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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Thank you Mr. President
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Thank you Mr. President
2005-09-13, 10:22 AM #1
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9324891/

Nuff said. Everything I ever said, completely supported by the article. He takes the blame for all the people who suffered cause he is a ****ing idiot. Can't defend him now.
In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03
2005-09-13, 10:26 AM #2
correct ubuu, however, I find it almost admirable that he has the strength to admit responsibilty, rather than blame someone else, like, da tewworwists
Code:
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  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2005-09-13, 10:26 AM #3
Taking the blame does not necessarily equate to being at fault.

It's called leadership. The buck stops here. Just like in any organization, when problems arise, no matter who is at fault, the leader is the person who is taken responsible.

Besides, I doubt those response programs were entirely his doing, they've been in place for decades. The statement was a good move on his part.
2005-09-13, 10:27 AM #4
Originally posted by Ubuu:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9324891/

He takes the blame for all the people who suffered cause he is a ****ing idiot. Can't defend him now.


give the man a break.
2005-09-13, 10:30 AM #5
At the same time, this article makes me feel that he is more of a person than just Rove's automaton.

Although, him suggesting a military strike against Damascus when our forces are previously engaged in 2 major international theaters and 1 domestic theater is a bit preposterous. He says we have enough troops, but why then have I read numerous articles over the past 2 years saying the military is scrambling for more troops and keeping reservists and national guard units on active duty past their agreements?
"Those ****ing amateurs... You left your dog, you idiots!"
2005-09-13, 10:34 AM #6
Hey at least he's admitting that he's wrong. People almost never do that. And what's more, since he admits his failure, at least he's stating that he wants to fix it and prevent it from happening again.

Statements like yours are one of the key reasons people often are adverse to claiming that they were mistaken.
Cordially,
Lord Tiberius Grismath
1473 for '1337' posts.
2005-09-13, 11:20 AM #7
Originally posted by Lord_Grismath:
Statements like yours are one of the key reasons people often are adverse to claiming that they were mistaken.


Because they have weak personalities?
"Those ****ing amateurs... You left your dog, you idiots!"
2005-09-13, 11:48 AM #8
Bah, I hate it when someone quotes from a member of the forum that I have on ignore. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of ignore, no?
The cake is a lie... THE CAKE IS A LIE!!!!!
2005-09-13, 11:53 AM #9
Originally posted by SavageX378:
Bah, I hate it when someone quotes from a member of the forum that I have on ignore. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of ignore, no?


You have lord grismath on ignore? :(
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2005-09-13, 11:57 AM #10
Originally posted by Ubuu:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9324891/

Nuff said. Everything I ever said, completely supported by the article. He takes the blame for all the people who suffered cause he is a ****ing idiot. Can't defend him now.




You really, don't get it. It's called leadership. He's not the best president we've ever had, but this is very admirable of him.
2005-09-13, 12:10 PM #11
I must admit I am impressed too, but I will reserve most of my astonishment for when the president actually does something, you know? Like spearheading an effort to overhaul our emergency responsiveness or something. Admitting failure was the first step, now he needs to back it up with some serious leadership and action. If he can do that, I will be mightily impressed.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2005-09-13, 12:12 PM #12
Granted he's not all that great, that was very cool of him. It's bull he has to be the scapegoat for low-lives like the Governor of Louisiana and Michael Brown, but at least he's doing something to solve all the finger pointing.
"We came, we saw, we conquered, we...woke up!"
2005-09-13, 1:22 PM #13
Originally posted by Schming:
Although, him suggesting a military strike against Damascus when our forces are previously engaged in 2 major international theaters and 1 domestic theater is a bit preposterous. He says we have enough troops, but why then have I read numerous articles over the past 2 years saying the military is scrambling for more troops and keeping reservists and national guard units on active duty past their agreements?


