http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/11/la.shootout.ap/index.html



I really don't know what to say except, as a cop, is your life really more important than that of a baby?

I don't think it was intentional really... but still is sad.....

They did their best. Instead of blaming the cops, blame the guy that used his daughter as a shield.

And honestly, I value the life of a cop more than a baby. I'm a horrible person, and I know it.

Honestly, they couldn't possibly do that...

EDIT: It is a tragedy, from my point of view, the cop who was injured, probably shot when he was injured, and that way was not very accurate at all....

Apparently this kind of **** happens all of the time?

Wow. I don't know what to say.

Then say nothing!

I'm with Vincent on this one.

I think Vincent had a point in his first statement, but on his second, no, oh definatly no.

No life is worth more than another, but if I had to pick, I'd probably choose the cop, since you can never be sure what the kid will grow up to be. Especially with a parent like that...

It's unfortunate, but it happened. Pointing fingers won't bring the child back. But people never die in vain - at least hopefully someone will learn from this.

We can only put our feith into Resurection, that shall come after Armageddon...

That's a terrible thing to say. It could have grown up and found a cure for AIDs.

The fact that some of you people are saying that a cops life is worth more than that of an infants downright sickens me.

Precisely, I'd say the child is a better choice....

That hurt my brain.

The fact that some people are saying that one person's life is worth more than another person's life sickens me. You should be happy for the infant that it didnt have to suffer through life.

I don't agree, but I can see where they get their logic. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they're wrong.

I dunno, I feel saddened for the infant's early demise, but I don't know what to say about it.

This wasn't a matter of a single officer shooting and killing a man and his daughter. What if the guy had shot and killed one of the police officers because they didn't return fire to avoid hitting the toddler? What if another officer got shot and killed? What if an innocent bystander was shot and killed? How many lives is the life of one baby worth?

All and none... a baby can be the opportunity for everything... we don't know..... we should Trust god's Judgement, he sees, hears, and knows all......

And he lets police officers shoot babies, apparently.

The "well, maybe the baby would have grown up to be this, this, or this" arguments are crap, whither negative or positive. You don't know so it's useless trying to predict the future. The only thing that matters is the present moment in a situation like this.

Nice jump in logic. Yes, babies are killed sometimes and it's sad. Notice they didn't say "shot by police officers".

I never said the cops life was worth more. In fact, I straight out said that no life was worth more than another. But from a more "statistical" point of view, the cop is more helpful to society since we have no idea what the baby would turn out to be - a cure for AIDS? That's a very remote possibility, especially considering the environment he would be brought up in. It's more likely he would be an average joe. The cop is already here helping society, making a difference (at least trying, and assuming he's not crooked).

As I said before, I don't think any life is worth more than another, but I'm rather sick of the "OMG it's a BABY! He could have cured AIDS, Cancer and invented a rocket to get us into deep space!" give me a break. You're acting as if the baby is an untapped source of solutions to everything.

babies die all the time. so do grownups. big deal. however, now the cop will have to live with this on his consciousness, and some would confort him, some would hate him, some would want him dead. but in his own eyes he'll be a monster for a long, long time.

why?

because of us. society. because WE are the real monsters. baby, not baby, what's the difference? none.

babies suck.

If the baby was to be placed in a sealed box with a vial of poison....

It's a tragedy that the baby died, but, as the evidence is now disclosed, I would blame the father, not the police officer. They were simply trying to secure those they could.

Eats babies.

The kid could grow up to be another Hitler as well, fact is you don't really know and you can't use that as a factor until the kid actually has a personality to judge. In this case, you wouldn't even know the kid's personality if it had one and you can't say "well it could've done great things!" That is a cheap argument.

I don't see how you can get in a fuss just because someone thinks an infant's life is the same value as one of the cop's.

The biggest factor that you should be looking at is that most cops would choose to give their life for an infant because that's what they're for. However, in this case you really can't predict it. Whos to say the guy wouldn't of killed the kid anyways?

The guy could've killed more than just one cop and then killed the kid, you just don't know. However you can tell that the guy wasn't just there to shoot the breeze, he decided to take a pistol AND a shotgun, it's highly unlikely he would've gone down easy.

It had to end, the cops took a chance and it ended badly. That's it. You may not have respect for cops and love to hear about them killed or something, but the cops doing anything less in this situation could've made it end worse.

Nobody is saying it's a good thing it turned out like this, but it could've been worse.

Haha. I first saw this story on Something Awful (fellow goons can probably find it easily) and just like here, there's a good debate going on.

