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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → x800xl or 6800gt?
12
x800xl or 6800gt?
2005-10-05, 7:09 AM #1
Which do you guys think will hold up better?

The x800xl has transparency AA, 6800gt does not
but the 6800gt has sm3.0 and the x800xl does not

They perform relatively the same, but the 6800gt does opengl (doom3, etqw, q4, etc) better while the x800xl does D3D (BF2, HL2) better

They cost similarly too.

What to do?

I really like the prospect of transparency AA and I kind of doubt whether nVidia will add backwards support for it in their drivers like ATi has.
New! Fun removed by Vinny :[
2005-10-05, 7:41 AM #2
Originally posted by oSiRiS:
Which do you guys think will hold up better?

The x800xl has transparency AA, 6800gt does not
but the 6800gt has sm3.0 and the x800xl does not

They perform relatively the same, but the 6800gt does opengl (doom3, etqw, q4, etc) better while the x800xl does D3D (BF2, HL2) better

They cost similarly too.

What to do?

I really like the prospect of transparency AA and I kind of doubt whether nVidia will add backwards support for it in their drivers like ATi has.


You never know. Either way, I'd say X800XL, especially with crossfire finally out.
D E A T H
2005-10-05, 7:58 AM #3
nVidia
But only because of Linux-driver support.
Sorry for the lousy German
2005-10-05, 9:08 AM #4
i just recently bought a 6800 gt oc 256
im happy with the results
free(jin);
tofu sucks
2005-10-05, 9:12 AM #5
Make sure you get GDDR3 and not just DDR memory. Will make quite a difference in performance. If you do get a 6800GT, I suggest the Chaintech as I've heard excellent things from others about the overclocking, and have been able to easily surpass ultra speeds myself. The best part is the memory can be overclocked 110mhz, 220 DDR on my card, and that's the part that's getting the most workout anymore :)
D E A T H
2005-10-05, 9:36 AM #6
I'll be buying one of those cards on black friday. I hope to get it for 200. :D I would have said the 6800GT but that AA looks really nice. Tough to say.
2005-10-05, 12:59 PM #7
I have a 6800gt and I'm very happy with it, however...

with the new transparency AA ati is including in its drivers I'd probably have choosen the x800xl if i'd have known about it 6 months ago...

on the sm3.0 front, I've looked at splinter cell 3 with sm3.0 enabled and not enabled, in all honesty I can't see a difference...whether or not that changes in the future i'm not sure.

as for overclocking, both cards *should* perform very good, I've got a good overclock with my card and I know people who have reached x800xt speeds with an x800xl...

tough choice...
People of our generation should not be subjected to mornings.

Rbots
2005-10-05, 1:06 PM #8
[QUOTE=James Bond]I have a 6800gt and I'm very happy with it, however...

with the new transparency AA ati is including in its drivers I'd probably have choosen the x800xl if i'd have known about it 6 months ago...

on the sm3.0 front, I've looked at splinter cell 3 with sm3.0 enabled and not enabled, in all honesty I can't see a difference...whether or not that changes in the future i'm not sure.

as for overclocking, both cards *should* perform very good, I've got a good overclock with my card and I know people who have reached x800xt speeds with an x800xl...

tough choice...[/QUOTE]
That would be because SM3.0 is a speed only upgrade, no actual new shaders or anything :p
D E A T H
2005-10-05, 2:13 PM #9
the gt is actually a much better overclocker
New! Fun removed by Vinny :[
2005-10-05, 3:14 PM #10
PCI-express isn't an option?

I'd go with the 6800gt, just because it's what I've got. Except... yah know... not AGP. It's really lovely as far as I'm concerned. No complaints here.
2005-10-05, 3:26 PM #11
PCI-E really isnt all the better than agp right now
New! Fun removed by Vinny :[
2005-10-05, 4:12 PM #12
Originally posted by oSiRiS:
PCI-E really isnt all the better than agp right now

What he said.

PCI-E is, truely, much better than AGP. However, unless you're using SLI you won't see a difference because no cards use the extra bandwidth, and if they did they'd be PCI-E only.
SpamBlogger
"u r dumb, stop or ill sue u
- jak thomsun

p.s. ur gay" - Victor Van Dort

New disclaimer - Any brain damage suffered as a result of typographical errors is the reader's liability.
2005-10-05, 4:13 PM #13
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]That would be because SM3.0 is a speed only upgrade, no actual new shaders or anything :p[/QUOTE]No.

SM3.0 adds branching, shaders can be much longer (65,535 instructions is standard, unlimited on GeForce), vertex shaders can take textures as arguments, geometry instancing and whatnot. A fair number of the features are meant to improve performance but the big ones are graphical.
2005-10-05, 6:03 PM #14
Originally posted by FancyMan:
What he said.

