http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4368704.stm

This post is going to be half news, half rant. I'm sick of people telling Bush to pull out of Iraq, pull out of the area, and to let it fend for themselves. Thinnk if you were in their position--wouldn't you, too, want the right to speak freely? To criticize governement, religion, anything as you see fit? I mean, it pisses me off that people will be all up in arms now when Bush says he's sticking to his guns, yet four years ago they were all for it. They didn't realize when he said "long-term commitment" he didn't mean a year, two years, he meant a long-term commitment.

Good god this stuff pisses me off. I wish Wookie were here, I'd really like to hear his opinion on this.

Your link doesn't work for me.

When people say they're switching sides on the war issue because it's taking too long, I scratch my head. Did you really think it would be a couple of weeks?

Weird, I got it off latest headlines live bookmark. Basically, an Afghani woman got jailed for writing "anti-Islamic" stuff, when it was just women's rights stuff.

Well, I'm against war.

But for freedom of speech.

No, but apparently someone else did... how much has this war ended already? Or the 'insurgency is in it's last throes'?

So this was the real reason now - freedom of religion, speech, etc, ...? Actually for real now? It seems to change more than Michael Jackson changes his face. Plus, this hot and fresh new reason doesn't seem to be all that consistent considering lots of US foreign politics say the last 50 years.



I say let them stay in Iraq - finish what someone else started for them. I'm not sure if pulling out now is the greatest move. I simply don't understand though how someone could not possibly give the WH **** for this war...

Then again, I'm still retarded.

This picture is really really misunderstood. The "Mission Accomplished" sign is for the aircraft carrier's mission. They completed their orders, and were going home. The sign was not for the country's involvement in the middle east and Bush's agenda.

How exciting, a desert war.

*yawn*

Sometimes when you **** things up real bad.. its just best to walk away.

And leave a country and a society in shambles, easy prey for the next dictator to start the **** all over again. At least finish it right.

Walking away would make for a far worse situation. Most people with any kind of brain see that much.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]And leave a country and a society in shambles, easy prey for the next dictator to start the **** all over again. At least finish it right.[/QUOTE]


Pffft, what are they gonna do?

Nothing.

It's not like we're going to get any higher on everyone's hate list. And besides, everyone has to deal with us, like it or not.

You won't care if there's a dictator or not in Iraq, burgerboys.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]I mean, it pisses me off that people will be all up in arms now when Bush says he's sticking to his guns, yet four years ago they were all for it.[/QUOTE]
Personally I've been against it from the begining.

I never supported the war in the first place, but I too see that we can't simply leave now.


I wish the people that oppose it now hadn't been warhawks then.



Also I am amused by Rumsfeld's "It could be six weeks, six months, six years!" And Condi's recent "we could be there for ten more years!"

Trust me, I was NOT for the war in the beginning, but I realize that we can't leave now. There's too much at stake for this country.

All of the stupid protesters and other people demanding we pull out of iraq are not getting anywhere. Do you really think that because a mom who lost her son along with a bunch of angry hippies are holding signs and yelling slogans that the President is just going to say 'ok, time to leave Iraq.' If theres any chance of persuading him, we have to do more than just pouting

It's dangerous that Bush and Blair have no real opposition. I'm English and can really only speak for English politics, but I haven't heard of any opposition for Bush where I live. As for Blair, the Conservative and Labour parties aren't really different anymore, and share alot of views.

That so many people are calling for us to pull out of Iraq now really tells you how irrational the American people have become about Bush.

I think we should pull out this isnant.

DEAL WITH IT.

I think you're a selfish ******* who doesn't care about the lives of millions of oppressed Iraqis.

DEAL WITH IT.

You really place so little stock in those peoples' abilities to solve their own problems and govern themselves? They're not lab rats, Yoshi. We don't deserve to play god with them and meddle in their affairs.

They can't govern themselves if 1) They don't have a military 2) They don't have a system which to base their governing on (it's already been determined they don't like the old regime, we're giving them a chance at a new one) and 3) They have valuable resources that would be tempting for any dictator to swipe up by taking power there by force.

Nuke the bastards. And BLAME CANADA!

He still said the war was over and that major combat operations were over. I have a sound clip of it on my computer. The picture represents that statement, pedantics aside. :p

Because the "war" is over, in the sense that there's no more major positions to be taken. Now it's just them attacking us and their own at random that we have to root out.

Well, for all the money it cost it, Sadam is gone. That's good at least. We need to give the Iraq's a deadline for leaving, though. It might help with the attacks, and it will the Iraqis know that they have to start standing on their own two feet. We probably won't ever completely leave though. Were not even out of Germany yet. :p

Fighting war for peace is like having sex for virginity.

Anyone remember a group of guys who were being opressed by the most powerful army in the world around 230 years ago? Remember what they did? They got tired of it, rose up, and fought for their own god damned freedom.

