they were talking about when they reviewed TTT... It's sarcasm.
>>untie shoes
2005-05-01, 7:08 PM #105
Quote:
But it's against the nature of disagreement to not think the opposition is ignorant in some way. If we do not agree, then obviously I feel that I have knowledge you do not, which causes me to have my opinion as opposed to your's. If you had that knowledge as well, in theory, you too would share my opinion. It is impossible for me to not think you're ignorant. If you think about it, it's impossible for you not to think I'm ignorant.


When I'm debating with someone who disagrees with me, I never write off their difference in opinion as ignorance by default. I even consider the possibility that 'I' am the one who is ignorant. I think that you would benefit by doing the same. MB was very respectful and his questions were all quite valid.

Personally, I think that your point of view is rather elitist and that 99% of the world most likely disagrees with you. However, with your line of reasoning, that still makes you right. Those little movie rules that you cited are insignificant to most people, but I guess we're all just sheeple and can't possibly fathom the intricacies of just how bad the movies we enjoy actually are.
2005-05-01, 7:10 PM #106
You don't know how close that is to the truth.
>>untie shoes
2005-05-02, 9:33 PM #107
Pfft, I prefer the short version of the full trilogy.

Raynar
Pagewizard_YKS: "making your own lightsaber doesn't make you a nerd... "
Raynar - the man with a 10.75" ePenis
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