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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Grading curves.
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Grading curves.
2006-01-30, 1:17 PM #1
Damn. I have one teacher that, for a curve on exams, takes the highest grade, find the difference between that score and 100, and add that difference to everyone's grade. I don't think that is great at all. If everyone does bad and one guy (or a few) manages to get a good score, shouldn't the curve help most of the people a bit better? Bah.

What would be the best curves for teachers/professors to use for exams and such? I like curves that give the lower grades slightly more points than the higher raw scores, but that depends on the difficulty of the exam. Is there a formula to use for a good curving?
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2006-01-30, 1:29 PM #2
Bell curve for the win.

It's like outrunning a cheetah: you just have to run faster than your friend, not the cheetah.
2006-01-30, 1:30 PM #3
[QUOTE=Lord Kuat]Bell curve for the win.

It's like outrunning a cheetah: you just have to run faster than your friend, not the cheetah.[/QUOTE]
Hahah, exactly.
D E A T H
2006-01-30, 1:57 PM #4
I dont think curves are fair at all, and i dont agree with teachers that do them.

as much effort i put into studying and time i spend writing and researching papers, i dont want people who dont put any effort into it to get the same grades as i do. C's D's and F's are ok for people to get, and if thay want to change it, thay should study more and work harder at it, not get "free" points added.

on a larger scale, i think degrees become less credable (and generally have less worth) becasue of these practices. and this lessons the help that having a degree will ensure me a good, intelectual job in the future.

and on an even larger scale, i dont think our society needs have the standerd that collage degrees be standard to get good jobs.

[eh.... that's all confusing, and i problly misspelled too many words, but i'm still not going to use the spell check, me=lazy today]
Laughing at my spelling herts my feelings. Well laughing is fine actully, but posting about it is not.
2006-01-30, 2:03 PM #5
Originally posted by Elana14:
I dont think curves are fair at all, and i dont agree with teachers that do them.

as much effort i put into studying and time i spend writing and researching papers, i dont want people who dont put any effort into it to get the same grades as i do. C's D's and F's are ok for people to get, and if thay want to change it, thay should study more and work harder at it, not get "free" points added.

on a larger scale, i think degrees become less credable (and generally have less worth) becasue of these practices. and this lessons the help that having a degree will ensure me a good, intelectual job in the future.

and on an even larger scale, i dont think our society needs have the standerd that collage degrees be standard to get good jobs.

[eh.... that's all confusing, and i problly misspelled too many words, but i'm still not going to use the spell check, me=lazy today]


Except that curves have nothing to do with their merit--they're designed to catch any of the shortfalls of a specific teacher in a lesson. If everyone gets a 60-80, then obviously the teacher did something wrong and so he/she should go back, re-cover the material but raise the grade. Personally, I think the most fair curve is the kind Echoman hates, but that's just me :p
D E A T H
2006-01-30, 2:08 PM #6
ap "curves" (scale) are generally very welcome
一个大西瓜
2006-01-30, 2:30 PM #7
Where I am, it's generally tiered, so that 80%+ is an A, 70%+ a B, etc. to 40% an E and then anything worse is a fail.

That's how they do it for A-levels. No matter how hard the paper is, unfortunately. :F
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2006-01-30, 2:39 PM #8
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Except that curves have nothing to do with their merit--they're designed to catch any of the shortfalls of a specific teacher in a lesson. If everyone gets a 60-80, then obviously the teacher did something wrong and so he/she should go back, re-cover the material but raise the grade. [/QUOTE]

Too many teachers use this, too often. Overtime, this will (and does) inflate grades, and cause people to pass, where maby thay should not have passed at all.

and i have never had a teacher to re-cover material in any class (elementary school excluded). so if teachers use it like you say there designed to, then yes, perhaps curves would be fair. Too often teachers just curve to make there students happy, or to make there staticts better, but not to boost students grades becasue thay think thay suck at teaching while trying to re-cover the material.
Laughing at my spelling herts my feelings. Well laughing is fine actully, but posting about it is not.
2006-01-30, 2:43 PM #9
I like bell curves. :)
Keeps the fail rate for my program at around 10%/term... it'd be way higher without them.