Standard US Military doctrine is that we fight with 3 to 1 odds.
If we can't get 3 to 1 we generaly won't fight.
Not that we couldn't take on almost any other army with the odds reversed but, when we have 3 to 1 victory is virtualy assured.
The army always want's more people to be able to keep that ratio.
It is well that war is so terrible - otherwise we would grow too fond of it. - Robert E. Lee
2005-09-13, 2:03 PM #14
Well now, this is interesting.. The first time Bush takes responsibility for a mistake, and it's for one that isn't his.




Well, not entirely. ;)
2005-09-13, 2:11 PM #15
Admitting that mistakes were made is a huge step and should get big plus points in anyone's book.


Whether this amounts to any changes or improvements is another thing, but it would have been very easy to just sweep it under the carpet saying "o well, it was the best we could have done given the circumstances". But he didn't, and that alone deserves credit. Even if this is just clever PR manipulation, at least it's clever PR manipulation, not stubborn PR manipulation.

Much like Blair's speech after re-election, essentially apologising for the whole Iraq thing. It was clever, it was brave, it deserves credit.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2005-09-13, 2:27 PM #16
i agree with most of you. bushy could have done a better job preparing for a national crisis, and it's good of him to admit to a mistake. but it's easy to accuse someone of their faults once the incident has occured. if it's in your interest to solve problems, try to fix things before they happen. that applies to people complaining about bush and bush himself.
i know a vegan dairy farmer
2005-09-13, 3:13 PM #17
Quote:
Not that we couldn't take on almost any other army with the odds reversed but, when we have 3 to 1 victory is virtualy assured.


Umm...No. No intent to flame you, however, although America has a damned powerful army, there's a few countries in the world that would definately give you guys a run for your money.
2005-09-13, 3:23 PM #18
Originally posted by Temperamental:
Umm...No. No intent to flame you, however, although America has a damned powerful army, there's a few countries in the world that would definately give you guys a run for your money.

He said almost, tempermental. And besides, we have no reason to go to war with any of those countries that could give us a run for our money. There are reasons NOT to do it, in fact. Not right now. And anyway, I think that this speech was a good move. It will win more public support rather than reinforce people's arguments.
"You're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!" Anyone who recognizes this quote is awsome.
2005-09-13, 3:34 PM #19
Ahahaha. No. Sorry Ubuu, he only took credit for faults at the FEDERAL level (which is, admittedly, mostly with FEMA.). A lot of the problems were more at the state level.
D E A T H
2005-09-13, 3:50 PM #20
Originally posted by Lord_Grismath:
Hey at least he's admitting that he's wrong. People almost never do that. And what's more, since he admits his failure, at least he's stating that he wants to fix it and prevent it from happening again.


Nah, that's exactly what he wants you to think. He's simply being strategic. The nation is upset about the slow response, so he's taking the blame to win sympathy. A smart move because at the same time it will silence the 'uproar' a bit. This was to be expected.

He wants to prevent it from happening? They knew what was going to happen when something like Katrine would hit NO. They have known for a long time. Did you hear in the news about that NO hurricane scenario they had for over 10 years? They should have prepared the action plan too and not just the scenario.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2005-09-13, 3:51 PM #21
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Ahahaha. No. Sorry Ubuu, he only took credit for faults at the FEDERAL level (which is, admittedly, mostly with FEMA.). A lot of the problems were more at the state level.[/QUOTE]

Exactly and, as already stated here several times, leadership is taking responsibility for failures, not just successes, whether they be yours or those of your subordinates. I actually haven't heard of any substantiated failures of the federal government in this matter. At least not any that differ from any typical failures. In fact, the federal response was arguably quicker in this huricane as opposed to other recent huricanes. The failures at the state level, however, are horrendous. Of course none of this seems to matter to the usual anti-Bush crowd. I respect those who can see through the partisianship.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2005-09-13, 3:53 PM #22
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Ahahaha. No. Sorry Ubuu, he only took credit for faults at the FEDERAL level (which is, admittedly, mostly with FEMA.). A lot of the problems were more at the state level.[/QUOTE]


The biggest problems state level:

* Not fixing the damn levees in the first place
* Could have done a better evac job.