You know what? You're right. We should all kill ourselves right now to avoid the pains that life bring. Hell, let's start a webpage telling every pregnant women out there to get an abortion so their baby's don't have to suffer through life!



I'm not touching that subject. What I'm touching is the "better the infants life than the cops" tone going around in this thread.



I believe it was you who made the comment "since you can never be sure what the kid will grow up to be." Now, if you're going to use the negative possibilities as a plus for your arguement, then I can use any of the possible positives for mine.

And who are you to say that the child WOULDN'T have been an untapped source of solutions for everything? You're no one to make that assessment. Do I believe that the child would of been? Absolutely not. What's the point of this paragraph then? Don't say crap like "we're not sure what the child would of been" and not be able to accept the positives.



So that makes it ok then? Oh and there ya go again with the "don't know how it'd turn out to be" arguement. Perhaps the baby would have been a better cop than the one who shot her?

I would of never used the cure for AIDs thing had Emon not said what he said about us not knowing "how the child would turn out".

And where do you get I don't have respect for cops? Why do you even assume that I don't? That pisses me off but I'm simply ignore it.

Fact is I don't have a problem with the cop that accidently shot the kid, or any of the cops at the incident, they did their job as best they could, and I'm no one to say they could of handled it better. Yes, cops doing less coulda made the situation worse, and I know that. I'm not saying any cop had any fault what so ever in the childs death.

It's the "better the child than the cop" atmosphere in this thread that I have a problem with.

I think it's a kind of a backlash generated by the "dude f*** tha police" attitude harbored by so many members here. I'd be suprised if any of the people posing here have violent feelings toward babies. :p

Spectrael--you assume to much, and are far too emotional. Sometimes these situations have to be approached with logic--are the lives of a squad of police worth the life of a child who may OR may not (that's a moot argument) have a future? That's what everyone's saying. And you're criminalizing it as if it's a bad thought. Either way, it doesn't matter because the kid's dead.

I think this is an instance where we should be thankful a situation, which could have become a lot worse, didn't.

Anything could go a lot worse.


...and this thread is destined to.

You have as much reason to believe this child will grow up and discover a cure for aids as you do to believe he will grow up and become the next Adolf Hitler or a mass murderer. It's all speculation that has no evidence to back it in either direction, so it has no weight.

Hey... facts are always nice. The man was armed and dangerous, and was a threat to more than just one life. It wasn't a 1 cop/1 baby trade; there were more lives at stake. And if I had to choose between my life and the life of nearly ANY stranger, I'd choose myself, baby or not. The policemen made this choice; I don't think anyone here, in the heat of the moment and fearful for their own life would make a different choice. Again, this isn't just cop versus baby, this is multiple lives versus one.

If you were the cop you wouldn't be thinking "Heeyyy... so I'm a cop, right... inhuman scum according to Brian... and either I can get my head blown off (as well as the heads of my colleauges, and possibly innocent bystandards because I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE HERE AND THIS ISN'T A ONE MAN STAND OFF) or blast the man through his baby. Aww... that baby has so much potential! Nah, and I don't care what my wife and kids, and my colleague's wife and kids, will feel when we die..."

Facts:
-The man was armed and dangerous, and had shown will to harm
-The police were called because he was threatening others THAT WERE NON OFFICERS
-Multiple policemen were called and therefore were in danger
-The baby was being used as a sheild to protect a man that had the capacity to kill others

I think the right choice was made, considering the circumstances. And seriously, that was a pretty crappy way to start a thread. Nice supporting evidence and thought put behind that post, bucko.

i can predict the future and i see this in the thread's future

only a matter of time

but back on topic... it's a tragedy when any innocent person gets killed in these situations

wow, I can't actually sit here and read the crap you guys are posting... Sure, it sucks that a kid died, it sucks when anyone dies, but because this particular incident is in the media it's a big deal.

This does not affect me, I don't know the kid that died or the familywho has to suffer with the loss of a husband and a daughter, but I'll still live, I have to worry about my own problems in my own life and why should I care if a child I never knew halfway around the world died.

It just seems like they could have tried something else before they spread 300 rounds. I mean, the article says the guy had a 9mm and a shotgun, he can't have had THAT much ammo. Take cover, shoot some freaking stun guns or bean bags at him or something. Use a freaking net launcher, think of SOMETHING. Especially since there had been no fatalities thus far, only one injured cop. I couldn't open fire on a guy holding a baby and live with myself. I mean damn, get a freaking sniper on the roof and blow his head or his knees off!

That's all easily said and done when you are completely removed from the situation.