i'm starting to watch the reruns on space. i know i have to leave the room during the opening credits. it makes me ill to see a star trek show start like that with some stupid pop song from the 20th century rather than some good music.

so why do you think it failed?
i'm not sure.

i dont think alot of people watched it, but i am not sure on that, i just know a few trek fans that didnt like it that much

I watched most of the last season of it.

Mainly, I think the characters weren't very strong - the audience didn't care about them. As you'll see, a lot of the stories weren't very good, and the acting is only so-so.
And the theme song. Few people liked it. I liked it during that last season when it had some rhythm in it. I thought the words were perfect for the series.

Because of that damn theme/credits music

Oh man, the memories *cries* THE NIGTHMARES!!!

Because the show sucked until the fourth season and by that time it was already doomed

Indeed. It lost most its audience in that time, including me.

It didnt fail... it was on for more seasons than the Original Series. :p

Because it wasn't deemed canon Star Trek, as far as I recall.

I still think it was if not the best then the second best Star Trek series ever. Granted, the theme song sucked, and I would much rather have had a real Star Trek style music, but it wasn't such a huge problem. I don't watch TV series for the theme song.

The stories were a lot less bizarre than in the original ST, a lot less stupid than many of the TNG stories, and a lot more interesting than many Voyager stories. I had no problems with them. But then again, I really liked B5, so that may explain why Enterprise was also good in my opinion. There wasn't so clear separation to good and bad races/parties, and that was an excellent fact, and much needed in ST.

I suppose that's why it failed: It wasn't exactly like the previous ST series.

Edit: Edited in some missing logic.

DS9 for the win.

It was no TNG or DS9. In both of those - you cared for the cast. The cast made those, followed by some truely great scripts.

I agree that Enterprise started getting good at its end, but the cast never did anything from me. The best cast member on the show was the Captain's beagle.

Hard to make a show successful when your captain is basically an *******. Archer had a real anger problem. It supposedly conflicted with all ready established canon timeline stuff. What the hell was this whole schtick about a "temporal cold war??" Laaaame.

Because it's not The Next Generation.

An oldie, but a goodie:


Top 10 Reasons the Star Wars Characters Would Kick Butt in the Star Trek Universe:

10. In the Star Wars universe, weapons rarely, if ever, are set on "stun."

9. The Enterprise needs a huge engine room with an anti-matter unit and a crew of twenty just to go into warp -- the Millennium Falcon does the same thing with R2-D2 and a Wookiee.

8. After resisting the Imperial torture droid and Darth Vader, Princess Leia still looked fresh and desirable. After pithy Cardassian starvation torture, Picard looked like hell.

7. Jabba the Hutt would eat Harry Mudd for trying to cut in on his action.

6. Luke Skywalker is not obsessed with sleeping with every alien he encounters.

5. One word: "lightsabers".

4. The Federation would have to attempt to liberate any ship named Slave I.

3. Darth Vader could choke the entire Borg empire with one glance.

2. Picard pilots the Enterprise through an asteroid belt at one-quarter impulse power. Han Solo floors it.

1. The Death Star doesn't care if a world is class "M" or not.


In the words of Yoda, “That is why you [Enterprise] fail.”

Because Berman and Braga became flipping morons after DS9. Voyager was bad enough, Enterprise was Voyager with a twist.

Reasons why the first two seasons are horrible-

1. Lack of real plots
2. Lack of character development
3. Using Vulcans for the sake of getting people to say "Oh, Vulcan, I know what that is" but not actually have them be like Vulcans.
4. Freak of the Week syndrome.
5. Weak continuity.
6. Reusing Voyager scripts.

Granted, the show got better when they brought in new people in mid-third season. The Xindi War was pretty cool, but Berman and Braga screwed it up again. For the third season's finale cliffhanger they introduced an alternate timeline where Nazis had invaded the US during WWII. So...how did they accomplish this? Alien Nazis!

So, having to go through that for the first few episodes of the fourth season pretty much sealed it's fate as it didn't grab any new viewers.

Fortunately, future Trek may be saved from their horrible clutches as both of them are saying they're done with Star Trek.

Hehe, Goodwin's Law.

IMO, it failed because of weak characters and stale, overly used plots. The fact that they tried to use sex appeal by having the vulcan be a woman sporting slim outfits was a really sad attempt at trying to keep ratings. It may have worked with Voyager but I don't think it'll work a second time there, buddy!

