[QUOTE=Darth Evad]i won't believe the two have anything to do with each other until someone can prove to me GW isn't becoming richer and richer by the second because of the high price of gas (oil).
GW can do something about the price of gas but it would slow down his portfolio and we wouldn't want that. our fearfull leader said he wouldn't do something about the price of gas because he shouldn't interfere with the free market. the only free market is his gas because we the tax payers pay for it. that **** hasn't paid for gas since he started in politics.
with a trillion barrels of oil in alberta they can leave alaska alone and bring the price of gas down to a reasonable level. trouble is they can do whatever they want because they make all these claims as to why the price of gas is so high and we just have to either believe them or not.

it's ****ing bull**** but that's life in the fast lane.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever taken Economics? If so, every one of your arguments can be torn apart. See supply and demand, price distortion, supply and demand distortion, and price ceilings and floors, and elasticity/inelasticity.

If I am interpreting what you are saying right, you can't just say "alright, we have a lot of gas, now let's artificially set a price." IT DOESN'T WORK

And For the Record:

DRILL THE HARP SEALS

Dude my love life had an abortion months before birth.

**** Rudolph, man! I'd personally slit his furry little throat if it got me a hit of that sweet oil. And I hear the Alaskan kind is the primo ****.

[QUOTE=Kieran Horn]**** Rudolph, man! I'd personally slit his furry little throat if it got me a hit of that sweet oil. And I hear the Alaskan kind is the primo ****.[/QUOTE]

Best post of the evening award!

I'm sure once the construction is done, the animals won't even care about the oil rig. And even if it is a problem for them, they'll simply just move away. Nothing is going to become extincting because of this.

Nature is overrated, anyway.

True dat.

heh... but it's not.
i don't care about economics or 'inflate this' and 'demand that'. i've got no arguments or data or sugestions. i just wish they'd leave it alone.

some of you may know my retirement plans already from old threads but things like this are why i'm going to remove myself from society. when i'm 55 i can't be worrying about what some criminal politicians are doing with my money and my country. i need to relax and go fishing.

btw, i do know that there are 10's of millions of square acres of untouched nature in canada. i still don't want them infringing on more just to get richer.

Erm, do YOU know anything about economics?! Darth Evad wasn't talking about just setting some "arbitary" price. He said "reasonable level." Meaning bring the prices down to the "Equlibrium" where people are willing to pay a price for a certain quantity of product at which the supplier is willing to supply at a rate sufficient to meet demand for that price level.

Unfortunately, where in most products, this will happen natually because the people can do without it until the price comes down to something more reasonable. Since everyone needs gas, people are forced to pay the higher prices (though they can cut down on extra travel to slightly reduce the rate at which they consume the product).

FACT: Did you know that Exxon Mobil just turned the highest quarterly profit in US history! They were up 75% of where they were just 1 year ago! Shell was up 68% and BP was up 34%! [Gee, I wonder what white house staff members can be linked to these companies?]

IF they were meetings the supply and demand curve such that a reasonable equilibrium was set, they should not have seen a 75% profit increase. Hell, they shouldn't even have seen a 10% increase if the huricans effected them as badly as they said. No, THEY PRICE GOUGED US AND THE U.S. GOVERNMENT STOOD BY IDEALLY AND DID NOTHING!

Do you want to know how stupid the general public (consumers) are? Do you really want to know? Gas is $1/gal greater then it was 1-year ago. However, PEOPLE ARE RELIEVED THAT GAS PRICES HAVE DROPPED AND ARE NOW GOING BACK TO BUYING AS MUCH GAS AS THEY WERE A YEAR AGO! THAT IS GRADE A STUPIDITY! The gas companies just played the oldest trick in the book. Jack prices sky high, and then come down 20% of the jacked price and enjoy the new 30-40% constant profit increase!

THE OIL COMPANIES ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE FACT THAT THEY SUPPLY SOMETHING THAT YOU NEED!

Now, let's look at WHY they are doing this. It's quite simple, really. IN THE NEXT 10 YEARS, THE DEMAND FOR OIL WILL DROP BY 50% OR MORE! If you've been paying attention, hybrid cars are finally starting to hit the market. These cars get an upward of 60+ miles/gal! Other technologies threaten the oil industry. The introduction of rare earth metals in the crafting of permanant magnets (such as the extreamly powerful Neodymium magnets) threaten the oil industry. Inventors around the U.S (over 600 in Calfornia alone) are submitting designs for "Free-Energy Motors" (which, btw, violate several so-called "laws of physics" and actually prove many of the points I've made over the years) to be patended. However, THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT PROCESSING THESE PATENTS CITING THAT "THEY DO NOT HAVE THE PERSONEL WITH SUFFICENT KNOWLEDGE TO ADEQUETLY TEST THE PROPOSED DEVICES." One inventor was running his entire house off one of these motors in this garage in Florida. THE GOVERNMENT CONFISCATED IT AND SERVED HIM WITH A GAG ORDER TO NOT TELL ANYONE HOW TO MAKE SAID DEVICE AND A CEASE AND DESIST ON MAKING ANY MORE OF THEM! People, HE HAD A FREE-ENERGY, NON-PULLUTANT MOTOR THAT WAS POWERING HIS ENTIRE HOUSE IN HIS GARAGE!

We, the humans of Earth, have learned to harnes the power of the rare earth metals to create a Free-Energy motor that will completely eliminate the so-called world energy crisis. Yet, the U.S. government is doing everything they can to keep this information hid from us while the oil companies (seeing their demise in the not-so-far future) rake in historic profits! If that's not a crime, I don't know what is...

You cannot set an artificial price. That's price distortion. Supply and Demand cannot work with price distortion.

And also, yes, hybrid cars get more MPG. But people are starting to find out that the hybrid car really costs more in the long-run. You save money on gas, but you are paying extra for the hybrid car. Once hybrid cars drop in price, then they will actually be worth it.

Huh? I specifically stated that Darth Evad was not setting an artificial price. He said a reasonable one, derived from a "natural" equilibrium (read my previous post again if you still don't understand what a supply-demand equilibrium is). If the oil companies are raking in a 75% increase in profit then the prices obviously arn't reasonable. Especially for a product that they know everyone needs. In case that wasn't clear enough for you: THE OIL INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE IS OPERATING A MONOPOLY.

If you still want to argue for their side of the issue, I must then question why you are defending them?

there's an exxon oil tanker named after condi. and the rich keep getting richer while they take power and care less and less about us.
when the second in command of the most powerfull country on earth has a tanker named after her, you KNOW they are catering to the company that owns the tanker.

someone said to me, 'gas is cheap. it's back down below $1/L.'
WTF?!?!!?? gas won't be cheap until it's back down below $0.7/L (or somewhere around $1/gallon for the US economy).

I think what msbuck and others don't realize is that the oil companies (and other large companies, such as microsoft) have Lobbist that work for them that live in Washington DC. Their job is to make sure that "their companies intrest are maintained." A lot of times, this comes in the form of parties, checks, cars, houses, ect., for congress members. FACT: Economist HATE politicians and the oil industry is an example of why they do.

If you want to hear the truth about the government and what it's doing to you, go talk to an Economist Instructor at a local college. I was lucky to have one that served in the Airforce, got out and was an economist for some large toothpaste company and some huge plastic company (he wouldn't say which). He told us about what he did for the companies (such as search "pending patends" for new ideas before they were approved...which is legal because they're considered public documents). He tell you right fast what the government is doing and how it is manipulating the economy in such a maniacal way, it's not even funny.

Sure, it isn't fair that the prices are high. But ANY other company if the demand for their product was inelastic would do the same exact thing. We just complain more about gas because a lot of people use it. If some company held the monopoloy on fuzzy-stuffed gator-teens, I'm sure YOU wouldn't care. Right now, there really aren't signifigant substitutes for the regular car, so naturally, the price will go high. And the one thing about gas it that people will keep buying it, no matter what. If a company can get people to pay $5 instead of $3 for fuzzy-stuffed gator-teens, then they will. Until a REALLY good substitute comes out for gas, then it's gonna stay priced higher.

AKA, a PRICE GOUGING MONOPOLY.

We're not talking about fuzzy-stuffed-gator-teens, WERE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING WE NEED TO SURVIVE IN TODAY'S WORLD. Other companies need gas to deliver milk, meds and other products that we need to live.

Bottom line is that, this is no different then directly jacking the prices of Milk or public water. Actually, it's worse, because gas is needed to deliver milk to the stores to us, so higher gas prices are going to cut into dairy producers profits. You know what they're going to do? That's right, their going to pass the cost right back down to the consumer.

Do you know what this is eventually going to lead to? Higher crime rates (we've actually already started to see this happening). If people can't afford to buy it, they'll steal it. We're not talking about a pair of NIKE tennis shoes, we're talking about things we need to live.

The government should have taken control of the oil industry years ago...oh yeah, that's right, the politicians were getting PAID (in one form or another) to vote down any legislation to do that...

Again, why are you defending the oil industry? THEY ARE COMMITING A CRIME AGAINST US!

I'm not defending them. I'm saying that any other company in their position would be doing the EXACT same thing. So don't act like it would JUST be the oil companies against us. When the demand for somethign is inelastic, they will pump up the price as much as they can, because there are no substitues. And there is absoulty nothing that can be done, except setting a price ceiling, creating subsidies, or artificially changing the price, which would make the situation even worse.

Wait, you want GOVERNMENT to centrally control the gas industry? Wow...just...wow....I'm guessing your one of those people that believes in centralized information rather than decentralized.

Last post, because I still dont' quite think you get that any company with inelastic demand for their product would do the exact same thing.

Actually, your wrong. Economist use a term for goods you need and a seperate term for goods that you don't need but you want. I just can't think of them off the top of my head.

How on Earth could you make such a claim? Yes, there is at least one alternative to combustion engines for cars. A company in Austrailia has claimed to create a free-energy automotive motor using neodymium magnets. However, since that option isn't yet available to us, we can't include it as a viable alternative. The economy DEPENDS on oil and gas. It would take a nose dive without it. So, yes, we NEED oil and gas!



If it was any other company doing the exact same thing, the government would have stepped in and made some arrests (or issue fines) for them having a Monopoly. It happend to the shoe industry back in the 80's when the all came together and decided to raise prices at the same time.

There's a reason we have monopoly laws in this country. It's a shame that exceptions are being made and the people and the environment are paying the price for it...

We don't actually need those to survive in today's world though. They're luxuries, not necessaties.

No. People in the western world are dependant on gas. Without it, we don't have food to eat.

Am I the only one that thinks CaptBevvil's form of 'debate' is questionable at best?

I very much side with buck here. Also--show me plans for one of these 'free-energy motors' and proof of concept instead of just spouting bs which I have no way of verifying. Please.

I wasn't referring to the oil, I was referring to the things like Milk and Medicine.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Am I the only one that thinks CaptBevvil's form of 'debate' is questionable at best?

I very much side with buck here. Also--show me plans for one of these 'free-energy motors' and proof of concept instead of just spouting bs which I have no way of verifying. Please.[/QUOTE]

I take insult.

"...which I have no way of verifying."
You know, you could have at least tried google before insulting me. That's where I found the below information (have yet to run across some of the previous information but will post it when I do).

http://educate-yourself.org/fe/

Almost every listing of "motor" is a Free-Energy neodymium designed motor (Matches 1 - 50 out of 162391):
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/search.pl?p=1&srch=xprtsrch&sf=1&query=%22Free+energy%22+%27motor%27&usapp=on&date_range=last20&stemming=on&sort=relevance

Here is one of the patents pending:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20020047334.html

Here is a link to the "Adams Machine" with an intresting read along with a "patent-esque" outline and schematics:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1287/adams/adamsall.htm

And tests run on the Adams Machine (both as a POC and for research purposes):
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1287/mm.html

Sorry, but I had to come back.

Congratulations on finding something that this "free motor" idea exists. However, I think Yoshi was more referring to your claims of this ultra-government conspiracy with them rejecting these patents left and right to get money. I think THATS what he wants proof of.

