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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Oh My... Racial Segregation?
123
Oh My... Racial Segregation?
2005-06-24, 12:00 AM #81
Raoul, what evidence is there that white people are more intelligent than black people? Multiple studies have been done and blacks are just as intelligent as whites are within their realm of familiarity. SATs and crap are designed for whites, you can't expect a bunch of black kids from a poor school district somewhere to do well on them, because they just don't have the same experience. But they have their own experience, and when they are tested on that, there is no difference in intelligence.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2005-06-24, 12:06 AM #82
Quote:
Originally posted by Raoul Duke
I can't believe you would say that about your own mother, even if she is a racist.


You don't know my mother.

Think THRAWN's mom, only worse, and a pill popping adict.
2005-06-24, 12:17 AM #83
Quote:
Originally posted by Raoul Duke
And why are we all so convinced that this isn't true? Isn't it possible, if not extremely likely that there exists other differences between races then the skin color? Black people are usually better athletes, there's no denying that. So why is it so impossible that there could be differences among intelligence between the races? Of course that's the most taboo thing ever so no one will ever address it besides to spout off a bunch of bull**** rhetoric and insult me.


That's only because they live and train in areas high above sea level and there is less oxygen in the air. This makes the body more efficient at taking the available oxygen out of the air (otherwise an extremely inefficient process). Whitey training in low-oxygen conditions has the exact same effect, and many whiteys do just that.

I don't dispute your logic, though. When a population is separated and develop in different environments, they will evolve to adapt to their environment. Eventually, they'll become a different species (they've become so different that they can't reproduce with the population they split from).
Except in humans, this process wasn't going on for very long. Long enough to evolve the different melanin levels in response to sunlight, but not long enough to actually produce a new species. Or to produce any other significant difference.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-06-24, 1:29 AM #84
Quote:
Originally posted by Freelancer
Raoul, what evidence is there that white people are more intelligent than black people? Multiple studies have been done and blacks are just as intelligent as whites are within their realm of familiarity. SATs and crap are designed for whites, you can't expect a bunch of black kids from a poor school district somewhere to do well on them, because they just don't have the same experience. But they have their own experience, and when they are tested on that, there is no difference in intelligence.


I never said I thought white people were more intelligent then black people.
2005-06-24, 6:03 PM #85
Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfy
Why is there a separation between "eastern european" and "white"?

It's hard to explain...
I've always seen racism as more... well, in my experience discrimination and segregation have always been about culture, not skin color, though that is a factor, obviously. I mean, I know that in many other places racism and discrimination is based on your skin. Here, we tend to overlook the color, focus more on... what you're like...
I dunno. I guess it just depends on what you consider racism. For instance, you could draw a distinction between a catholic and a jew. Well, very easily you could. Irish and Italian (this one actually comes up a lot here, don't know why). Vietnamese and Chinese. African American and African. Mexican and South American.
Thus, I draw a distinction between "white" which is just vaguely western European (2 generation or more) or possibly Canadian and people from Eastern Europe (including the Middle East) and people from Russia and it's various offshoots. Mostly Ukrainians.

-There's this one Ukrainian girl who's particularly hot... she's christian though. I mean, so am I, but she's... a proselytizer... did I spell that right?
2005-06-24, 6:50 PM #86
Quote:
Originally posted by Raoul Duke
Black people are usually better athletes, there's no denying that. So why is it so impossible that there could be differences among intelligence between the races?


Quote:
Originally posted by Raoul Duke
I never said I thought white people were more intelligent then black people.


Um, who do you think you're fooling? You clearly implied it.
2005-06-24, 6:51 PM #87
Quote:
-There's this one Ukrainian girl who's particularly hot... she's christian though. I mean, so am I, but she's... a proselytizer... did I spell that right?


I can give you a whole host of reasons why she's logically wrong, if you want. Not that that'd really... help... much... at all...
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-06-24, 7:18 PM #88
Do it! :D
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2005-06-24, 8:18 PM #89
Dis tread is toopid!
2005-06-24, 8:48 PM #90
googoogapoopoopopeepeepahaha
2005-06-24, 9:34 PM #91
Quote:
Originally posted by Mort-Hog
I can give you a whole host of reasons why she's logically wrong, if you want. Not that that'd really... help... much... at all...

Hell, so what if she believes that God created the world in 6 days? I believe Jessica Simpson was a virgin when she married Nick Lachey. I believe a man can fly.
It's just... you know, the whole... *christian* thing...