The average on my last term's Physics midterm was a 55 (after they bell curved it up).
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2006-01-30, 3:22 PM #10
I'm a teacher and I don't curve anything. If you can't make a decent grade, it's your own fault, because I practically spoonfeed you everything.

Bell curves suck, btw. I remember my Organic Chemistry prof graded on a bell curve, and if everyone made 70% or better on the test, it was still the top 3-5 that made an A, and the lowest 3-5 that made the D's and F's. That's just wrong.
"Harriet, sweet Harriet - hard-hearted harbinger of haggis."
2006-01-30, 3:24 PM #11
Originally posted by Elana14:
Too many teachers use this, too often. Overtime, this will (and does) inflate grades, and cause people to pass, where maby thay should not have passed at all.

and i have never had a teacher to re-cover material in any class (elementary school excluded). so if teachers use it like you say there designed to, then yes, perhaps curves would be fair. Too often teachers just curve to make there students happy, or to make there staticts better, but not to boost students grades becasue thay think thay suck at teaching while trying to re-cover the material.

I've had every teacher that's ever curved anything re-teach the lesson.
D E A T H
2006-01-30, 3:31 PM #12
Originally posted by Elana14:
Too many teachers use this, too often. Overtime, this will (and does) inflate grades, and cause people to pass, where maby thay should not have passed at all.

and i have never had a teacher to re-cover material in any class (elementary school excluded). so if teachers use it like you say there designed to, then yes, perhaps curves would be fair. Too often teachers just curve to make there students happy, or to make there staticts better, but not to boost students grades becasue thay think thay suck at teaching while trying to re-cover the material.


I had a Calculus class where the average score on the midterms was 40%. Had there been no curve, over half the class would have failed. When that many people are doing that poorly, it's a result of the teacher ****ing up. Students should not be punished for that.

If a teacher is doing his/her job properly, the grades will have some sort of bell curve to them, and no grade curving will be needed.
Pissed Off?
2006-01-30, 4:22 PM #13
Quote:
Too many teachers use this, too often. Overtime, this will (and does) inflate grades, and cause people to pass, where maby thay should not have passed at all.


If everyone flunks out, which would often be the case, the school would make less money. I've had classes where 90-95% of the class would fail without a curve. I dislike them as well, but the reality is that they're here to stay.
2006-01-30, 4:30 PM #14
Originally posted by Avenger:
If a teacher is doing his/her job properly, the grades will have some sort of bell curve to them,


*buzz!*

Wrong answer. If the teacher is doing his/her job, there won't be any D's or F's.
"Harriet, sweet Harriet - hard-hearted harbinger of haggis."
2006-01-30, 4:33 PM #15
Originally posted by Echoman:
Damn. I have one teacher that, for a curve on exams, takes the highest grade, find the difference between that score and 100, and add that difference to everyone's grade. I don't think that is great at all. If everyone does bad and one guy (or a few) manages to get a good score, shouldn't the curve help most of the people a bit better? Bah.

What would be the best curves for teachers/professors to use for exams and such? I like curves that give the lower grades slightly more points than the higher raw scores, but that depends on the difficulty of the exam. Is there a formula to use for a good curving?


I've been known to blow a curve or two.. :p

If everyone does bad..and one guy manages to get a good score - it sounds like the others should've studied harder. ;)
woot!
2006-01-30, 4:33 PM #16
Originally posted by Chewbubba:
*buzz!*

Wrong answer. If the teacher is doing his/her job, there won't be any D's or F's.


You can't really teach students who don't care.
woot!
2006-01-30, 4:37 PM #17
Damn, she's got some nice curves. A+!
2006-01-30, 4:41 PM #18
Originally posted by Chewbubba:
*buzz!*

Wrong answer. If the teacher is doing his/her job, there won't be any D's or F's.