PCI-E is, truely, much better than AGP. However, unless you're using SLI you won't see a difference because no cards use the extra bandwidth, and if they did they'd be PCI-E only.


Actually, you will, because the cards aren't limited to a PCI upload I'm sure cardmakers are gonna start figuring out how to take advantage of that.

List them then, Jon, as everything you just said really doesn't include any new shader abilities that one would notice whilst playing.
D E A T H
2005-10-05, 6:05 PM #15
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Actually, you will, because the cards aren't limited to a PCI upload I'm sure cardmakers are gonna start figuring out how to take advantage of that.

List them then, Jon, as everything you just said really doesn't include any new shader abilities that one would notice whilst playing.[/QUOTE]
"In the English language, the idiomatic expression 'to be going to' indicates future tense."
SpamBlogger
"u r dumb, stop or ill sue u
- jak thomsun

p.s. ur gay" - Victor Van Dort

New disclaimer - Any brain damage suffered as a result of typographical errors is the reader's liability.
2005-10-05, 6:33 PM #16
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Actually, you will, because the cards aren't limited to a PCI upload I'm sure cardmakers are gonna start figuring out how to take advantage of that.[/QUOTE]

You're right, but with the cards that oSiRiS are looking at, it won't make a difference. :)
Naked Feet are Happy Feet
:omgkroko:
2005-10-05, 6:34 PM #17
Originally posted by FancyMan:
"In the English language, the idiomatic expression 'to be going to' indicates future tense."


Damn, talk about flame bait. If there is one person on this forum you should never flame bait with, its DJ Yoshi. You'll never hear the end of it, lol.
The cake is a lie... THE CAKE IS A LIE!!!!!
2005-10-05, 6:40 PM #18
Originally posted by SavageX378:
Damn, talk about flame bait. If there is one person on this forum you should never flame bait with, its DJ Yoshi. You'll never hear the end of it, lol.


I don't flame idiots usually, but that **** pisses me off. I pride myself in my grammar and spelling, if nothing else, and my coherent thoughts (even while intoxicated) which flow quite easily. I do use colloquiallisms, but it's something every does, and it's something you shouldn't get hung up on like some wannabe elitist.
D E A T H
2005-10-05, 6:50 PM #19
Go ATI x800XL! I have one, and it performs way better than an old 6800 and slightly better in all games except Doom 3 compared to a 6800GT.

Then again, that's just how it falls on my computer. could be different for yours.
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2005-10-05, 6:56 PM #20
Originally posted by mscbuck:
Go ATI x800XL! I have one, and it performs way better than an old 6800 and slightly better in all games except Doom 3 compared to a 6800GT.

Then again, that's just how it falls on my computer. could be different for yours.


Not if the 6800GT reaches far past Ultra speeds :P
D E A T H
2005-10-05, 6:56 PM #21
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]I pride myself in my grammar and spelling[/QUOTE]
I could poke all sorts of holes in your grammar if I felt like looking through some of my textbooks, but there's no point. Your grammar is great for "forum grammar" and your thoughts are expressed well and coherently.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2005-10-05, 6:57 PM #22
Originally posted by Emon:
I could poke all sorts of holes in your grammar if I felt like looking through some of my textbooks, but there's no point. Your grammar is great for "forum grammar" and your thoughts are expressed well and coherently.


My point. I'm no English scholar, but christ if you can't understand what I'm saying you probably have a concept with what I'm trying to express, or with the English language itself.
D E A T H
2005-10-05, 7:09 PM #23
If you guys make one more post about grammar in this thread, the ban hammer will fall.
New! Fun removed by Vinny :[
2005-10-05, 7:12 PM #24
Originally posted by oSiRiS:
If you guys make one more post about grammar in this thread, the ban hammer will fall.


Grammar crackers.
D E A T H
2005-10-05, 7:39 PM #25
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]List them then, Jon, as everything you just said really doesn't include any new shader abilities that one would notice whilst playing.[/QUOTE]And you have enough experience writing shaders to determine this how?
2005-10-05, 7:42 PM #26
Infinite amounts of shaders, a different way of handling textures, and geometry instancing (which I dunno exactly what that is, granted).

If I'm wrong, enlighten me, but I don't think I am. I'm not asking you out of sarcasm, you know more about the subject, I truly want to know.
D E A T H
2005-10-05, 7:50 PM #27
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]a different way of handling textures[/QUOTE]

That's either flat out wrong or the understatement of the century.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2005-10-05, 8:07 PM #28
Texture arguments in vertex shaders = hardware displacement mapping.
Example: Fast rendering of isosurfaces (metaballs), terrain.

Geometry instancing = crowds, large groups of objects.
Example: Total War series, crowds at sports games, forests, detail objects - they retain depth information and aren't pixellated like previous solutions.

