First, ground rules.

1) (those of you who have followed my love life) DO NOT ASK ME ABOUT MEGAN ON THIS THREAD. I'd be more than happy to tell you about it, but PM me, or get me on IRC or MSN.

2) Please don't turn this into a religious flamewar. This will be kind of a sensitive topic.

Ok. So lately I've been into this girl at work named Lindsay. A few days ago, we kinda got together... I wouldn't call her my girlfriend yet, but we've kissed and cuddled and whatnot... And I think I may be falling for her. Odd thing is, she's not like anyone I've ever been interested in, and further, most of the people in my life (whose opinions I respect) would not approve of her if they knew a couple things about her... I'll get to that in a minute.... The thing is, it's partly the quallities about her that are different (things people would disapprove of) that are turning me on to her. We're very similar in regards to a lot of things (taste in music, food, activities, etc... it's almost freaky) but there's a few issues where we couldn't be more different, and they're big issues. I explained a bit to landfish on IRC, so I'm gonna post part of our conversation...

Anyhoo, the smoking thing doesn't bother me so much... A year ago, I thought smoking was one of the most disgusting things ever, but my feelings on that have been changing slowly, and now it hardly bothers me. I don't smoke on a regular basis, but she does, and yet that somehow doesn't really matter.

It's the religion issue that kinda freaks me out. It's basically completely against all the things that I was raised to believe (many of you will know this already), but somehow I think about it and it turns me on (not like.. in a sick kind of way, but those are the best words to use, I think), and at the same time scares the **** out of me. One side of me is telling me to break it off now before I get too involved and this becomes a major issue later... The other side of me says its not a big deal and I like her and should be ok with where she's at... I'm split...

What do you guys think?
[edit: oh yeah, if you want to know about how the two of us hooked up, read my blog entry

ok!

I think having different religious views is going to be a problem.

How can you kiss and cuddle with someone while not being sure you like her or not? I just don't quite get that, I wouldn't kiss or cuddle with someone I didn't really like... meh, whatev, other people do other things, I guess.

Not trying to play the devil's advocate here (haha, punny I am), but have you ever though about what might happen if you two had kid(s)? That WOULD be a problem, since it would be hard for your religious views to be compatible, and would make conversations and family life difficult to say the least.

You may say "woah, that's miles out of the picture and may never happen" but you should be thinking about this sort of thing now before, as you put it, you "get too involved and this becomes a major issue later". I'm going to pretend for a moment that you're a Christian, and she's Wiccan (for the sake of example) - although the two of you could be very happy together, the conflict in your religious views would be a burden. Add kids into the equation AND both of your families - and things will get really difficult, I'll bet.

I'm sorry man, I really can't offer a definate solution, but I would most definately recommend you give this careful consideration.

wroar!

Argh... don't get me started. As many people can point out, this is my number one hot-button issue. I'd let you know what I think, but this thread would end up in the crapper.

whatever happened to religous tolerence.

I am sure that she would easly tolerate your beleifs. why cant you just tolerate the fact that she has her own.

Also, have you actualy looked up on what the wiccan faith actualy involves (just asking as you might be using an incorect view of the wiccan faith)

Who's discriminating? He likes her, even though they have seperate views. Way to go, says I. And I'm not even kidding, that's cool that you can get over your personal views on something and still like each other.

Now, here's the cooker, what if she doesn't like you? :p

Also,



... the hell? Time to get some new associates.

Lol, no... she's hot. But I'm not stupid enough to let that affect whether or not I like her. I really do. She's funny, and smart, and motivated, and we have a lot in common as far as the things we like...

No, I haven't looked at it.. So I'm sure I am using an incorrect view (or at the very least biased). I'm relatively open-minded for a conservative christian... But this is definately uncharted territory for me.

Heh, she does.. I have spies in her camp. :p (Another girl came up to me Monday and was like, "You should hear Lindsay talk about you... She really digs you. It's so cute.")

ELABORATE.

If your associates are going to shun you for something so trivial, time to find some better associates.

well this is not something my associates consider trivial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

check out the stuff on modern day wicca as well as wicca in the U.S.A.

If you leave her because she is a wiccan, you could do some very bad damage to her self esteem.

I'll check out the link in a minute, alpha, thanks...

And if I did break it off, I would tell her that was the reason, but I would do so in a way that would hopefully help her to understand that we're just from two different worlds... I wouldn't put her down or tell her that I'm dumping her cause of her "inferior religion" or anything...

I'm starting to like Freelancer already.

Back totopic.

If you want some of their beliefs, PM me. But don't take just my word for it, I learned by searching through various reasources...not just one.

Learn compromise.

If it is too much to handle, don't go for a girl because of it. Religion is VERY important to the human mind.

Smoking is bad. I find it disgusting, and I have never found a girl I liked smoking attractive...but that's just me.

Since when is having the same religion required to date? There's nothing wrong with wiccans or dating a wiccan, screw what other people say.

Do you know how she feels about you being Christian?

Where, oh where, is that news article from a couple of weeks ago that was about how falling in love makes you essentially blind to flaws in that person... bah, I can't find it.

