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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Knights of the Old Republic is quite possibly the best Star Wars game ever...
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Knights of the Old Republic is quite possibly the best Star Wars game ever...
2003-11-26, 1:26 PM #1
...ok ok so I exaggerate a bit. Nothing can touch the unholy goodness that is Tie Fighter... but this game comes so...SOOOO.. close it's not even funny. It's practically everything I've ever wanted in a Star Wars RPG...

Now I'm going to avoid spoilers, and I'm sure anyone would like for those that reply to do so as well, so here's the official "NO SPOILERS, DAMMIT" warning.

The story is fantastic. Star Wars HAS to be a "save the galaxy" kind of thing for it to be effective. At least for something of the scope of an RPG like this. This is the first game in quite a while where I found myself staying up into the wee hours of the morning (we're talking 4 or 5am here), just to see "what'll happen next". The plot is really well put together, and there's always a surprise or two waiting for you around each turn. The BIG plot twist (which shall remain nameless, and everyone would remember), is especially unexpected, and that's why I want to refrain from spoilers.

The characters are all quite well put together. Carth is this somewhat paranoid but otherwise well-meaning Republic grunt, Canderous is the seasoned (Mandalorian!) veteran, HK-47 is the BEST. DROID. EVER., T3-M4 fills out the need for an R2 component, Zaalbar is about as different from Chewie as you can get without shaving him, Bastila is the buttoned up, prim and proper Jedi, Juhani is kind of unsure of herself, Mission is a sometimes overzealous teenager. They're all quite well done.

Malak is especially good. I really like how they managed to make him threatening and evil and all that, without resorting to making him a Vader ripoff. I'd love to know what forced him to use the mask thing he has. (I know why its there.. just not the reason why it must be... NO SPOILERS.) Malak is just a mean *******. It's great. It makes you want to see the punk get slapped around.

That brings me to my next point. The voice-acting is really well done. There's really no groan-worthy voice actors in this. I actually recognized a few screen actors in the voice cast as well. (One of the Jedi Masters...) Everyone sounds convincing when they say things, and the big deal is that everyone in the game SPEAKS. Even the frickin' NPCs on the street who mean nothing to the overall story. THEY SPEAK. Sure they may only say a line or two, but they do SPEAK. It doesn't sound like much, but it does immerse you in the game just that much more. Kudos to whoever voice Malak as well. His voice is great, same for HK-47.

I also love the general setting. Its recognizably Star Wars, and yet it's not. It's no the Empire vs. the Rebels, or the New Republic vs. the "random jedi and stock stormies" of certain other Star Wars games. *coughJO/JAcough* There's an actual reason for there to be this many Dark Jedi, and this many Jedi. The Sith/Republic war is just a great backdrop. The idea that the Republic is sorely losing and that you're the key to saving it is a surprisingly overreaching and compelling plot device. I had planned to play through the game on the dark side originally, but I just felt so compelled to help these poor saps that I ended up doing pretty much all the things to get me light side points. You know there's a war going on on a GALACTIC scale. The world really does feel alive.

The aesthetics are great. Everything looks futuristic and Star Wars-y, and yet it all looks older and less advanced than what you see in the movies and later games. The Jedi are recognizeable, but they're not evolved into Qui-Gonn and Obi on the Federation battleship. They don't look exactly the same. It's a logical "degeneration" of the look of the jedi established in the movies. The Dark Jedi Sith look a lot like the Reborn in JO. I suppose that makes some sense, or may have been unintentional, but somehow they seem more threatening, as you know there's thousands of the buggers out there. And you know that Malak could beat the crap out of Desann and his morons and still have enough oomph left in him to throw old ladies into the path of oncoming traffic or something.

The ship design is really quite cool. They're nothing at all like the ships in the movies, though there is some correspondence between what you see each side using and what their descendents will use, but it's all quite new (or old, as it were), and refreshing. The Endar Spire has a look to it that I love, the Leviathan is REALLY cool and it successfully blends a unique and original design with something that is vaguely reminiscent of a Star Destroyer, etc.

The design of the worlds is also really great. Everything is expansive, immediately Star Wars-y, and just on a huge scale. It's all gorgeous, and each world has its own feel. Taris is obviously urban and dirty (on the underlevels), Kashyyyk has a primitive feel, Dantooine is just kind of a backwater world, Korriban is very evil (duh), Manaan is very serene and simple and beautiful. Level design is fantastic. Bioware's people have managed to make a world that's more believably Star Wars than Raven's, and Bioware was working with a time frame 4000 years prior to the movies. The scale of everything is just massive. The ships, the fights, the worlds. Everything just FEELS big. That's definitely to Bioware's credit. They did a much better job of that than Raven, IMHO. Of course, Bioware was working with a custom engine, not a licensed one, and one that is 3 or 4 years more recent than what Raven had to work with.