No, because there are always people who won't give a **** and not do the work. Or people who do a half assed job.
Pissed Off?
2006-01-30, 5:06 PM #19
Something else you guys aren't taking into account is a learning disability among students. No matter how hard some students try, they may not get the best grade. Also, some brighter students will undoubtedly get the same grade without much studying as a hard-working student. If everyone in a class fails and one student gets a 90, that probably doesn't mean he's the only one who studied. It's more likely to mean he's friggin smart, or at least a work-a-holic, and there are numerous other factors in there as well.
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2006-01-30, 5:12 PM #20
Originally posted by Daft_Vader:
Something else you guys aren't taking into account is a learning disability among students. No matter how hard some students try, they may not get the best grade. Also, some brighter students will undoubtedly get the same grade without much studying as a hard-working student. If everyone in a class fails and one student gets a 90, that probably doesn't mean he's the only one who studied. It's more likely to mean he's friggin smart, or at least a work-a-holic, and there are numerous other factors in there as well.

I think you'd be surprised. It usually means he's the only one in the class that studied/did everything. But regardless, teachers have more than one class to take this data from.
D E A T H
2006-01-30, 5:50 PM #21
Originally posted by Avenger:
No, because there are always people who won't give a **** and not do the work. Or people who do a half assed job.


And yet, I'm required by "No Child Left Behind" to make sure that those students who don't give a rat's a** learn regardless. Welcome to my world.
"Harriet, sweet Harriet - hard-hearted harbinger of haggis."
2006-01-30, 6:13 PM #22
Ahh bell curves...I got a C in Probability when I only had about a 30-40% for my grade :P
2006-01-30, 6:30 PM #23
Originally posted by Chewbubba:
And yet, I'm required by "No Child Left Behind" to make sure that those students who don't give a rat's a** learn regardless. Welcome to my world.

Trust me, I'm sure me and Avenger both think that bill sucks. Well, if I know Avenger at least.
D E A T H
2006-01-30, 10:40 PM #24
Originally posted by Echoman:
Damn. I have one teacher that, for a curve on exams, takes the highest grade, find the difference between that score and 100, and add that difference to everyone's grade. I don't think that is great at all. If everyone does bad and one guy (or a few) manages to get a good score, shouldn't the curve help most of the people a bit better? Bah.

That's not a curve. That's free marks. :p
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2006-01-30, 10:44 PM #25
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Trust me, I'm sure me and Avenger both think that bill sucks. Well, if I know Avenger at least.[/QUOTE]


It doesn't get at the root of education problems, which are social issues, not educational issues.
Pissed Off?
2006-01-30, 10:47 PM #26
I have yet to have a professor grade on "a curve". Typically, though, when the exam is in the form of multiple choice, the professor will throw out any question with an extremely low success rate (<25% correct responses, but it varies). The students who answered correctly will recieve the points still, similair to "extra credit" points, but if it was incorrectly answered, it will not be held against the grade. That accounts for any lack of proper instruction, while still being entirely fair.
2006-01-30, 11:06 PM #27
Seeing as how I'm almost always one of the people who benefits the most from a curve, I say bring 'em on. Almost all of my compsci professors have used em so far. :)
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-01-31, 12:38 AM #28
Should be the points scored by top student becomes 100%. This is the best way to protect students from inept instructors.
2006-01-31, 12:49 AM #29
Uhh, can someone enlighten me to the educational purpose of these curves?
If a pupil didn't learn what he was supposed to learn in class, he fails and has to do it again. If it's the teacher's fault he should try to get into another class.
Grades are there to give you an indication of how well you have grasped what the class was about. They're not there to make you feel better or tell you how good you are in relation to the others.
Sorry for the lousy German
2006-01-31, 1:06 AM #30
Originally posted by Impi:
Uhh, can someone enlighten me to the educational purpose of these curves?
If a pupil didn't learn what he was supposed to learn in class, he fails and has to do it again. If it's the teacher's fault he should try to get into another class.
Grades are there to give you an indication of how well you have grasped what the class was about. They're not there to make you feel better or tell you how good you are in relation to the others.


This logic assumes that:

A: All intructors are perfect, and

B: In the event they are not, you can immediatly get into another class of equal value tought by a different person.

Neither of these hold up. Teachers are human, and often times we have no alternatives to classes due to jobs or availability. Not to mention often times public high schools or middle schools do not allow you to simply switch or drop a class like that.
2006-01-31, 1:17 AM #31
I don't believe in the curves system. All it does is give the dumbasses in the class a break and makes the smart ones feel like they waste time and effort in actually doing well. People should get what they deserve. If the whole class does poorly and a few do well, too bad! If you can't handle the class, drop out. Otherwise, get your *** in gear and make the effort needed in order to get a good grade.
The cake is a lie... THE CAKE IS A LIE!!!!!
2006-01-31, 2:03 AM #32
Originally posted by Dash_rendar:
This logic assumes that:

A: All intructors are perfect, and

B: In the event they are not, you can immediatly get into another class of equal value tought by a different person.

Neither of these hold up. Teachers are human, and often times we have no alternatives to classes due to jobs or availability. Not to mention often times public high schools or middle schools do not allow you to simply switch or drop a class like that.


True, but even with a bad teacher the student can still just sit down, open the books and learn.
Sorry for the lousy German
2006-01-31, 4:54 AM #33
Originally posted by Impi:
True, but even with a bad teacher the student can still just sit down, open the books and learn.


Well, yes. But the teacher's role is to take the material from the textbook and apply it in the course that the students understand. Alot of material from the textbook wouldn't make sense to the students without the help of the instructor. Not only that, but teachers often expand on certain topics in course. If a certain exam, especially an AP, that is used throughout schools, or atleast throughout the classes in the department, does contain stuff that the classes did not cover or really expand upon, that's a problem. Then there are issues of "free-response" questions and what exactly the teacher is looking for vs. what is written in a book.

If the only way for a student to learn in the class is from the textbook (and not from the teacher), then that's a big problem.
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2006-01-31, 5:42 AM #34
Originally posted by SavageX378:
I don't believe in the curves system. All it does is give the dumbasses in the class a break and makes the smart ones feel like they waste time and effort in actually doing well. People should get what they deserve. If the whole class does poorly and a few do well, too bad! If you can't handle the class, drop out. Otherwise, get your *** in gear and make the effort needed in order to get a good grade.

Not really. If you do well, you get a higher grade, and if you do really well you get an A. I don't consider that "wasting my time and effort", I consider that better than a B or C. Though, then again, I'm not one of those that's ever benefitted from the lower end of a curve...so hey.
D E A T H
2006-01-31, 6:34 AM #35
My teacher just raised everyones grade ten points. Thats nice for me, but means almost nothing to the people that scored 19%and 23%...
2006-01-31, 6:46 AM #36
As far as I can tell, my degree program uses bell curves in such a way that moderation up is far more likely than moderation down. Moderation up is used quite frequently on the really tough modules, but moderation down is usually only used if people are somehow achieving high percentages whilst clearly demonstrating a lack of understanding. There isn't an automatic formula applied to results to ensure a nice range of results but rather it's done on a per-exam basis.
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2006-01-31, 6:46 AM #37
Originally posted by Elana14:
Too many teachers use this, too often. Overtime, this will (and does) inflate grades, and cause people to pass, where maby thay should not have passed at all.

and i have never had a teacher to re-cover material in any class (elementary school excluded). so if teachers use it like you say there designed to, then yes, perhaps curves would be fair. Too often teachers just curve to make there students happy, or to make there staticts better, but not to boost students grades becasue thay think thay suck at teaching while trying to re-cover the material.


Are you in college?
2006-01-31, 7:11 AM #38
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Trust me, I'm sure me and Avenger both think that bill sucks. Well, if I know Avenger at least.[/QUOTE]

Nay, I'm with you on that one, but more for economic reasons (overconsumption + values).

The only large curve I can remember in my HS experience so far has been during a Geometry exam, where the median grade was like a 40. If you got a 40, you ended up getting an 80.

What a lot of my teachers have seemed to do is, and they will say this too us at the start of the year, is to make REALLY hard tests, but grade easy. So far, it's been working well in Econ class.
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2006-01-31, 8:41 AM #39
My math prof. right now considers an 80 to 100 an A. He says that it's because his tests are harder than other professor's tests.

:confused:
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-01-31, 9:21 AM #40
In a British university, anything over 70% is traditionally a first (the highest possible classification).
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