I agree. The idea as I understand it has much the same merits as an exchange student program: broadening one's horizons, etc. The main problem is that race isn't a real problem anymore, except in the minds of a few ignorant rednecks and a whole lot of concerned liberals. The real problem is one of culture, not race. Put a black/asian/mexican/whatever guy in a suit and tie, teach him perfect English, and the worst he'll get are a few glances and an inappropriate joke or two. Put a pasty white kid in "gangsta" clothes and teach him "gangsta" speech, he'll get pretty much the same reaction as anyone of any other race doing the same.

The problem is one of culture and poverty. The fact that members of certain races make up the majority of certain American subcultures is a co-incidence of history, not a result of current racist policies.

Not all black people are urban thugs, and not all mexicans are impoverished immigrants. This policy, however, treats them as though they are. And that's what real racism is: the automatic assumption that all people who look the same also act the same and have the same needs and problems and etc. How much melanin you have in your skin doesn't make you any more or less advantaged or disadvantaged than anyone else. It's your culture and how much money you have.

Um, this is called integration, prodigies. Segregation is its complete opposite.

I see no problem with it. When all public schools are equally good, it won't matter. Until they are, it gives the white enclaves a reason to support the other city schools. Meanwhile, it gives kids access to the full spectrum of appearances, cultures, and socioeconomic backgrounds.

After all, only hardcore racists can't handle a culturally white black person. The soft bigots only freak when someone has the audacity to look different and act different.

Please, stop using "white" and "random minority" as synonyms for "rich" and "poor". It's not true. If they're doing this for economic reasons, they should use economics as the criterion for choosing the kids, not race. The only conceivable excuse they could have for this is wanting to break down racial stereotypes among the students, which is stupid unless they have a serious problem with racism. If the students were spouting off racial slurs all the time, and something needed to be done, I could understand, but no-one's mentioned anything about that. It's all been economics.

We're the ERACISTS!

i hait angry black women.
/but the rest of them are fine.


question: why is it rong to be racest? why is it rong to want to see and promote my race of people?

It's not wrong to like white people. It's wrong to dislike black/otherly-coloured people.

... Holy moly.

Instead of you-know-what, have a smiley:

And I hate stupid white girls who can't spell.
/ But the rest of them are FINNNNEE as hell.

You wrote all of that, which was very well written, to say you are a racist, but we should except that because you got a great education, should have been taught better but its somehow NOT your fault? Yay?

Not exactly. We are in part what our environments make us. That part of me, I consider environmentally imposed, and I really don't think having some racist views is anyone's 'fault', be it mine or anyone else's.

If someone has to take responsibility for my views, I'm obviously the man to do so, but just because I have some ideas that may be considered racist doesn't mean that I go about actually doing anything hurtful with them. If anything, they only serve to make me feel awkward or distant in what would otherwise be normal situations.

Let's just say that I'm working on it. I'm not going to change the way in which I view other people in general instantly, it will take time.

The second half of my post served to point out the oxymoron of teaching students to think critically and yet teaching certain ideas as unquestionable.

You aren't going to change. If you resent a black kid getting admiration and encouragement for doing something good, you are beyond help.



True, but your examples are just ridiculous. I would expect that from someone who isnt from a affulent surrounding, or maybe some black kid whooped you *** one time and took your wallet, but this is just dumb, but obviously my trust in America has failed me once again. Good luck with your "changing" process. I would advise to start off..not being jealous of succcessful black people. Just a start.

[EDIT]



When it comes to you being a succesfful man one day, and you have to choose to hire between a minority and a white man, even when the black person has higher credentials, your so called "views" will prevent the black man from flourishing. THAT IS HURTFUL

If this is to improve local communities through better education, I don't understand why they don't just restructure the ghetto schools.

I think you're underestimating the magnitude to which racism still persists. And I mean real racism, not 'political correctness got mad!!'. It's going to be a long time before whitey sees the same sort of persecution that blacks did only 50 years ago. The same 'traditional' viewpoints of that time still exist today. Yes, much of the problem is going to be helped as old people die out, and their outlook dies with them, but we need an extra 'push' to redress the balance.
No, 'affirmitive action' isn't a solution in itself, and changing attitudes is by far more important. But giving them that extra 'push' will help them improve themselves. It would probably happen by itself, without 'affirmitive action', just a whole lot slower.