-Ah well. There's plenty of hot athiest black chicks too. Or catholic Mexicans, Jewish Asians (seriously), or even a few really nice Indian girls. For some reason they really like me...
2005-06-24, 10:08 PM #92
When I was in 5th grade I applied to attend the ACT program in my school district. They did take into consideration the fact that I am 25% Mexican, 12.5% Choctaw Native American, and the rest some odd mixture of Anglo-Saxon. I found the school to be very enlightening as to the other cultures of my schoolmates.
MithShrike: First Mateneer
Pimpin' Yerba Mate Drinker
2005-06-25, 11:08 AM #93
Quote:
Black people are usually better athletes, there's no denying that. So why is it so impossible that there could be differences among intelligence between the races?


Anyone who works out should know the answer to this..

Black people are generally better athletes/bigger muscular wise because of one reason. They have faster twitch fibers.

Twitch fibers in african americans are higher and faster and can be traced back to the days of slavery. Over time, their race developed faster twitch fibers in their bodies because of the extreme conditions and labor they were enduring. Their bodies adapted over time, until nowadays genetically most black people have these faster twitch fibers.

It has nothing to do with color.
2005-06-25, 11:25 AM #94
Quote:
Originally posted by Temperamental
Anyone who works out should know the answer to this..

Black people are generally better athletes/bigger muscular wise because of one reason. They have faster twitch fibers.

Twitch fibers in african americans are higher and faster and can be traced back to the days of slavery. Over time, their race developed faster twitch fibers in their bodies because of the extreme conditions and labor they were enduring. Their bodies adapted over time, until nowadays genetically most black people have these faster twitch fibers.

It has nothing to do with color.


You don't seem to understand how evolution works.

Their 'bodies adapting over time' has nothing to do with their genes.

Them working out really hard and becoming very muscular would make no difference to their children. Their children will be just as skinny as they were as children.

The only way for the black race in America to have evolved is if slave-keepers actively killed all the weak blacks, if there was some huge genetic cleansing getting rid of all the scrawny weak blacks.

Now, the blacks chosen for American slaves probably were not representative of blacks in Africa; slave keepers would probably be more likely to choose the naturally big and strong blacks as slaves. But there would still be lots of weak Africans that would become very strong by working very hard. This would have no impact on the genome, and have no significance to blacks today.

I very much doubt that the black 'gene pool' could have been distorted in such a way to bias big, strong blacks, because that would require either very precise selection methods (because even a very small number of undesirable blacks would spread their genes back into the gene pool) or a huge culling of undesirable blacks.

Neither of that ever occured.

The cultural aspects affecting blacks are far more significant than any genetic predisposition.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-06-25, 11:29 AM #95
I hate this thread with a passion.
2005-06-25, 11:29 AM #96
Um...Ask anyone that knows about physical fitness...

Twitch fibers are the reason black people are faster runners, develop muscles faster, and look bigger.
2005-06-25, 11:38 AM #97
Muscle fiber isn't a genetic trait passed onto offspring.



End of discussion.
2005-06-25, 11:43 AM #98
lol ok.

http://run-down.com/guests/je_black_athletes_p2.php


Quote:
We see these differences on the playing field, but they are apparent at the micro level as well. In the mitochondria of cells, the body's powerhouse, oxygen combines with the glucose released by carbohydrates and, eventually, fats to produce sustained energy. When the body demands quick bursts, it breaks down carbohydrates quickly, if incompletely. At roughly 400 meters, about 40-50 seconds of running for a top athlete, or 100 meters in swimming, the body has depleted much of its anaerobic capacity. That is the point at which anaerobic athletes experience an accumulation of lactic acid, the waste product of the muscles. If physical activity continues past this bio-physiological divide, the body begins to process energy more deliberately. Scientists are definitive in their findings that athletes of West African ancestry are the most anaerobically efficient athletes, East African are the fittest aerobically, and whites fall in the middle.

For years it was axiomatic that muscles have two types of fibers - white, or fast-twitch, which were thought to be adapted for power movements, such as leaping or sprinting; and red, or slow-twitch, which were adapted for endurance. Now we know the model is more complicated. There are in fact two different types of fast-twitch fibers, one more metabolically efficient. Whites on average have a higher percentage of slow-twitch fibers than West African blacks who generally have more of both types of fast-twitch fibers.

