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ForumsDiscussion Forum → why did enterprise fail?
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why did enterprise fail?
2005-11-30, 6:24 PM #41
Originally posted by KnightRider2000:
And anyway, Star Trek, is well, I don't know, too black and white. There are no gray areas, no inner character stuggles, like Star Wars
You obviously haven't watched DS9. At one point Sisko, a typically honorable and by-the-books captain, arranges the assassination of a Romulan dignitary to force them into the Dominion War. Then he has to learn to live with his decision.

All of the character development in Star Wars happened during the last 20 minutes of RotS. The major character change was sudden and jarring, like, "Oh hey, I killed Samuel L. Jackson. Now I guess I'm evil. Grr."

Luke Skywalker was written to be as whiny and immature in RotJ as he was in ANH. It's a credit to his belligerance that we now have a calm and soft-spoken Luke, not because of Lucas' writing.
2005-11-30, 6:25 PM #42
the falcon making ".5 past lightspeed" doesn't mean it goes 1.5 the speed of light. Who knows what kind of measurement system they're using... Obviously not what you're suggesting, unless the entire SW galaxy is the size of one galaxy... that's rediculuos.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2005-11-30, 6:29 PM #43
I assumed that was what it meant... I can't find any explanation as to what it might mean
May the mass times acceleration be with you.
2005-11-30, 6:32 PM #44
Originally posted by darthslaw:
Actually, ST warp drives are FAR beyond SW drives....
Hehe... here it comes:

Quote:
The Falcon can go 1.5 or something times the speed of light...
No, it can go many times past the speed of light. Hyperdrives are rated by class. The Falcon has a 0.5-class hyperdrive, while an ISD has something like a 0.8-class hyperdrive. The lower the faster, but the lower you go the less stable it is. Hyperdrives transit the vehicle into what is essentially another universe, although that "universe" is affected by gravitational fields in realspace.

Quote:
the Enterprise D can go 9.6 times the speed of light (isn't it actually closer to 9.8 or 9.9? it's been about 7 years since I last knew)

The Enterprise-D's maximum speed is about Warp 9.6, yes, but the TNG warp scale isn't linear. Warp 9.6 is approximately 1,906 times the speed of light.
Voyager's max speed is something in the area of Warp 9.975, which means they (technically) could have crossed the galaxy in 17 years, but they probably didn't have the fuel to do so. Also, the Voyager writers actively chose to ignore all of the STTNG technical information.
2005-11-30, 6:44 PM #45
Here's some interesting info... stuff

Quote:
Source
Hyperdrive apparently (hopefully!) uses some sort of extra-dimensional space-folding technology, since Han comments that his ship is only capable of ".5 past lightspeed". 1.5c would be insanely slow. (The novelisation has him saying "point five factors beyond lightspeed.") Notice that he also refers to making the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs, which is a distance, not a time or speed. (It should be noted, however, that the script has the following to say about that line: "Ben reacts to Solo's stupid attempt to impress them with obvious misinformation.")

So obviously Solo has no idea what he's talking about :p :p :p
May the mass times acceleration be with you.
2005-11-30, 6:49 PM #46
Originally posted by darthslaw:
So obviously Solo has no idea what he's talking about :p :p :p

No, the Kessel Run can't be taken at faster-than-light speeds, because it's a long and weaving course through a quagmire of black holes. Typically an Imperial-sanctioned transport would complete the Kessel Run by going around the black hole cluster the long way, but smugglers like to hug close to the cluster to avoid patrols. Even better pilots go through the cluster, hopping from Lagrange point to Lagrange point, meaning Han Solo was able to complete the Kessel Run in a far less circuitous route.

This was intentional when the script was originally written.

Edit: Warp drive is the extra-dimensional space-folding FTL technology. Hyperdrive is just extra-dimensional - no space folding about it.
2005-11-30, 6:54 PM #47
Originally posted by darthslaw:
So obviously Solo has no idea what he's talking about :p :p :p


Naw, he just was trying to impress Kenobi... the way you might tell someone that your computer has 1.21 Jiggawatts of ROM (ever done this before? It's hilarious)

Plus he modified his own hyperdrive himself; hopefully he knew what he was doing.
Stuff
2005-11-30, 7:08 PM #48
except his hyperdrive never works... :p
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2005-11-30, 7:20 PM #49
Ah yes. Enterprise failed because Han solo didn't know what he was talking about when he stated that his hyperdrive could go past .5 lightspeed.

I mean...this isn't a Star wars vs star trek debate.

I mean... er.... lightspeed...is better than... warp...speed.

erm...

Oh yeah, enterprise failed for alot of reasons. I think IGN got it right in their assumption that Brannon and Braga simply didn't bring any fresh writing or perspective to the show, thus making it stale and uninteresting. It's like trying to praise your term paper without having someone proofread it and tell you how much it sucks.
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2005-11-30, 7:34 PM #50
Good points, Jon C. Although I don't agree, it's nice to have an argument without lighting the thread on fire (something that has happened a lot lately).
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

-G Man
2005-11-30, 8:15 PM #51
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2005-11-30, 8:44 PM #52
Originally posted by Jon`C:
You obviously haven't watched DS9. At one point Sisko, a typically honorable and by-the-books captain, arranges the assassination of a Romulan dignitary to force them into the Dominion War. Then he has to learn to live with his decision.

All of the character development in Star Wars happened during the last 20 minutes of RotS. The major character change was sudden and jarring, like, "Oh hey, I killed Samuel L. Jackson. Now I guess I'm evil. Grr."

Luke Skywalker was written to be as whiny and immature in RotJ as he was in ANH. It's a credit to his belligerance that we now have a calm and soft-spoken Luke, not because of Lucas' writing.


Did they actually assainate a romulan? I don't remember that, I remember them forging a holographic recording... The romulans had a treaty with the Dominion and Sisko forged a holo recording of a dominion meeting saying they were going to break the treaty and take resource rich romulan worlds. The romulans, convinced that the Dominion was going to invade in mere months joined the war effort on the Federation side, massivly boosting the war effort, instilling new hope and morale and giving the dying federation a last hope.
The Gas Station
2005-11-30, 8:48 PM #53
Garrack planted a bomb on his shuttle. Sisko wanted another solution, but knew it wouldn't happen. He was ok with it.
Pissed Off?
2005-11-30, 9:31 PM #54
The senator figured out that the hologram was a forgery and was taking it back to the romulans to show them the Federation treachery. Garrack had always intended to blow up the shuttle - the hologram would have NEVER passed muster, but after going through the bomb, any defects in it would have been blamed on the explosion.

It was a brilliant plan actually. And no, Sisko wasn't okay with it. if Garrack had told him the whole plan he never would have gone through with it. The only reason Sisko didn't kill Garrack is because the plan worked.

And yes, that is my favorite DS9 episode. It asked the question of whether or not the ends justify the means. What price is too high for peace. A beautiful episode.
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