Because improving public services requires higher taxes, which so many Americans are morbidly afraid of despite the improvements it offers.

I must just be hated, cause I have said the exact same things before, im another Affirmative Action thread, and got my *** hammered for no reason

I'm beyond help, then, am I? Then I suppose there's no point in changing my views. You're merely galvanizing me in the opposite direction.



I'm jealous of successful people in general. Call it a character flaw or call it ambition. And your judgement of my dislike of a black kid you don't even know but I do is evidence of *your* stereotyping, not mine.



I don't find it at all reassuring that you're so dead set in the inability of people to change for what, at least to your viewpoint, would be the better.

Way to pre-judge me.

You flat out came out and said you are what most would call a racist...We are just supposed to hug you cause you are man enough to admit?


*Here here to Gris, the man who acknowledge he is a closet racist. Let's give him a round of applause for coming out.

Come on.

You said:



If it is merely innocent ambition, why did you go out of your way to be hurt when HE did something well, yet you minded your own business elsewhere. Ambition is using someone else accomplishments to give you a drive to do better. But that fact that you were just insulted by his wealth of success, is not good ambition. And obviously you thought this was an important point to make and not something out of the norm, or you wouldnt have said it.

This is my last post on this thread, and just a clarifying one, as I'd rather not be the subject of further flaming...



I was merely adding my opinion to an ongoing discussion, but for the benefit of the readers, I decided to preface that with a short description of where I'm coming from. I found it interesting how racist ideas can still exist, and the sometimes ignorant, sometimes logical ways in which they arise and spread. I thought that perhaps this might itnerest other members of this discussion and the community at large, hence I posted in the first place. That's the consequece of a discussion: people provide their opinions. If you don't like that, make an announcement.

I'm not looking for your pity, and I expected your criticism.

Nope, if I don't like it, I post my opinion. It is a sad topic, and frankly, I see your walk off as a walk of shame. I haven't really flamed you, only replied to your post with a lot emoition, that I don't usually experience. But hey, I would be embarrased if I were you too. Im just another black persn on your list.. Can't help that I run faster then you. See ya.

i don't like a lot of black people.

i don't like a lot of white people.

does that make me a smurf?

Yes. Yes it does.

i grew up in a school system that was at least 85 black. in elementary school it wasnt really that noticable. they were just other kids that looked different. my best friend in kindergarten was a black kid who lived up the street from me. then i changed schools to a different but very similar school(like same floorplan and everything, just down the road from the other school) where again a black kid was just another kid. in fact in elementary school, i was never picked on by the black kids. it was the white kids who picked on me.

then i moved away for 2 years, to a school with 2 black kids in it from the same family. redneck northwestern ohio fisher-folk. they werent really like bigots or anything. i never saw the one kid in my grade get preferential treatment nor was he neglected, shunned or anything. he was one of the more popular kids. i was picked on by white kids again, but then who else was there to pick on me.

but then i moved back to the first area. starting school again in middle school. here were the same kids i was in k-4th grade with, but now all of a sudden, the black kids wanted nothing to do with me. i was different (chubby geeky boy with glasses) and i was to be hated. i had very few friends in middle school. but they were about 50/50 white/black. it still wasnt that big a deal. i had one conflict with a black kid, over some rediculous accident, which i think to this day he resents me for.

and so i reach high school. i didnt mention, but my school system is just over the line from lower class schools to middle class. so we had people who were poor, and people who i call the "upper middle class" and everyone in between.

freshman year, i have a lot of problems with black kids(most of whom i ignore, mainly because i had no interest in talking to. they didnt talk about things that interested me.) picking on me, and generally giving me a hard time. i still had friends both black and white, but the white group was growing, as other friends started to try to fit in with the rest of their "minority group" and stopped hanging out with me. in the spring of freshman year i was sitting in my grandmothers front yard and three black guys walk across the street and one of them comes up to me and says "Are you Robert Gibson?" i tell him yes. he says "how could you, man? how could you?" and then decks me in the face, and runs off to the park across the street. to this day i have no idea what the hell he was talking about.

i try not to judge others before i get to know them. but the whole gangsta culture thing makes me nervous, for the above reasons. i will be a little nervous around you if you look the look talk the talk and walk the walk, just becase of past experiances with people like that. but i will talk to you, and make up my mind about you when i know something about you. i dont tolerate stupidity. or rather self inflicted ignorance. i dont understand how someone can not want to learn.

does this make me a racist? because i was ostracised in my youth for being a smart white kid? i'm only 20 years old, still forming opinions of the world. everyone pre-judges someone for some reason. be it past experiance what they were taught or whatever. its human nature. its the degree to wich you let those pre-judgements affect your final judgements that says if you're a racist or not.

this is long and rambly, and i have no real way of ending this post so its just going to stop here.

You and Gris is a totally different scenario. It is totally understanable in your position. But you clarified yourself saying you still would talk to a person and give them a chance, but at first glance, the whole thug look puts youoff. That is ok. Past experience can do that.

why do you get to decided what is "ok" for people to feel about your race? why one way for Ford and and another for Gris?

you know, i was thinking precisely the same thing...

Why couldn't they just target the broken-down schools for improvement and curtail funds for schools that are working? I mean, I'm not an expert on any of this, but I'd imagine the schools that are in better shape had a larger budget to begin with, and the ones in disadvantaged areas had less.

Do you know what racist means?

Oh, wait, learn how to spell it first.

do you know what your subtitle implies?

I didnt decide anything. Its my opinion. How come you are so capable of understanding this topic but spell like a 2nd grader?

I have to say I've always thought bad things of you all, but racists... woah. Though it shouldn't be that surprising considering your negativity towards other nations (read, France).

I harbor no negative attitude toward the french. Hell, they helped America gain its independence. A bunch of fat, ugly, American politicians trying to rename "french fries" to "freedom fries" does not mean I despise the French.

If they took funds away from those that were working, then those would become crappy..

I don't mean completely take away existing funds, I mean curtail an increase in funds. You make it sound like the increase in public education funds would go EVERYWHERE when it would really only be needed in specific locations.

No, the ones that are "working" are already right on the edge.

At least around here, in California. :p

Well, maybe I'm just isolated in my rural Canadian utopia, where racism isn't even remotely a problem, despite the overwhelmingly white population. The few minorities that do live around here are treated just the same as anyone else, as far as I've seen. To be honest, I've never met anyone in my life who had racist views, or if they did they hid them well.

Perhaps that's why I find it difficult to believe that real racism exists anymore, outside of neo-nazis and some "gangsta" thugs. Now culture clashes, that I can believe. There's a Native reserve near the town where I live, and the people there have a signifigantly different culture from the rest of the population. There's a definate tension between the two cultures under the surface, I've noticed, a little bit of a "them against us" mentality. But that's all it is, a cultural thing. No-one thinks the natives are genetically inclined to have pow-wows or commit crime.

Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe I just have too charitable a view of what America is like (which is a weird thing for a Canadian to say ).

In any case, the solution isn't affirmative action or any ridiculous race-based policies. The solution is the better education of all involved. All affirmative action does is reinforce the notion that there is some intrinsic difference between people with different skin colours.

Ford's experience reinforces my point: in Ohio, the black kids were like everyone else. In wherever the other place was, there was Ford's friends who were black, and there was the "gangsta" black guys. The only difference? Culture.

Skin color and sexuality are of the most trivial human traits, and should be ignored.


My mom is Helluva racist.. which blows, I can't have any of my non-white friends over.

And if she found out I was going out with a black girl... she would have thrown me out.

EVERYTHING his n word with or n word that...

I just... wanna take a shovel and hit her in the face with it untill she can no longer use her mouth...

I can't believe you would say that about your own mother, even if she is a racist.

And why are we all so convinced that this isn't true? Isn't it possible, if not extremely likely that there exists other differences between races then the skin color? Black people are usually better athletes, there's no denying that. So why is it so impossible that there could be differences among intelligence between the races? Of course that's the most taboo thing ever so no one will ever address it besides to spout off a bunch of bull**** rhetoric and insult me.

Thought I would not about mine, he has the right do say whatever he wants. His life, not yours.

UHH...excuse me but did I say he didn't have the right to? No! I simply expressed my opinion about it. So yeah, shut up.