Geneticist and exercise physiologist Claude Bouchard at Laval University in Quebec City, has run numerous experiments comparing two populations, French-Canadian and West African students. Using long needles inserted into the thighs of test subjects, Bouchard's team extracted tiny sections of fibers, which look to the naked eye like pieces of raw meat. They were chemically treated to reveal metabolic differences, put on a glass slide, and slipped under a high-power microscope, where they appeared as a collage of tiny red and white crocodile scales. The West Africans, by a ratio of approximately two to one, had more of the larger fast-twitch fibers. The researchers concluded that the force generating capacity of type-II muscle fibers at high velocity, the speed and tempo of movements, and the capacity of an individual to adapt to exercise training are all genetically influenced.
2005-06-25, 12:15 PM #99
They were testing West Africans, not black Americans, so any genetic effects occured long before slavery.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-06-25, 12:34 PM #100
WIKIPEDIA HATH FAILED ME!!!!!



Inconcievable!
2005-06-25, 1:23 PM #101
Funny...I didnt know slaves originally came from America..
2005-06-25, 1:28 PM #102
What hes saying is that the testing was done on West Africans. That specific group of africans. By "Black Americans" he means everyone else. So out of all the Black people, they specifically tested West Africans. Not people from Trinidad, not people from Jamaica.


Your sarcasm confused me too much. I dont know why you wouldnt understand what he said.
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2005-06-25, 1:31 PM #103
What I maent was, they were testing West Africans because slavery originated there for the most part, and black americans nowadays probably have bloodlines linked to them. The article shows a strong link between the physical conditions the slaves endured and how it affects the bodies of african americans today.
2005-06-25, 1:55 PM #104
Quote:
Originally posted by Temperamental
What I maent was, they were testing West Africans because slavery originated there for the most part, and black americans nowadays probably have bloodlines linked to them. The article shows a strong link between the physical conditions the slaves endured and how it affects the bodies of african americans today.


Except it tested West Africans today, blacks that were never slaves and never had their ancestors as slaves. A significant proportion of black Americans today probably do have ancestors that were slaves, but West Africans living in Africa all their lives wouldn't.


Yes, slavery was a terrible mark on American history, but to say that slavery affected the genome is ridiculous.

The only way to affect 'the genetics' of a population is to kill people, lots of people. That's exactly what natural selection does.

But it's not what slave owners did, despite all the things they did do.

Making black individuals work really hard and 'develop their bodies' is not going to do anything to the black genome.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-06-25, 1:58 PM #105
Then explain why, even according to that article, blacks nowadays have these faster twitch fibers.
2005-06-25, 2:03 PM #106
For reasons other than slavery.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2005-06-25, 2:03 PM #107
Because they did before slavery too.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-06-25, 2:20 PM #108
It's very easy to say that "oh Kenyans are good at long distance running because they'd have to run a lot from village to village!" but it doesn't actually explain anything genetically.


You have to explain why slow-running Kenyans would die out, because that's the only way that the Kenyan population would become 'faster' as a whole. The slow-running Kenyans wouldn't, they would stay in the village and do something else, while the Kenyans that are good at running would be the messengers and stuff between villages.
The 'runners' would be very important to Kenyan villages as a whole, and would be very highly valued, much moreso than in European settlements. Those values probably remained throughout history as tradition in culture.
So it would appear that Kenyans as a whole are 'good runners', but it is entirely a cultural thing, in that Kenyans are just more interested in running.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-06-25, 7:13 PM #109
Ok. Very well, but I still stand by my statement that pretty much most black people have faster twitch fibers than any other race, which is why they are faster and bigger. It is also why a black male can develop muscles much faster than a white male in the gym.
2005-06-25, 7:15 PM #110
Mort wasn't contesting that, only HOW they got that way.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2005-06-25, 7:44 PM #111
I know that, I was just pointing that out.
2005-06-26, 4:20 AM #112
I'd also like to point out that the only evidence for what you're saying is a book by Jon Entine (not even a peer-reviewed academic paper), a book that spends most of its time listing the racial bias in sports, listing dozens of correlations, the only causality being misinterpreted evidence from other scientific research.
Jon Entine's own defense is that the real science to prove his theory is impractical and impossible to do. So it isn't really 'science' at all, it's just full of "Hey, isn't it strange how Asian kids are really good at maths? It must be because they're Asian!" type postulations.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
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