Berman and Braga dropped creative control of DS9 toward the middle of season 2 so they'd have more time to develop Voyager. This is also when the series started to pick up. The first 2 seasons of DS9, except the last episode of season 2, sucked unbearably hard. It was basically TNG/Voyager only they didn't go anywhere, 'cause they're on a space station.

The later seasons of Enterprise have a darker/martial theme, which is sorta what fans of the show want, but not exactly. The War Series has been done, another one would be trite and tedious. I want another series with the same... well, robustness of TNG: Mainly peacekeeping inside the Federation, occasional exploration, with the very infrequent purely military episodes that seem absolutely epic. But I doubt we'll ever get another Star Trek series of TNG quality, if any other Star Trek series at all.

Edit: And Voyager? Voyager sucked for so many reasons it isn't funny. Static characters, all of them. Inconsistent writing. At least one time travel plot in every season. Tiny, insignificant 300m long ship taking on fleets of the Borg. Communicating with the Borg. Making deals with the Borg. The Borg Queen. The Borg installing colored lights and mist machines inside their cubes. Tom Paris not being the same person who was Wesley Crusher's academy pilot friend. And so on.

10. In the Star Wars universe, weapons rarely, if ever, are set on "stun."
Weapon is "set to stun" when the shoot Princesss Leah... If I hear "Set to stun" Star Wars is the first thing I think of...

9. The Enterprise needs a huge engine room with an anti-matter unit and a crew of twenty just to go into warp -- the Millennium Falcon does the same thing with R2-D2 and a Wookiee.
True.

8. After resisting the Imperial torture droid and Darth Vader, Princess Leia still looked fresh and desirable. After pithy Cardassian starvation torture, Picard looked like hell.
Wouldn't this suggest that Imperial torture is not nearly as effective as Cardassian torture?

7. Jabba the Hutt would eat Harry Mudd for trying to cut in on his action.
Uhh, ok. I don't think Jabba ever ate anyone.

6. Luke Skywalker is not obsessed with sleeping with every alien he encounters.
He should be.

5. One word: "lightsabers".
MMmk.

4. The Federation would have to attempt to liberate any ship named Slave I.
What's the point?

3. Darth Vader could choke the entire Borg empire with one glance.
If he could do that, why didn't he just choke the entire rebellion with one glance? Clearly he's not that powerful.

2. Picard pilots the Enterprise through an asteroid belt at one-quarter impulse power. Han Solo floors it.
That's cause Solo's a pimp.

1. The Death Star doesn't care if a world is class "M" or not.
The Death Star is an inanimate object and doesn't have feelings.

Would a lightsaber deflect a phaser?

I liked the show because it wasn't Star Trek like all the other shows. No prime directive and so on, but I think that was part of the problem msot people had. It had darker undertones tones than any of the other shows.

Ooh. I'm going to do this too:


kk

All stormtrooper rifles can be set to stun. It's sorta analogous to firing rubber bullets, though, since stun is amazingly painful and often lethal. Their weapons operate on a different principle.

The Enterprise? Which one? Enterprise-D is about 300 m shorter (in length) than an ISD, which has a crew of thousands (and a fusion reactor about 1/4 the total volume of the ship). The warp core is a cylinder about 2-3 m in diameter and like 18 m long. If you're talking about the Enterprise-D.
A Federation shuttlecraft or runabout can go to warp with a crew of... 1. Hmm. So can Star Wars starfighters, of course, so I'm guessing this argument is just a pile of retarded.

It's not a torture droid, it's an interrogation droid. It injects psychoactive chemicals into the target and its other functions likely involve lie detection and repeatedly asking questions. And Vader? Vader doesn't need to torture.

And the Cardassians didn't just starve Picard. They tried to break him completely. They stripped him of his clothing to make him feel like he's an animal. They hung him up by his wrists for hours. Instead of sleep, they gave him constant pain. They weren't trying to torture information out of him, they were trying to break him - and likely turn him into a double-agent.

Yes, he would. And Han Solo would sacrifice Okana to his dark lord.
Remember that episode of TNG where the Enterprise-D is chasing down a criminal? And he's really a super-soldier who cannot be detected with sensors and can selectively resist the effects of a transporter beam? Yeah, I'm thinking that he'd cause some damage in the Star Wars universe, that one.

No, just his sister.

Two words: 2 phasers from different angles set on sustained beam.

... no comment

No he couldn't. If he could, he would have taken down all of the ANH rebel fighters using his mind instead of hopping in his TIE.


Picard is captaining a gigantic starship which currently is not engaged in combat.
Han Solo is captaining a tiny cargo transport which is being chased by fighters.