Larger shaders = More effects in fewer passes.
Branching = Complex effects - looping, conditionals and early exit.
Example: Single-pass variable gaussian blur.

Oh. SM3 hardware supports full 32-bit floating point textures too, which is THE FUTURE! Fun stuff like true HDRR, unlike the fake (albeit good looking) effects in current games.
2005-10-05, 8:08 PM #29
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]geometry instancing (which I dunno exactly what that is, granted).[/QUOTE]


Geometry Instancing has been available for a while now, heck, my 9800 Pro can do it, and its over 3 years old! :)

From X-Bit Labs:

Quote:
With geometry instancing, the VPU can create multiple objects from a single geometric model. Rather than passing an entire new model for each on-screen item, the application can send one model, and then supply parameters which indicate how each instance of that model is to be rendered in the scene. This results in savings on the CPU side.
Got a permanent feather in my cap;
Got a stretch to my stride;
a stroll to my step;
2005-10-05, 8:13 PM #30
Originally posted by Sol:
Geometry Instancing has been available for a while now, heck, my 9800 Pro can do it. :)
You're probably thinking of impostors.
2005-10-05, 8:19 PM #31
Originally posted by Jon`C:
You're probably thinking of impostors.


Nope:

[http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6379/pastedimage6mt.jpg]
Got a permanent feather in my cap;
Got a stretch to my stride;
a stroll to my step;
2005-10-05, 8:32 PM #32
Interesting.

According to the DirectX documentation it's not officially supported outside of the Shader Model 3.0 specification, much like several of the extensions NVIDIA added in the 6800-series.
2005-10-05, 8:54 PM #33
Jon, you might be interested in Bit-Tech's article on this insane 50,000 dollar HDR display. It's an LCD but with a new kind of backlight technology that allows for contrast ratios up to 200,000:1.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2005-10-05, 8:58 PM #34
Wow. That sounds excruciatingly painful.

For it to work really well I imagine you'd have to play in a dark room. I'd also hope their monitor supports floating point inputs (even just 16-bit FP) or you'd get noticeable banding even with a 32-bit source.

Edit: Oh, I see how they do it. That's really cool.
2005-10-06, 1:58 AM #35
on the subject of sm3.0 and what the ati cards can run (excluding the new x1000 series)...

ati runs a modified sm2.0, called sm2.0b, (I believe), it enables the x800 series to run everything new sm3.0 includes, but....the developers have to write the code differently, in smaller instruction sets. I read a story over 2 years ago now about how ati were trying to get their cards certificated as sm3.0 because they could still run everything needed to make the card sm3.0...

so, as I said, your unlikely to see a difference in image quality, but maybe in a year or so with games becoming more "shader heavy" the x800 series may start to show a slight slow-down compared to the 6800's and you may start to see effects on the 6800gt which you wouldn't be able to see on the x800xl.

A lot will depend on the game in question, the developer's and probably most importantly, the person playing the game and whether or not they actually notice it.
People of our generation should not be subjected to mornings.

Rbots
2005-10-06, 2:01 AM #36
talking of the story in question...(k, the story isn't 2 years old but it was a while ago)

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18119

explains it all.
People of our generation should not be subjected to mornings.

Rbots
2005-10-06, 5:07 AM #37
I can guarantee to you that the X800 series does not support all of the features of Shader Model 3.

Because I've tried them. I've checked the caps, played around, nada.

ATI is a gigantic whore when it comes to their own proprietary shader extensions. They do extend things in non-standard ways, but mainly that's just a ploy to throw certain costly features into hardware, giving them a slightly higher performance boost in benchmark programs they can buy their standards into. Check the 3DMark2003 fiasco for instance. PS1 tests used Radeon 8500-only features and defaulted to much slower options for all other cards. They are not features you can use practically because there is no guarantee it will be available on all cards. Thanks to this sort of thing almost every production engine out there has a different pipeline for every damn card.
2005-10-06, 9:03 AM #38
Nvidia ain't no angel either, Jon. :) Both companies have pulled a lot of BS stunts in order to gain a larger fan(boy)base or performance.
Got a permanent feather in my cap;
Got a stretch to my stride;
a stroll to my step;
2005-10-06, 9:30 AM #39
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Actually, you will, because the cards aren't limited to a PCI upload I'm sure cardmakers are gonna start figuring out how to take advantage of that.

List them then, Jon, as everything you just said really doesn't include any new shader abilities that one would notice whilst playing.[/QUOTE]


Would you like benchmarks and an explination, or would you like to aplogize now? ;)
2005-10-06, 4:55 PM #40
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Would you like benchmarks and an explination, or would you like to aplogize now? ;)


I dunno, would you like to realize you can't read now, or later?
D E A T H
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