Now, to finish this off, I have to add in something about the music. When I first heard that they weren't using the classic John Williams stuff (or at least not a whole lot of it), I was kinda puzzled. I mean, really, who could do Star Wars music EXCEPT John Williams? Answer: Whoever the hell did the music for this game. The score is fantastic. Everything is very much Star Wars music, and yet you'll go the entire game almost never hearing any of the themes from the movies. No Imperial March, the Sith have their own theme, no Star Wars theme for the heroes, the Jedi have their own theme, etc. etc. It's all just really well put together, and is a fine addition to Williams' music, if you ask me. In a way, it makes sense that they used new music. This is a time period altogether seperate from the characters in the movies. Luke Skywalker and Vader won't be ALIVE for another 4000 years. The Galactic Empire is nowhere to be seen. Hell, the Sith (and I mean the Force-wielders, although the term applies to the Sith Empire in the game as well) haven't even gotten to their "only two" idea yet. There's thousands of the *******s. The new score fits very well into the whole idea of separating the game from the movies in pretty much every area except the fact that it's still Star Wars.

All in all, the game is fantastic. Even if you don't particularly enjoy RPGs, you should really give the game a whirl. It's worth its weight in gold, if you ask me. 31 hours 52 mins for me on my first play through, as a light-sider. I've just started again and plan to be dark side this time...

Seriously.. go out and get this game. Now.

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I'll admit to Reactor CTF, Duel Abyss, and even the CCCP, but not Sky High! (my first, be kind!) Ok so maybe I will.
http://www.jedilegacy.net/gonk/
2003-11-26, 1:30 PM #2
I dunno. I'll probably get CoD instead.

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saberopus
oh yeh wlel i jsut gots finesht wiht my morrwoind mod for teh JO An it takes up teh 900 gigabiets of spaec but i wlil not sowh yuo gyz teh scrnshoots becasue we dunat kare wut u gyz tihnk ne1 no wear i kan get ti hostad 4 dounlowd!!!!11!111 --Checksum
2003-11-26, 1:33 PM #3
Gonk's a fanboi!

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"She turned me into a newt!"
Pause
"Well I got better..."
"She turned me into a newt!"
Pause
"Well I got better..."
2003-11-26, 1:55 PM #4
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gonk:
HK-47 is the BEST. DROID. EVER</font>


....b-b-but...I thought you were the best? [http://forums.massassi.net/html/confused.gif]



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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian
Corrupting the kiddies since '97
2003-11-26, 2:02 PM #5
mayhaps I should clarify. HK-47 is worth 50 bucks just to listen to the things he comes up with in the game. He was almost always in my party, just to see what he'd say during some random conversation...

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I'll admit to Reactor CTF, Duel Abyss, and even the CCCP, but not Sky High! (my first, be kind!) Ok so maybe I will.
http://www.jedilegacy.net/gonk/
2003-11-26, 2:07 PM #6
Only thing I don't like so far is that it looks too much like TPM, and not enough like the comics.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2003-11-26, 3:07 PM #7
It is a great game, for the reasons you mentioned.

The only serious flaw (aside from the performance of the game, which leaves much to be desired) is that...the game looses a lot of its charme later on. I don't know about you, but I'm 75% into the game and getting bored...same fights over and over again with different coatings...and the conversations are beginning to strike me as repetetive.
2003-11-26, 3:46 PM #8
Is it better on a console or PC, and is it ever going to come out on PS2?

Just added KotOR to my 'list' [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
2003-11-26, 4:07 PM #9
Well, after reading this thread, I was thinking about buying the game. Of course, that was before my friend decided it would be funny to tell me what the "plot twist" was. Yay. Now it's ruined.

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Moo.
Moo.
2003-11-26, 4:10 PM #10
I thought it was alright and mildly interesting when I played it on XBox, but that was it.

I really am trying to figure out why none of the recent Star Wars games appeal to me at all. I mean... I just can't get excited over any of them, I don't feel a pressing need to have them, and, frankly, alot of the recent ones just flat out bore me. That last reason is quite weird, because I know that if, say, JA had come out last year, I would have been scrambling to get it. Now, I'm waiting to see what mods and SP levels arise for it before I make a decision.

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Frogblast the Vent Core!

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"In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move." - Douglas Adams
Are you finding Ling-Ling's head?
Last Stand
2003-11-26, 5:14 PM #11
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Spork:
Is it better on a console or PC, and is it ever going to come out on PS2?

Just added KotOR to my 'list' [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

</font>


PC. Of course that could be my rampant omghugewasteofabox hatred talking...

And I'm not sure if it'll ever come out on the PS2 or Gamecube.. I sincerely doubt it, in fact. Stranger things have happened, however. (GTA3/Vice City, anyone?)

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I'll admit to Reactor CTF, Duel Abyss, and even the CCCP, but not Sky High! (my first, be kind!) Ok so maybe I will.
http://www.jedilegacy.net/gonk/
2003-11-26, 5:18 PM #12
PC it is [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
2003-11-26, 8:19 PM #13
[Obligitary "Those *******s!" post because they decided it would be too much hassle to get it to Australia within a couple of weeks. December 6th! You *******s! Gah!]
2003-11-26, 8:34 PM #14
There are shops which import games just a few days after their release, Matt, you just gotta know where to look [http://forums.massassi.net/html/wink.gif]

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
2003-11-26, 9:12 PM #15
Thank you for telling me where they are, instead of being oblique and shifty!

Hint, please?
2003-11-26, 10:21 PM #16
I just got the game a couple of days ago and it rules. I agree with Gonk on everything. It's a blast to play. I played for seven hours straight yesterday and wanted more

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
Pissed Off?
2003-11-26, 11:57 PM #17
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Matthew Pate:
Thank you for telling me where they are, instead of being oblique and shifty!

Hint, please?
</font>


We've been over this before [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]

Pulsar, in the city, NW corner of Bourke and Elizabeth, upstairs.

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
2003-11-27, 12:00 AM #18
What? You mean I have to catch the train!? This game had better be worth it! [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

Is it still $100 or whatever? I don't want it enough to pay ridiculous amounts of money...
2003-11-27, 12:30 AM #19
I'd call and ask them if they have it first...

Also, what's wrong with driving into the city? The Eastern Freeway gets you there in like 10 minutes.

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
2003-11-27, 12:45 AM #20
Yeah, but there's basically no where to park.

Ask!? Next you'll be telling me to ask for directions! Fah! [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]
2003-11-27, 1:25 AM #21
Nah there's not, just keep circling the streets with meters in the middle till you find one. Try on Saturday, it's really easy to find a park then.

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
2003-11-27, 4:29 AM #22
I <3 KotOR. And I hate RPGs generally. I'm going through withdrawls this week since I'm stuck at home.

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Baby Mama's Drama
TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE
2003-11-27, 4:33 AM #23
not enough memory left... [http://forums.massassi.net/html/frown.gif]

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)
---@%
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2003-11-27, 4:55 AM #24
I agree with Gonk. It's my favorite Xbox game.

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Maker of the Levels:
Sand Trap
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Writer/Author of the fanfic: Dragonball Aftershock

_.~'AKA DBF_SuperSaiyan'~._
Author of the JK levels:
Sand Trap & Sand Trap (Night)

2003-11-27, 5:26 AM #25
KOTOR is my next planned purchase [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif] One question about the (saber) combat, though. Do you get to choose what kind of attack you use or is it all just one generic animation?

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"This hole is octogo. Ogiganeel. It's Octa.. It's got eight sides."
"We interrupt this program again, A. to annoy you, and B. to provide work for one of our announcers."
2003-11-27, 5:29 AM #26
Dare I say:

the plot of KOTOR > the plot of the original Star Wars trilogy > the plot of the prequels

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Archimedes: Pseudo-intellectual since 1986
www.retronetworks.com
2003-11-27, 5:40 AM #27
Livid, it's an RPG-style combat system.. it's actually based on D&D rules. Which I understand nothing of and typically have a strong distaste for. (Bought NWN, hated it, never played past the first chapter.) The saber fights are interesting, however. They're not just simple "swing, swing, hit, miss, swing, swing" things.. they actually made them (and the sword fights as well) seem interesting... :P

Edit:

Yeah Archi, it is really good. I must say. I'm playing through my second time on the dark side, and I have to say, I feel BAD about it at times.. I mean it sounds sad but you get kind of attached to the characters.. and that's the sign of good writing and storytelling. The entire game is just fantastic. There's some minor annoyance things, like the ability to only put one item in a container at a time (WTF?!), but that's minor compared to the wholesome goodness that is KotOR.

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I'll admit to Reactor CTF, Duel Abyss, and even the CCCP, but not Sky High! (my first, be kind!) Ok so maybe I will.