Han Solo would never, ever, go into an asteroid field if he were not being actively pursued.


Well, it should, since it's a terrible waste of ammo to go after uninhabitable wastelands.

no thats why you fail

From a purely technological standpoint, I'd have to say that Star Wars > Star Trek. However, using this as a basis for comparison as to which is better is like saying that some trashy 50's sci-fi novel is better than Shakespeare because it has better technology.

But it's still fun to compare. Just looking at, say, warp/hyperspace enginers, SW is way ahead of ST. After all, the Millenium Falcon can cross the galaxy in a matter of hours/days. And then you have the Voyager. From a weapons standpoint, it's hard to tell without actually seeing a battle between the two. But I don't think anything in the ST universe ever destroyed a planet.

not true, there was the planet killer in TOS... it destroyed entire planets before it was destroyed by the Enterprise crew...

Not exactly true... Solo never crossed the entire galaxy... All the systems he travelled between were in the same sector, or close to the same sector. If you've played SW Rebellion, you'll know what I mean. If you try to go across the galaxy it takes a couple months or so...

Whoever tuned this into a ST vs. SW thread should be shot.

B & B

Brannon and Braga

No more words are necessary.

...

...

...

But I'm going to go on anyway:

Enterprise was better than Voyager, granted, but it just didn't have the flair or character development that fans wanted. No one became anything, no one did much of anything, and we all knew what would happen in 2-300 years anyway.

I never got to see the 4th season I only saw the opening "Nazi alien" episode... and I plan on either getting that season for christmas or buying it afterwards. Alot of people say it was the best in the series.

I have to admit, there was one episode of the 2nd season that I REALLY liked that involved a ship that was bigger on the inside than the outside, and various factions were attempting to get it, then there was a battle between the Suliban and the Tholians over the ship. That was one of the few GOOD episodes of the first two seasons.

Anyway...the reason it failed...lack of good storytelling, and thus, lack of viewers.

B and B later apologized for not getting around to develop certain characters at all after 4 seasons, saying that they "didn't have time :rolleyes:"

You mean KnightRider2000?

Yep.

Okay, fair enough. But it's still hardly 70 years.

I think the show failed because of weak storylines, characters, lack of developing potentially strong storylines, and just bad writing during the FIRST TWO SEASONS. The first episode was "eh." And then the rest of season 1 and 2 sucked. Horribly. No denying it.

And then season three got progressively better, and season four was actually really good. By that time, however, they had been crippled. People wouldn't come back to it, and the ratings just weren't going up. So it got axed.

Leave it to KR2K to toally change a topic around.

Take a look at this website:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/

It gives all my reasons why SW > ST. Like how it took Voyager years to travel what the Slave I did in about 8 hours. I know, we could debate till the end of time.

IMO, comparing Star Wars to Star Trek is like comparing Apples to Oranges. Sure, both shows take place in space but that is where the similarities END. Star Wars is a fantasy story set in space. Star Trek is pure sci-fiction. End of story.

That's true.

We're not applauding you for it, but the fact that you're proud of derailing a subject speaks volumes about your quality.


Stardestroyer.net is run by a man who has the effective debate skills of a toddler.

His analyses of ST vs. SW technology are accurate, but only in the crudest possible sense. Apart from his ability to profess understanding of tensor fields and basic chemistry, he rarely (if ever) reads or responds to actual comments, preferring instead to attack the subject or the user. By all accounts he's an idiot, and a simple (critical) visual assessment of the various movies and TV series demonstrates what he's saying, making his entire life about as valuable as a copy of the Star Wars Cross-Sections book.

Not if it was set to fire in spread mode.

Another reason Enterprise failed: naked vulcan chick who wasn't that hot to begin with.

LOL, it was a joke. Didn't actually expect people to give commentary on it the list. Anyway, that list was on the net, probably before JK ever existed.

And anyway, Star Trek, is well, I don't know, too black and white. There are no gray areas, no inner character stuggles, like Star Wars. The complexity of the characters are boring along with the prime directive. George Lucas, John Williams, and the rest of the Trilogy cast make a great team, greater than any shallow characters of Star Trek.

Oh yeah, don't forget, Enterprise was on UPN, not exactly the best of networks when it comes to good TV.

TNG kicks arse.

Actually, ST warp drives are FAR beyond SW drives....

The Falcon can go 1.5 or something times the speed of light... the Enterprise D can go 9.6 times the speed of light (isn't it actually closer to 9.8 or 9.9? it's been about 7 years since I last knew)


KnightRider: That list makes me chuckle