If you use the exact same search perameter I used to search patents pending for patents (in place), that none of them will come up. No-free energy motor has ever been approved. Apparently, it's not only in this country, but in other countries as well. Oddly enough, all paten offices seem to give the same lame excusse...

...and I didn't say anything about it being for money...

...that is beyond the fact the the neglect to free-energy patents and thus mass production of free-energy machines lead to the continued use of fossil fuels as our primary source for energy, thus keeping the oil industry going, thus keeping the lobbyiest able to line the pockets of politicians...

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Am I the only one that thinks CaptBevvil's form of 'debate' is questionable at best?[/QUOTE]
You're not the only one. It's just that the rest of us already knew he couldn't debate. We also know he has never successfully held a debate on any subject throughout his history at Massassi. Debate is about expansion of knowledge, but somehow he gets slammed into the ground each time.

Ad Hominums and Red Herrings will get you no where...

Besides, I wasn't "debating" I was stating facts and other points of interest.

I'll be sure to "properly" inform you when I'm debating...

Source?

I mean, you just said the US government issued him a "gag order", so how do you know that he built one? Got any proof?

I'm just curious because I built a zero point energy reactor in my basement and then marauding space men from Neptune stole it so they can wage their war against Earth.

Don't, worry Jon, I believe you!

*hugs Jon*

Here's some general info on the "conspiracy":
http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/vesprman.htm

I'm still trying to find that specific article on the Florida man again. It was actually in several different articles, so I'm not sure why I'm having such a hard time locating it now.

Regardless of which, this is all besides the point. The point is that the Oil Industry trying to tell us 'oh we have to recover loses from the hurrican season' when they're turning a record 75% 3rd quarter profit!

Your "proof" of the conspiracy is stagerring. A group of anecdotal stories which don't really prove anything. Not only that, but the author of the web page states at the bottom that he never verified whether these stories were actually true or not! In other words, the page provides no proof whatsoever.

Read the entire article instead of skimming it, it was intended not to give proof of any particular incident, but to demonstrate that there is a problem with the government rejecting free-energy and alternate energy sources in favor of fossile fueled energy that's destroying the planets atmosphere. In fact, check the other articles presented as well. Zero-point and over unity devices are slowly being excepted in the international scientific community (lead largely by nobel prize winners).

AFAIK, gag orders are not public records. Thus, there is no way to "prove" or "varify" those stories.

Again, this is all irrelevant. Bogging down on one point completely misses my entire post.

Can't kill what's already dead...

*rimshot2*

You're guilty of not being able to recognize some of the most obvious sarcasm I've seen on these boards :p.

Ok, why aren't we talking more about the possibilities of harp seal drilling?

because i'm busy clubbing their babies. screw the drilling.

I did read the entire article. I also tried following several of their links, which I thought might lead me to some actual proof. Sadly, they merely linked me back to the page I was already reading. Again, the article doesn't demonstrate any proof that the government is doing anything. This guy just posted a bunch of stories that he himself says that he never checked if they were true or not. Even if it was a gag order, he can still attempt something to try to see if they are correct. But instead, he just takes them and puts them on the internet because they support his conspiracy theory. I also read some of the links in your other articles. I certainly don't claim to be an expert on physics, but when these so called "free energy" sources such as the Joe cell seem to violate the laws of physics, forgive me for being a bit skeptical. Especially when they also make the rediculous claim of only working for people who build them with the intention of having fun and trying to help the environment. Apparently if you build them with bad intentions, the cell will refuse to work for you. So pardon me if I don't try refuting all your claims about these free energy motors.

This thread has unintentionally become one of the most hillarious ever!

[QUOTE=Compos Mentis]This thread has unintentionally become one of the most hillarious ever![/QUOTE]

This thread can also be .... a hat!

Is it a fancy hat?

The Captain obviously knows just as much about economics as he does about physics.

[QUOTE=Michael MacFarlane]The Captain obviously knows just as much about economics as he does about physics.[/QUOTE]
My thoughts exactly.