Anything more? No.
In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03
2005-09-13, 3:55 PM #23
Originally posted by Ubuu:
The biggest problems state level:

* Not fixing the damn levees in the first place
* Could have done a better evac job.


Anything more? No.


* Blocking the federal government from coming in and giving aid.

Not a big deal...really...especially not in a disaster like this.
D E A T H
2005-09-13, 3:57 PM #24
Good to know that Bush's mistakes are more important than the fact the Mayor of NO did not even try to get people to use public buses to get people out.

Flawless logic, Ubuu. :rolleyes:
"We came, we saw, we conquered, we...woke up!"
2005-09-13, 3:59 PM #25
Originally posted by Ubuu:
The biggest problems state level:

* Not fixing the damn levees in the first place
* Could have done a better evac job.


Anything more? No.


Well, then, maybe you can list some of the problems at the federal level for us. You know, since you're so fair minded and all.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2005-09-13, 4:01 PM #26
Originally posted by Jedigreedo:
Good to know that Bush's mistakes are more important than the fact the Mayor of NO did not even try to get people to use public buses to get people out.

Flawless logic, Ubuu. :rolleyes:



If you are full of great ideas, why dont you come run to be Mayor of new orleans.
In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03
2005-09-13, 4:01 PM #27
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Well, then, maybe you can list some of the problems at the federal level for us. You know, since you're so fair minded and all.



Google it.














Kidding.
In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03
2005-09-13, 4:02 PM #28
Originally posted by Jedigreedo:
Good to know that Bush's mistakes are more important than the fact the Mayor of NO did not even try to get people to use public buses to get people out.

Flawless logic, Ubuu. :rolleyes:


I'm starting to have a bit more respect for the mayor. What he did right or wrong exactly I'm not sure. He certainly made some mistakes and stupid comments in the aftermath but he was under a considerable ammount of stress, definitely overwhelmed, and sadly lacking any leadership from the state level. Hell, the state almost seemed to be fighting the response.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2005-09-13, 4:02 PM #29
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]* Blocking the federal government from coming in and giving aid.

Not a big deal...really...especially not in a disaster like this.[/QUOTE]


That was that stupid idiot Blanco. Ya, she is a dumb. Totally agree with you there.
In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03
2005-09-13, 4:03 PM #30
Originally posted by Ubuu:
Google it.














Kidding.


I'm more interested in what YOU view as federal shortcomings in this response. You do have an opinion, don't you?
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2005-09-13, 4:13 PM #31
haha. wow.. first thing bush takes the blame for, and it was a natural disaster.

maybe once he's out of office he'll take the heat for *cough* everything else.
2005-09-13, 4:15 PM #32
Originally posted by Cazor:
haha. wow.. first thing bush takes the blame for, and it was a natural disaster.

maybe once he's out of office he'll take the heat for *cough* everything else.


Of course not. He's not a crook.

<_< >_>
D E A T H
2005-09-13, 5:18 PM #33
I was initially impressed, but by the time Bush got the obnoxious "what went wrong and what went right" talking point/meme/whatever the apology was so weighted with conditionals and qualifiers it was worthless, except as a last ditch political move by a president with plummenting popularity ratings.

On the other hand, this is the closest this administration has come to admitting a mistake. Maybe next time they actually will.
2005-09-13, 5:32 PM #34
But it wasn't an apology and the administration didn't have any mistakes to apologize for. The media is trying to spin it that way but, whatever.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2005-09-13, 6:33 PM #35
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Ahahaha. No. Sorry Ubuu, he only took credit for faults at the FEDERAL level (which is, admittedly, mostly with FEMA.). A lot of the problems were more at the state level.[/QUOTE]

Indeed. Bush did the right thing by declaring a state of emergency before the hurricane hit. What else can the president really do. He handed things off the right agency, then things get all boggled down. Hell, the NO mayor had the opportunity to move people out of the city with city and school buses, but didn't because he said it would have been too hard to get the drivers to actually drive.
Pissed Off?
2005-09-13, 7:06 PM #36
>.>
Attachment: 7240/loloops.jpg (45,753 bytes)
2005-09-13, 7:18 PM #37
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Of course not. He's not a crook.[/QUOTE]

