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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Fox News owns an idiot...
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Fox News owns an idiot...
2005-07-14, 2:44 PM #161
Quote:
Originally posted by JDKNITE188
I've had enough. You're not even addressing what I say directly. Instead of arguing, I'm just going to ask you, Mort-Hog, plain and simple: Do you truly believe American troops are killing civilians in Iraq intentionally?


No.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-07-14, 3:01 PM #162
lol got it freelancer. ;)
2005-07-14, 5:52 PM #163
Quote:
Originally posted by Dj Yoshi
It's an example of the mentality you and Mort display. Mostly you, actually, you display it all the time (in drug threads, in cop threads, in political threads).


How many drug and cop threads have we had?

Oh, and thank you Mort-Hog for the clear response.
2005-07-14, 5:54 PM #164
Quote:
Originally posted by JDKNITE188
How many drug and cop threads have we had?
Every thread turns into a drug and cop thread
2005-07-14, 6:20 PM #165
Quote:
Originally posted by money•bie
Every thread turns into a drug and cop thread


Basically.
D E A T H
2005-07-14, 6:23 PM #166
And not even cool ones talking about drug-busting or drug lords or anything. Just lamo ones where we sit around discussing legality issues and similar ****e.
2005-07-14, 6:27 PM #167
110 pounds in 36 hours...
D E A T H
2005-07-14, 8:29 PM #168
Quote:
-Revolutionary war. Brits thinking they're high and mighty.
-Civil War. The South wanted to keep slaves and such, thus threatening the slaves' freedoms.
-WWII. Both Germany and Japan wanted to invade us. Japan wasn't even directly threatened by us, they overreacted (their nature).


Holy crap, do you have no knowledge of history whatsoever?

Revolutionary war: Actually, it was the *colonists* getting high and mighty, deciding the king wasn't for them any more, and rebelling (becoming "insurgents", if you will). Britain tried to keep a hold on its own property, with the assistance of a large number of Americans, but failed.

Civil War: The South seceded, refusing to be part of America any more. Lincoln didn't like this, nor did much of the North. So, they fought to "keep the South", pretty much exactly like Britain had fought to keep northern America 70 years earlier. Slavery was the root cause of secession, but as it had existed for the previous 70 years, and would have continued into the future had the South NOT seceded, it was hardly about Slavery itself. Even the emancipation proclamation only freed the slaves in the states that rebelled.

World War II: Germany had little intention of invading the USA at any point, either then or in the future. It certainly never had the capability to launch a trans-Atlantic invasion, since it could barely manage a trans-Channel invasion against Britain (and once it invaded Russia, already a stupid second front, America was not even remotely likely to suffer an invasion by Germany within the next several decades). Japan had been increasingly militaristic throughout the 1930s, with its invasion of Manchuria in the early part of the decade, and then its invasion of China. The USA responded by issuing a trade embargo, and seizing all its American assets. Since Japan was almost totally reliant on US Oil, this was essentially an economic attack.

Japan was, at this point, sick of "meddling" by the Western powers, from the 1853 arrival of Commodore Perry, which humiliated Japan in forcing them to open up to the world, to the 1921 screwing of Japan through a naval agreement, where Japan was forced to have fewer large ships than the US or Britain, despite its assistance in WW1, through to it seeing the USA as meddling in Japan's sphere of influence in Asia by protesting against its annexation of various Asian states. The USA at this point was, of course, hardly innocent in the "taking territory from someone else" stakes.

Thus, in an effort to secure raw materials for themselves, since the USA would no longer supply it to them, Japan sought to remove the USA's influence from the Pacific, so it thought that a decisive assault of Pearl Harbor would so demoralise the USA that it would not retaliate, but instead leave Japan the Pacific.

Now, Japan was hardly a benevolent power doing only what it had to survive, since the trade embargo would not have come up had it not been so militaristic, but Japan *had* been screwed around by the Western Powers who saw it as inferior, and after its victories against Russia in the early 20th century, Japan thought this definitely not the case, and sought to establish its own Empire, the way the Western Powers had centuries earlier. It thought the Western Powers hypocritical in resisting ITS expansion, when they had done the very same thing.

You'll find that history is rarely black and white, with good and bad guys, despite what current politicians would have us believe.
2005-07-14, 11:22 PM #169
Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Pate
Holy crap, do you have no knowledge of history whatsoever?

Revolutionary war: Actually, it was the *colonists* getting high and mighty, deciding the king wasn't for them any more, and rebelling (becoming "insurgents", if you will). Britain tried to keep a hold on its own property, with the assistance of a large number of Americans, but failed.

Civil War: The South seceded, refusing to be part of America any more. Lincoln didn't like this, nor did much of the North. So, they fought to "keep the South", pretty much exactly like Britain had fought to keep northern America 70 years earlier. Slavery was the root cause of secession, but as it had existed for the previous 70 years, and would have continued into the future had the South NOT seceded, it was hardly about Slavery itself. Even the emancipation proclamation only freed the slaves in the states that rebelled.


Sorry Matt, you know I love you but I'm too tired to fully debate this. On these two examples though I wanted to make a few quick comments.

America was always a product of fleeing English opression. In that regard we were never insurgents. We did simply rebelled.

In the Civil War the south rightly rebelled against Federal opression. The main issue was state's rights and although the south was wrong on the specific issue of slavery they were right on the larger issue. Even though the far more enlightened position was dealing with slavery the rise of federal power began in that era. That is a bad thing.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2005-07-15, 8:10 AM #170
Quote:
Originally posted by Wookie06
Sorry Matt, you know I love you but I'm too tired to fully debate this. On these two examples though I wanted to make a few quick comments.

America was always a product of fleeing English opression. In that regard we were never insurgents. We did simply rebelled.

In the Civil War the south rightly rebelled against Federal opression. The main issue was state's rights and although the south was wrong on the specific issue of slavery they were right on the larger issue. Even though the far more enlightened position was dealing with slavery the rise of federal power began in that era. That is a bad thing.


Except the South fairly obviously couldn't handle power, and it needed federal powers to stop the exploitation of blacks. That wouldn't have happened if the south maintained their 'state rights!!'.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-07-15, 8:15 AM #171
I agree the North had the moral high ground but the South was correct on the states' rights issue.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2005-07-15, 8:20 AM #172
Except they wanted state rights so they could maintain slavery. Federal powers were the only way to counter that, it was never going to happen from within the south itself.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-07-15, 11:06 AM #173
Actually, it wasn't really even about slavery. It was about the tariffs, the limitations, the things that were slowly destroying the South's agricultural economy because the North made laws favoring factories and industry instead of favoring all. Slavery was just a small part of it, Mort.
D E A T H
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