[This message has been edited by Gonk (edited November 27, 2003).]
http://www.jedilegacy.net/gonk/
2003-11-27, 5:47 AM #28
Ah, thanks. I kinda figured it had D&D rules (knowing Bioware and all [http://forums.massassi.net/html/tongue.gif]). Now it's just a long wait until Christmas before I can afford it...

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"This hole is octogo. Ogiganeel. It's Octa.. It's got eight sides."
"We interrupt this program again, A. to annoy you, and B. to provide work for one of our announcers."
2003-11-27, 6:17 AM #29
I plan on acquiring it eventually. Either as a Christmas gift or earlier if possible.

Oh, and Gonk, I suggest that you dig out the old NWN and play some of the user created modules, or join a PW online. It is REALLY a fantastic game, I can't stress how much fun it it. The orginal campaign really doesn't do it justice - it is not that great at all.

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Eat the pudding.
2003-11-27, 6:30 AM #30
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gonk:
Yeah Archi, it is really good. I must say. I'm playing through my second time on the dark side, and I have to say, I feel BAD about it at times.. I mean it sounds sad but you get kind of attached to the characters.. and that's the sign of good writing and storytelling. The entire game is just fantastic. There's some minor annoyance things, like the ability to only put one item in a container at a time (WTF?!), but that's minor compared to the wholesome goodness that is KotOR.

</font>


Sounds like KotoR is to Star Wars as BG2 was to the Forgotten Realms. I love BG2 but i've never been able to bring myself to play through as an evil character... it just seems wrong somehow.
Detty. Professional Expert.
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2003-11-27, 6:54 AM #31
I love KOTOR. The characters are amusing, though the lack of voice acting for the main character makes him seem a little "quiet" IMO.

The plot in places is amazing, espically some of the twists (I won't elaborate at this point!)

Organic MEATBAGS!

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GhostOfYoda - General doer of stuff.
Massassi's Official Chatroom: irc.synirc.com #massassi
2003-11-27, 8:12 AM #32
I'm playing through the Leviathan right now, its excellent! I know how you feel about the game, I wanted to free the captured slaves on Korribanbut it wouldn't let me [http://forums.massassi.net/html/frown.gif] I've also tried clicking mean responses to people but i just can't bring myself to do it.

My only 2 beefs is one: the swoop racing sucks and two: I don't like the fact you have to be a Jedi, I'd like to go through the whole game as a Scoundrel but even if the game let you the later enemies are so hard you have to be a jedi with a lightsaber. [http://forums.massassi.net/html/frown.gif]

All in all though, this game is excellent. Go get. NOW.

[This message has been edited by Evil_Tofu (edited November 27, 2003).]
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side
2003-11-27, 7:17 PM #33
Damn, turns out that Pulsar place doesn't have it (luckily I emasculated myself to the extent that it was possible to give them a ring). So now I gotta wait like a chump for December 7th.

How long can it take to send an image of the CD here for the local plants to press? About three weeks, apparently. Argh. I feel justified in my "Those *******s!" now.
2003-11-27, 8:08 PM #34
Livid, there are different attacks for with the saber, and each has it's own animation, which is really cool. Plus, the enemy, as well as your character, dodge and kick and block and stuff. They managed to make it look somewhat close to a real fight

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
Pissed Off?
2003-11-27, 9:01 PM #35
Wow, just finished it, since I played as a scoundrel at first the boss fight was such a pain the arse. But since it's finally over now, I think I'll have to see the dark side ending. :P
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side
2003-11-27, 9:33 PM #36
vinco!

Anyone in Melbourne wants one, they're at Metro PC on Elizabeth Street (northwest corner of Lonsdale). They've got about 20 left, but they probably won't last out the wekeend, apparently.

I'm installing as we speak!

I'm giddy!
2003-11-28, 3:12 AM #37
And I'll be in the city tomorrow.... And the credit card has $100 left on it....

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
2003-11-28, 3:24 AM #38
Wowsers.

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Multiplayer Game Alias: II88BlackOps
JA is awesome!
Corrupted Paths, my WIP for JA. Screens here: http://imagebase.freewebspace.com/photo.html

My quote: "People choose to side with the left, and the others choose to side with the right. I go forward."
2003-11-29, 2:38 AM #39
Got the last copy, Matt [http://forums.massassi.net/html/smile.gif]

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.
2003-11-29, 3:13 AM #40
i'm playing a, er, borrowed copy... i'll be buying very very soon! I love it!
i would've bought it yesterday but i got Two Towers SEE instead ;D

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"Those who are able to work, and refuse the opportunity, should not expect society's support."
"*quickly adds in disclaimer that Is may still yet end up being slapped with a white glove, as all women are crazy and there are no rules*" --mavispoo
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