Of course not. He only found those WMDs.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2005-09-13, 7:46 PM #38
Originally posted by Avenger:
Indeed. Bush did the right thing by declaring a state of emergency before the hurricane hit. What else can the president really do. He handed things off the right agency, then things get all boggled down. Hell, the NO mayor had the opportunity to move people out of the city with city and school buses, but didn't because he said it would have been too hard to get the drivers to actually drive.



Ok, well lets do like we are all doing for Dubya. Dubya was man enough to admit fault like so many want to claim here. He is a great guy for that. Never once has the NO Mayor failed to take the blame where he could have acted better. How about we give him the same respect yall are giving Dubya.
In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03
2005-09-13, 11:18 PM #39
Except for the whole bus thing. He made excuses first.
Pissed Off?
2005-09-13, 11:19 PM #40
Originally posted by Wookie06:
But it wasn't an apology and the administration didn't have any mistakes to apologize for. The media is trying to spin it that way but, whatever.


wth dude...

Quote:
President: Nixon

Danger: Category-5 Hurricane Camille (August 1969)

Area: About the same area as that affected by Katrina


Response: Nixon prepared the National Guard in advance, ordering rescue
ships from Tampa, FL and Houston, TX to stand waiting along with over a
thousand regular military, 24+ helicopters to assist the Coast Guard
and National Guard about as soon as the hurricane passed.




President: Bush the Elder

Danger: Hurricane Andrew (August 92)

Area: Florida


Response: In the middle of a re-election campaign, Bush ceased
campaigning the day before the hurricane, went to Washington, and
assembled one of the largest military forces ever mustered on U.S.
soil. Seven thousand National Guard and 22,000 regular military were
sent in with the necessary equipment shortly after the hurricane passed
through.




President: Clinton

Danger: Category-3 Hurricane Floyd (September 1999)

Area: Virginia and Carolinas


Response: Meeting with China's president Jiang in New Zealand, Clinton
immediately declared the hurricane-affected areas as federal disasters,
allowing the military and National Guard to move in and help. Clinton
flew home immediately, one day before the hurricane hit, to help
coordinate the rescue.




President: Bush the Lesser

Danger: Category-5 Hurricane Katrina (August 2005)

Area: Gulf Coast


Response: National Guard troops are down about 8,000 members because
they are in Iraq with much of the necessary rescue equipment needed.
Bush was on vacation, riding his bike for two hours the day before the
hurricane lands. On the day Katrina landed, Bush attended a birthday
party for John McCain. The levees began to crack. While emergency
1.5-ton sandbags were ready to be placed to steady the levee and absorb
water, there were insufficient numbers of helicopters and pilots to set
them before the levees break. Nagin, the mayor of NO (who is an incompetent fool), pleaded for
federal-level assistance and got none. Bush went to San Diego to play
guitar with a country singer and end his vacation early -- but not
until the next day, because he had tickets to a San Diego Padres game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DHS
From the official DHS website

Preparing America

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp


China successfully evacuated 790,000 people in the first week of September because of Typhoon Talim. You *seriously* aren't going to put *all* the blame on a mayor who for some reason stopped the heroic federal aid or something.

-Bush wasn't an authority (he was chillin out) so he should've legally assigned authority to a few people in field who can take charge and actually get **** done.
-FEMA and homeland security are a joke
-Vacation is *not* a priority in situations like this. I remember our prime minister interrupting his one week in a year vacation because of some minor legal issues, and I was thinking 'Guy, don't do this to yourself buddy! You can fix it later, just lay back while you can dude'. This is a ****ing *hurricane*. He already had his months and months of vacation. Time to take action, dipsheeiit.
-Northern Command was ready to go in, but they had to wait for the "president's" go-signal, which never came because it's hard to give orders when your mouth's full of pie.
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