We did it in America when we were good and ready. They can too. The region is obviously not ready to have a civilized way of life, and the only way to deal with that is to perform mass genocide on everyone standing in the way of what we think that land should be used for. Hell it wouldn't be the first time the USA did something like that. We can just let the insurgents run casinos 200 years from now, and then we'll just forget they ever existed. Just pick a side, Kurds, Shia or whatever, and wipe everyone else out. Then there will be peace. As long as there are multiple viewpoints, with multiple beliefs, there will always be killing. There is still killing of this kind going on in the USA between gangs and such, or anti abortion people blowing up clinics, it just doesn't happen as often as it does in the middle east because the extremists are either too few, or too Baptist.

I say again, the only way to eliminate the violence in the middle east is for everyone to agree, and since they have been disagreeing for a very long time, odds of that happening any time soon are nil. So the only real world option at this point would be to kill everyone except for one group, and we're not going to do that either. The only thing we can do is sit back, and let them deal with their own problem. It will all work out in due time. Remember how the Romans fought a big war for peace. You know the attitude, unite everyone under one banner and there will have to be peace. Yeah, that worked out really well.

The reason the middle east is still so far behind everyone but africa as far as civilization goes is because for the past thousand years or so the entire ****ing world has been taking turns trying to control it. If the rest of the world would just leave them all alone, maybe they could eventually come to a peaceful conclusion on their own. Not in our lifetime, but someday. Then again, damn, it really sucks that they have pretty much all of the oil over there.

At the end of the day, you have to understand, an opressed society will have freedom when they choose to. They will eventually rise, and gain their freedom. When that happens, it's the right time. Not when you say it is, not when I say it is, and obviously not when George W. Bush says it is.

This war is stupid, it wasn't necessary. Since when are we the ones who decide who has a dictatorship and who doesn't? That's what it's about isn't it?

What gives the UK and USA the right to invade and take over a country then "hand it back to the people"?

The whole thing has ****ed up, staying longer won't help.

You disproved your own statement. I win.

And, I would hardly call getting free law and order, free schools, free this and that oppression. The minority who don't want us there demonstrate this by killing their own people.

Yeah, you almost win.

When the colonies fought for their freedom it was on their own accord, not someone else's ten thousand miles away.

And it doesn't seem like they're getting their freedom for free, unless you consider being bombed by your neighbor free. Of course, yeah, I guess that doesn't cost you anything.

This is possibly the first time I've ever 100% agreed with Yoshi. While I was supportive of this war when it first started, I wasn't really aware of what was going on. I'm looking back on it, and while the area did need cleaning up and it's was (not quite sure on this, don't rip my head off if I'm wrong) supportive/supplying the terrorists with weapons it wasn't out job to go and interfere with their government. If we were to assist in the changing of the government if they asked for our help, but to just totally go in and change without any incentive is wrong.

Now, however, we're in too deep too pull out. Now we need to stay there and finish what we started.

So..yeah, I just lost 2 cents.

How? The Patriots knew they wern't fighting for peace, they were fighting for liberation.

Hurray for revolution.

Yeah, when are we going to have a war inside a volcano, or underground?

That'd be SO COOL.

*adds things to his list of "What to do when I take over the world."*

Glyde, stop playing the RPG's...Fighting wars in volcanoes wouldn't unearth a huge dragon with lots of gold.

Yeah...it will. It'll bring them back to a situation where they can at least have a government instead of having unenforced anarchy.

Bill--they don't have the numbers, the will, the knowledge, the manpower, or the DISTANCE FROM OUR OPPRESSORS we had. This is the same reason tragedies such as civil wars which decimate millions happen in the african countries--the oppressors are too strong, and too close, and technology is not at a level where people are able to reach out and think freely, then spread this thought to incite rebellion.

I'm not saying I agreed with it to begin with. I didn't want to go, I wanted to stay the hell out of Iraq, even Afghanistan seemed stupid to me (and doesn't seem to have accomplished much). But I'm not gonna leave them in the middle of a directionless period where they have no government, no army, and no means of supporting themselves.

Sidenote: War for peace is neccessary. Otherwise you end up in a society where you have no say in what happens, you go through life wondering if today will be the day you die, afraid of living any longer, and can be slaughtered just for believing as you do. A la Rwanda.

Phht, RPGS. I don't care about dragons. I care about frags blowing up land bridges and sending people into the depthes below.

Duh

I actually read somewhere today that london reuters conducted a poll and found 80% of iraqui's opposed the american troops presence currently in iraq.

There will always be killing. No amount of wars will stop it. People will always kill each other. If we stay in Iraq for the next ten years, there will still be opression and killing in dozens of other countries. We cannot stop war by waging war.

"Only the dead have seen the end of war."
-Plato

Then let's make the best of it!

I can see it now. War games with lava levels!

Yes, and I'm not saying we should invade those, but we already did invade this one. Why not make it better?

Temp--yes, they oppose our presence, but a lot of them said they like what we've done--they just want us out. And I can't blame them.