She's probably quite okay with it because as a minority she has little choice.

He preached that to me too, you know Sarn.

>.>

wraar.

I know, opus, just clarifying anyway..

and..

Far as I know, she's ok with it... Doesn't seem to be an issue, for her.

You might find this interesting Sarn - Wiccans & Christians - Some Mutual Challenges

So mote it be!

Being a theologist, I'd like to think that Christianity should have some sort of love for all creatures, and not assume itself the definate answer to all things. I don't remember where or what passage, but there's something in the bible about 'faith in itself towards any cause is faith enough for god' Basically, if you can find similar morals, the actual segway to those morals should be irrelivant.

JediKirby

You already know what I think, and you know I'm right (I usually am), now it's just up to you whether you want to follow it or not.

]-[elle! Long time no see!!!!!! COME TO #MASSASSI MORE OFTEN! I NEED YOUR CRAZINESS BACK!

... if you can find that passage sir, i'd much like it if you would let me know.

I'd say you definately need to talk about it. But if you're both fine with each other's beliefs, I don't really see any problem. And on the Wicca issue, many of the conservative Christians simply don't understand what it is. Now, I don't claim to be an expert on Wicca, but I know there's a difference between Wicca and witchcraft/Satanism/whatever.

true, but it's still a pagan religion.

I don't even think it's right to classify Satanism as a religion. Not LaVey's version of it, at least. It's more of an individualistic philosophy, actually. Sorry for offtopic.

Yeah, well, depending on who you talk to, so is every other religion outside of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Really, when it comes down to it, you've got to decide what's more important to you: Your attraction to this girl, or your standing in the religious community.

I don't understand why they have Satan as an archetype while claiming they don't promote the "badness" that is associated with him. It reeks of shock marketing and an attempt to appeal to impressionable kids. Using Satan as an archetype of individualism is like having Hitler as an archetype of leadership. How can anyone take that seriously?

Sorry for random offtopic rant.

It has nothing to do with tolerance. It's important for people in a relationship to be compatible when it comes to issues they take seriously. It's fairly obvious that Sarn takes his faith seriously.

Sarn, here are my thoughts: If you two just date casually for awhile, things should be fine. If you get into a serious relationship, you're going to hit some major snags.

When reading your post, Sarn, I was filled with a strange sense of deja-vu. There was something very familiar about what you were saying, and it took me a while to figure it out. I'm still not sure why it seemed familiar, but this is what I think:

Now, I don't really know you personally, so I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like part of what's attracting you to Lindsay is in fact the element of danger and excitement. She's Wiccan, strange and exotic, and if people found out there would be repercussions. You said the religion issue turns you on, and at the same time it scares the **** out of you. Maybe it turns you on precisely because it does scare the **** out of you? Danger is an exciting thing, and I know I, for one, wouldn't mind a little more excitement in my life.

I dunno, I'm not much of a psychologist, but that's what I would be thinking in the same situation. Here's this girl, she seems nice, likes me, and dating her would go against everything I believe. It's like the plot from some Romeo and Juliet type movie. Forbidden love always seems more enticing and exciting, somehow.

My main advice would be to remember that your emotions cannot be trusted at this point. Like kyle90 was saying, attraction (not 'love', love is something entirely different, but that's rather off-topic) will blind you to the flaws in that person, and will subvert your logic to its own ends. There was a two-year period in high school when I was madly, utterly, head-over-heels "in love" with this girl who I thought was the pinnacle of female perfection. I drew pictures of her, wrote anonymous love poetry on the chalkboards to her, the whole deal. However, four years later, I am very much relieved that I was too shy to ask her out. I look back and think to myself: "What was wrong with me? How could I have possibly had any illusion that such a relationship would have worked?" My emotions had entirely blinded me to reality.

I would try to find someone who knows you, and whose opinion you respect, and talk to them about it. A third party whose mind is not currently a brewing pot of hormones and conflicted emotions would probably be valuable, right now. It's been my experience that decisions about relationships should be made with the head, not the heart. The heart means well, but it doesn't exactly weigh the pros and cons of everything. Listening to your head now might result in a lot less heartache later on.

not trying to decide what is right for you but from personal experience.
I am a athiest. my girlfriend is christian. We just put religion aside. we just dont speak about it to each other. so that was we each beleive what we wish. ive been with her for a while and now we live in a nice apartment together and i have decent life style.

I say you put religion aside and do what YOU feel, not what they feel. if you care about her. what she beleives wont touch you. But i can understand parents having a hard time grasping this concept.

best of luck.

Is there supposed to be something wrong with pagans?

I'm going to have to go with the advice of you doing what YOU want, what everybody else thinks is irrelevant, it's not their place to judge your choices (assuming you're not doing anything illegal).

Do what you're comfortable with. Difference in religion would eventually lead to some conflicts in such an intimate and close setting, but it's not impossible for two people of different religions to carry on in a relationship, or even implausible.

Plus, if you dump her, she might put a curse on you.

:em321: